Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Theoryofrelativity, May 12, 2006.
deleted in protest of poor moderation
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Atheist don't need to convert anyone. They merely don't want theists to impose theism on atheists or other theists.
Well, some of them don't want that. Some not. Atheists are not a coherent group with an agenda.
There are plenty of other forums around that deal specifically with religion, christian, hindu, buddhist etc. There are other forums that deal with science without a religion section. So yea - why bang yr head against a wall here..
I am sure there are no conversions, but I think there is an increased understanding of others point of view i.e. what makes them tick. not necessarily a bad thing for anyone..
thats not possible
yes two theists, that I know of, M*W and southstar, both came to their senses here on sciforums.
i was an atheist before i came to sci
I don't think that is the purpose of this forum. I'm new here, but exactly what attracted me is the possibility to discuss religion from a more philosophical standpoint.
Actually, this debate has been going on for thousands of years.
I can't speak for everyone, but I personally don't intend to convert anyone. The point of arguing with someone who disagrees with your points of view is not to convince them you're right, but checking where you could possibly be wrong. And I can't possibly do that if I talk with like-minded people.
It is possible. I was an atheist for over half my life, I converted to theism (albeit pantheism).
It has to be said though, that was nothing whatsoever to do with this website / or any other.
So geeser states its not possible for atheists to convert to theism...............so no such thing then as 'new born christians' that's a made up term, oh and weren't we all born atheists? Geeser, don't make statements as if they are fact when you are blatantly wrong.
Spurious, plenty of atheists here frequently try to convert people to their way of thinking, they do it by informing theists they a e 'stupid', 'retard' and all manner of insults oh and then there are the 'arguments' that 'prove' God does not exist, what is this if not attempting to 'sway' (perhaps you feel more comfortable with that term?) the audience in their favour.
And you'll see these arguments being shot down with equal fervour by atheists and theists alike, either as being illogical or being limited in scope to one specific concept of God.
EXACTLY! So why after a few threads all dedicated to the same theme with identical responses getting exactly knowhere does it continue????? With all the same game players????????
Wow, I wouldn't have thought it would have been possible for M*W to convert to atheism..
That explains a lot. I only superficially browse the relgion forum lately and was always thinking: what's wrong with M*W? She saw the light.
Oh look , an atheist using a theist expression...........happens a lot apparantly
What is the point of this forum?
Surely rational discussion in an adult mature way between people on important subjects (and I believe a belief in God or otherwise is important) is always worthwhile. Thiis sort of discussion is what freedom of thought, freedom of speech and freedom or reilgion (or no religion) is all about.
We should count ourselves all lucky or blessed (dependent on theological view) that we can participate in such, without fear of some action being taken against us, as would be likely under repressive regimes, be they religiously based or atheistic.
Statistically the more people who contribute, the more likely people's views may well be swayed or even changed one way or the other. Everyone who reads the forum may not have a totally fixed view and we shall know very little about that if they only read rather than contribute!
It is sad that often people do not read others' views and consider them, but merely contribute a slightly different version of their own personal prejudice.
It is sadder still when people have so little rational argument to contribute that they resort to personal abuse or insult.
As for knowledge and attempting to convert people, there is an argument (clearly not universally agreed) that people are born with a desire of some sort of relationship with God (or gods) but whatever the truth of that, in knowledge terms we are all born agnostic. We have no factual knowledge until we are taught it or learn it for ourselves.
In the modern western world, naturalistic atheistic views of the world are taught and often with the latest paradigm quoted as 'proven scientific fact'. So there is pressure to make people atheists and often to do that in an intellectually dishonest fashion. This is without counting such blatant anti-Christian fictional stories as the 'Da Vinci Code' being blatantly masqueraded as fact.
On the other side of the coin, we know that Islam requires by its own ideology coversion by submission (using force if necessary). On the other hand christianity which does not have such an intrinsic message is used by those who would call themselves 'Christians' as an excuse for all sorts of actions which I am sure Jesus would find totally abhorrent. People often do not follow Christ because of 'Christians' and I would urge people to consider whether that is rational and logical or not.
That said it is clear that the knowledge that many atheists have of Christian belief and doctrine and the contents of the Bible is to put it mildly somewhat thin. This often makes discussion about Christians and Christianity from their side based on a completely inaccurate impression of the true facts.
People are changed by rational discussion and logical consideration. C.S. Lewis became a Christian that way as did a much lesser person - myself!
So let's keep the discussion going but let's not believe that people are stupid or worthy of insult because they espouse any particular position. This is just not so!
kind regards to all,
Obviously I used the expression 'saw the light' on purpose.
Usage of the words 'god dam, light, jesus fuck' etc does not imply the believe in god. Did someone lose faith when they say 'darn it'? Nope.
Because people raise new twists on the same theme, possibly to try and establish their own thinking more clearly, or possibly to understand the limits of their philosophy.
If beliefs can't stand up to scrutiny then surely one must try to understand the weaknesses, and the strengths, so that they can clarify within themselves.
So many here put their beliefs (either for or against) up to the test.
Some people are content with the result of that testing and go away with a renewed understanding and confidence in those beliefs.
Technically, this is a science forum and my interpretation is that the topic of religion is intended to be discussed from a science standpoint. As you have correctly noted, that not what happens.
I have several good reasons:
1) Each argument / collaboration might yield an opportunity to learn more about human behavior.
2) The diversity of thought process provides furtile grounds for testing psychological and sociological hypothesis without participants realizing they're part of an experiment.
3) Knowing the thought process of both 'believers' and 'non-believers' intimately makes it easier to see where the poles are and where the weaknesses / unknowns are.
4) Sometimes people learn things and change their thought processes.
5) This is a public forum and it's content contains a wealth of information that offline viewers can draw from and use in potentially concrete ways.
6) Participation in the forums helps improve a person's debating skills.
7) Sometimes you have an opportinity to develop relationships with some great people.
Yes, I've seen it happen both ways.
'eat my shorts'
I think by playing devils advocate here I can get you lot to confess your mutual 'need' for each other at least!
(atheists and theists that is)
strangely enough,so was I, lol.
what a coincidence.
sorry, you may have been non-religious, deist or agnostic, anti-theist, but certainly not atheist.
non-religious does not necessarily mean atheist, atheism is not simple non-religious.
there are some who say they are atheist that dont really understand what an atheist is, (these are usually the religious, trying to make a point.)
sarkus put it this way in regard to someone else, saying the same thing
so you see it is an impossibillity.
those are non-religious, who've found again.
yes, We are all born atheists til our parents or priests abuse us with the religious mind virus, atheism is the natural way of things we are born without any believe in a god, your the one whos diversified into fantasy.
atheism is individual, atheism is what you are, before religion has taken hold, nobody who has been atheist from birth or rediscovered it/cleared his head, would go back to being religious not without the use of drugs or getting brain damage.
when the religious aledgedly see the light it's purely imaginary, however when an atheist sees the light it's reality smacking him in the mouth, it's true enlightenment, that's a huge difference.
We do often talk among ourselves visit here:
Now check out these above forums and see how many idiotic religious nut jobs go in there discusing and selling their wares.
As for boards like this one it's open for all comers, so topics seem to look alike often here in religious forum of sci, it's an ongoing debate since the first hallusinating cave men believed in gods, and few saw different.
Separate names with a comma.