Surviving Disaster

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by kmguru, Jun 16, 2002.

  1. kmguru Staff Member

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    11,757
    Assume in 2012, something major happened to this planet that disrupted the government, knocked out the power supply, oil and gas flow. The duration is one year. And it is a worldwide event. The air is clean. Banks and internet shutdown. No electricity. You can use small generators but gasoline will be empty in a few weeks and the army will have barely enough to sustain themselves. So you are basically to a barter system. The military and national guard will be used to maintain peace because looting and lawlessness will breakout mostly in cities.

    Under this scenario, what one needs to do to sustain small communities until supply chain is restored?

    For power, I am thinking fuel cell (2012), Solar Cell and alcohol generators. That should keep my computers, freezers going for a while.

    For food: Dry goods such as beans, wheat or flour in sealed containers etc. Canned goods...

    Communication: Rechargable walkie-talkie? Shortwave radio?

    Let us discuss....
     
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  3. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    I'm lucky enough to live on a farm, set between two bays full of fish. No food shortage. And we have horses, good for getting around, maybe earn some extra goods from people by carting stuff around for them.
     
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  5. orthogonal Registered Senior Member

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    579
    For the past 16 years I've made all my domestic electricity from a small hydroelectric turbine located on my brook. We have an array of photovoltaic panels to carry us through the dry season. This provides all the power we need for lights, refrigeration, radio, computer, etc.

    We've a large organic garden and save a good deal of our seed for the following year. My wife and I hand-dug a thirteen foot deep root cellar which has proven invaluable. Root crops survive the winter in this northern climate with little spoilage. We have a composting toilet system in which everything goes back to the land that we take from it.

    I grow rye and buckwheat in rotation on a hillside. The grain is sythed and threshed by hand. The sythe is a beautiful tool. I purchased a (left-handed) hand-forged blade from Austria and made my own snath by splitting out a White Ash tree. I turned the handles from a wild-cherry limb that fell in a storm. The sythe fits my body perfectly. I carry the sharpening stone in a little belt case filled with water. I stop every five minute to resharpen the blade. Contrary to common notions, the sythe cuts in a gentle whooshing, rather than a hacking motion. The razor sharp blade can drop a swath of rye as neat as you please, yet with a flick of my wrist I can leave a stand of wild flowers. A sything motion comes from the hips more than from the arms. Well, you get the idea, I love my sythe. Each week I grind the flour for our bread and pancakes using a very heavy Danish-made hand powered grain mill.

    We make large crocks of sauerkraut with our cabbage. I'm presently building an apple and cherry orchard. Unfortunately, deer found and chewed to the ground all of my my apple seedlings this past week (my grafted sour cherries survived however). Likewise, the flea-beetles and grasshoppers have nearly mowed my plantings of carrots and Swiss chard to the ground this spring. The peas, blueberries, and gooseberries are flowering though. The potatoes are up. I had to replant the cabbages, I think this cold damp spring weather rotted the seed in the ground. My fifty tomato plants are doing very well despite the cool weather, I suppose the plastic tunnel helped a bit.

    Still, I'm happy there is a natual food co-op in the nearby town. I doubt if we could reliably survive on the produce of even this large garden, year after year. Oh yes, my wife makes all our food from scratch. I've not tasted commercial soup from a can, or any sort of prepared food at home in many years.

    For ten years my wife and I cut all of our firewood for the house and for making maple syrup using a five foot long, two-man hand saw. They cut incredibly well if one learns the fine art of sharpening and setting the cutting teeth and rakers. Men in the 19th century nearly clear-cut the entire Northeast using these saws. These tuttle-tooth saws are very efficient tools.

    All our neighbors hire plows to remove the snow from their driveway. My wife and I shovel everything by hand. We live in the snowbelt. Often the snow banks are well over our heads. Shovelling snow is not nearly as enjoyable as sything, for example, but at least it comes at a time of the year when there is little or nothing to do in the garden.

    Exclusive of health insurance and taxes, we live very well on less than one hundred dollars a week. As for hobbies, my wife exchanges her labor for studio time in a neighbor's pottery studio. She also enjoys making our clothes and she does a bit of quilting. As I've explained before, my hobbies cost nearly nothing. I mostly enjoy reading, but I only own 8 books (mostly mathematics texts). I see little need to own a book when we are surrounded by wonderful libraries. One major expense is travel, this varies with our mood from year to year.

    We built our house with our own hands. I did all the plumbing, electrical work, etc. The only thing I contracted out for the entire house was to have a concrete finisher on hand the day we poured the slab foundation. The money I saved in labor I used to puchase better building materials: polished granite window sills, mahogony windows from Germany with stainless steel hardware, a clay tile roof, one foot thick insulated masonry walls, a heating system from Germany, etc. One advantage of designing and building everything is that I now know exactly how to maintain and repair everything.

    This life is incredibly satisfying. Yet the most important thing I've learned in my quest for self-sufficiency is that it isn't possible. I've given up trying to do everything for myself. Now I simply do what I enjoy, or what is the most economically reasonable to do. No man is an island. I rely upon my neighbors, and they upon me. My relationship with my community is worth more than all my homesteading skills combined. I don't believe I can stress enough the value of a good community.

    Well, that's as much of my story as I care to write, and likely more than you care to read at the moment.

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    Michael
     
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  7. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    How very interesting, orthogonal. I came very near doing much the same. I had studied a lot of how to's, everything from building solar hot water heaters, to log cabin building, to farming by hand and tool building. I never did the rest of it though.

    To save your deer ravaged vegetation you may build a fence with sort of ledge outleaning towards their entry point. It tends to put them off from jumping over what they can normally go over.

    It sounds as if you are very happy. I wish you the best...
     
  8. orthogonal Registered Senior Member

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    579
    Thanks Wet1,

    I've no one to blame but myself about the apple trees. I had the chicken wire sitting in the garden shed still on the roll. A lot of good it did me in the garden shed

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    In my last attempt to start seedlings, I had mice girdle the bark and kill the trees over the winter. I'd put the mulch too close to the tree trunks in the fall, making a nice mouse nest for them to bed-down under the snow. It's funny, all the seedlings have been chewed down to the little mouse collars I was careful to install this time

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    I would be some clever if I could learn more than one step at a time.

    Regards,
    Michael
     
  9. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    8,616
    Ahhhh, welcome to the world of trial and error. If wishes were fishes we would all have an ocean.

    I live where the "garbage man" comes to collect the leaves and limbs that fall with the seasons. It is so crazy. They want it this way one time of the year and that way at another time of the year. I finally said screw em. If you put it out on the street by the time it is picked up you have shared the leaves with your neighbors. For a good many years I have had a compost pile. The limbs are chipped up for ground cover. The garabge man can find his business elsewhere.
     
  10. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    As for the original subject, Lay in enough soap, matches, sturdy pots and pans, learn camping skills. Lay in canned and dried goods and have a fine selection of hand tools. Sturdy work clothes and shoes. A good source of water, a gun with plenty of ammo and reload capabilities. (For food, not fighting an army) If you do not know how learn how to make natural traps, and how to clean and dress game. If you do not know learn how to cook using these materials.

    Also consider things like string, rope, tarps, ect. You can make a fine temporary refridgerator, by using a tarp and laying it into a hole dug in the ground. If you have ice then put the ice in and then make a fold in the tarp and make another layer over the ice. Lay in your goods to be kept cool and lay another fold of tarp over all.

    For instance, do you know how to keep the outside of your pots clean, cooking over a campfire? Use bar soap (without water) and scrub the outside of the pot. When you clean the pot with water the soot will wash away also. If you are packing stuff, always consider the weight to benefit ratio. After all you are going to tote it, why tote what you will not use? Like cans. If it can be gotten dehyrated don't take cans. They are heavier, they are uncomfortable if they hit against the body, and you wind up doing something with the trash...
     
  11. orthogonal Registered Senior Member

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    579
    Wet1,

    I hear you abou the leaves and such. BTW, I'm trying out a technique that I only recently read about. The Europeans call it Hugelkultur (hopefully I've remembered the name correctly). The idea is that they don't waste anything, which appeals to my Yankee frugality (read: cheapskate). They make a big pile of their weeds, leaves, and branches, put an inch or so of soil over it, and then plant potatos and squashes on the pile. The idea is that the composting weeds release nitrogen which squashes especially love.

    So, a couple of weeks ago I cleaned up a hillside of raspberry weeds (our most common weed in this area). I made a pile about 8 feet in diameter and 3 feet high. I jumped on it a bit and then my wife screened about 2 inches of soil on it. She planted two pie pumpkins, a summer, and a winter squash. Also, she planted two spare potato eyes. In the middle she put down an extra tomato plant. It will be interesting to see how it does.

    Michael
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2002
  12. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    8,616
    This form of farming is more typical in sandy soils. It is used more for the moisture retaining capability in that moisture will not stay in the soil without some sort of assist. One of the side benefits is the nitrogen releasing but it is slow as unless you turn the soil no free oxygen is there to speed the process.

    You may reduce the work you do in turn a compost pile by inserting pipe with holes drilled in the sides. Most piles will not develop enough heat to work unless they are a minimum of three feet high. Moisture must be controlled. During rainy season, dome the pile. During dry season cup the pile. I use concrete reinforcing mesh to keep my pile tidy. When it is time to roll the pile, I peel off the wire and set it up next to the pile and rehook it together. Then I turn the pile into the portable container.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2002
  13. orthogonal Registered Senior Member

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    579
    Yes, the book specifically mentioned the advantage of moisture retention, though that's not looking like a big concern of mine so far this year

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    The pile has heated up to just over a hundred degrees. My only concern is that I don't cook my seeds before they sprout.

    Did you ever read the book or see the series on PBS called, The 3,000 Mile Garden; From London to Maine-A Correspondence on Gardening, Food, and the Good Life,by Leslie Land, Roger Phillips? This fellow Roger Phillips actually slow-cooked a big piece of meat in his compost pile. He then had a garden dinner in which he served this meat along with his vegetables, etc. I thought the idea was cute, but a bit iffy. I mean, a compost pile at best can do about 160 degrees F, mine never seem to get that hot, they peak at about 130 to 135 degrees F. I'd think the meat would have been quite rare

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    Michael
     
  14. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    I agree that it does sound iffy. Myself, I like a good charcoal fire. Preferably a smoker. Ah, I can hurt ya with one of those. Any time kids want seconds over desert you know you did something right...

    I still have some how to's. One particular good set is called Foxfire. It is a series of books that tell how to do things by old traditions. It was started in the 60's era for communes and is a series of thick books on how to do everything from making sandels to growing stuff, to tanning, and soap and candle making, and right on through a list of necessary skills for self-sufficency. I do not know if it is still in print.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2002
  15. tomhanks Registered Member

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    12
    we believe that we can surviving disaster,maybe we total right in 2012,we human can get over the disaster in the future.

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  16. X-Man2 We're under no illusions. Registered Senior Member

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    Speaking of leaves my Dad has 14 acres he bought when we were kids,so he could be closer to his Dad.I remember the corn and beans always looking anemic due to the crappy sandy soil.Anyway he contacted the city one year to see if they needed a place to dump the leaves and wood chips that were picked up in the fall.They were happy just to have a place to dump for free.Dad did this for about 5 years always working the leaves and wood chips into the soil,slowly but surely the soil began to become fertile again.Now he rents out plots for gardens to the foreigners who come here from Thailand and Burma.

    My Grandpa also used the leaves and chips to build up low flood prone ground.
     
  17. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    Civilization has become dependent on fossil fuel. Most of the poorest countries are net food importers so this will be hardest on them. Civilization will completely break down, there will be violence, and hundreds of millions will starve.

    Fortunately for us Americans, the USA is a net food exporter, but it still won't be easy to get the food from the Western wide open spaces to the Eastern cities. We might see another "Dust Bowl" migration since it will be more resource-efficient to move the people from Massachusetts to Colorado once than to move the food from Colorado to Massachusetts every week.

    Of course the people in Liberia and Burma will figure this out too. They may be able to cobble together some sailing ships and come to our shores carrying all the guns they could find. Or maybe to the shores of Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina and Chile, which are also knee-deep in surplus food and don't have quite so many guns of their own.

    In 1999 I was one of the many software engineers drafted (in many cases dragged out of retirement) to sift through billions of lines of computer code to fix the Y2K problem, which the previous generations of managers had not bothered to do because it would be somebody else's problem.

    I was assigned to work with a state justice department, and the assistant attorney general called me in for an urgent meeting. He didn't want to talk about code remediation, he wanted to talk about worst-case scenarios. He asked if I thought his plan of building a bunker around his department's computing center, complete with living quarters for the families of all the employees, had any flaws.

    I asked him, very carefully, why he wanted to build it. He said that if there were widespread shutdowns due to unremediated code, the people from the rural areas were going to descend on the cities to ransack their grocery stores.

    I asked him, even more carefully, why he thought they were going to do that. He said it was his job to keep track of patterns of gun buying in the state, and he noticed that gun sales in rural areas had skyrocketed.

    At this point I couldn't keep myself from laughing, which was not very diplomatic, but it sure got his attention. Mrs. Fraggle and I live in a rural area and we knew what he was talking about, but he completely misunderstood it.

    I explained that if every grocery store, restaurant, vending machine, company cafeteria and private pantry in the city was completely stocked, the city would have enough food to last about one week without new deliveries. At that point the city dwellers would fan out into the rural areas where all the food is grown. The country folks were buying guns to defend themselves.

    (And yes, Y2K was real. We managed to get all the most critical systems remediated in time so there were no stalled elevators and insulin packages without expiration dates. But lots of less important software went crazy in 2001, like my bank's mortgage systmem which never sent out a correct statement for all of 2001--which BTW apparently had thirteen months. The immense outpouring of appreciation and gratitude you all bestowed on us for working our butts off to save your butts really made it all worthwhile.)
     

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