Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by kmguru, Dec 31, 2008.
Yet it works with the same principle; 1's and 0's.
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I have several issues with the whole obsession of creating a computer with "an imagination". First, what one individual prizes in his/her self as highly imaginative, I may call psychotic delusions of grandeur. Second, why torture a machine with the very emotive qualities that scientists who expound this issue, as if it were the "second coming", are everyday deriding as weakness in the human being. Third, do you have recorded documentation of your own ability to utilize the entire "calculator" that is your own brain or are you really looking for neurological Cliff notes(sp? sorry, i have never used them.) ?
For me at least it is in the defining of the words super intelligence.
For example if we look at two types of intelligence, and I am sure there are many more types.
1] The calculator computer type which is esssentially rehashing already known methods and deriving outcomes that coud be derived manually if time permited in other words - the time saver intelligence.
2] Then you have the sort of intelligence that with imagination can take these time saver intelligences and create even mor effective time saver intelligences or even apply those time savers to things that would never have been thught of originally by those creating the time saver intelligences.
Could deriving the square root of say 339 be considered as intelligent by a machine that does it
as it was designed to do repeating the smame function time and time again.
Is this inteligence or is it the mind that designed the calcuator wth the factors neeeded to derive the result desired.
So IMO super intelligence must include imagination and creativity other wise it aint all that intelligent at all....
? What is the purpose of this for a "poster"
"Some say every moment of our life is stored in memory. I don't think any machine will hold that much information. A single frame (I read somewhere) is equivalent (to some degree as they work in different ways) to 576 Megapixel - biggest cameras are to the extent of 10 Megapixels.
If each frame in memory is as detailed as one frame in realtime I won't speculate though.
We are still superior to most machines in many ways." - Cyperium
"Pussy control...." sorry to use such a crass fragment from a song to make a point, but can a computer, truly, tell you, the observer/"peeping tom" of my actions at that moment of history why I was there emotionally, what I experienced in life (the emotional moments in life always changing) that made my individual experience come together into a decision to let another female grind upon my leg as sweat poured down my forehead, grinding and thinking to myself without "total" remorse and as a baptized "Christian" in a tank by a Southern Baptist minister, "God, I am going to hell." And what of the time afterward? Will your "memory machine" really be anything other than a peeping Tom voyeur suited to reinforce the belief systems of the user/creator of the machine?
"Superintelligence may use a human mind, or a human equivalent mind constructed artificially, as a basis; but it will include things like a vast and infallible memory (Turing himself would have failed on that account, if you took away his paper and pencil), the ability to imagine complex geometry and other types of abstract maths (and more importantly use that conceptualisation in pattern recognition and decision making), the ability to understand increasingly complex arrangements of parts (to quote your essay) and perhaps most importantly of all, the ability to examine and audit its own internal thought processes. Such self-knowledge and auditability is something which could take thinking to a whole new level." - eburacum 45
How is it possible for a computer to "self reflect" or to become introverted and learn based on anythng other than a mathematical miscalculation. The "complex arrangement of parts" are what make us human and more important, an individual life.
Silicone chips, is there any toilet paper?
"Perhaps a group of human minds working together is the right path even though like our government, empty minds could be in the decision making roles...then what you have?" - kmgurua
Let me tell you a story, of the semiotic alphabet. Were you to confess of already having this knowledge, then either the site is an intellectual rights infringement, or a fraudulant draw for who knows what, or you, Kmgura, are sitting with your fingers crossed in case of having published a false publication attached to your name in one of the "respected" medical journals, in order to gain prestige and scholastic recognition.
Meanwhile, back at the bat cave, JN I oddly hope that you are not dead as I had read recently, and if you are even willing to return back into the light, is this intellectual poser who I reply to , really an example of your legacy, an unfeeling prodigy, and the possible future dictatator of the legacy of your continued biofusion research?
"Superhuman Intelligence, Super Absurd?
I posit that it might be impossible to be smarter than a human"- kmgurua
I apologize to the originator of this thread. My last post attacks emotionally, without even "hearing" the originating point of view. I am very emotional about these technologies and the plausible deniability that is allowing their abuse in non-concentual human effects testing that is being conducted. The "throw aways" or rather the victims' legal appeals for investigation, are openly denied any plausibility based on the denial of the technological capability's existence anywhere , much less in the United States of America right this moment.
Superhuman intelligence is not intelligible to humans...
Superhuman intelligence is not intelligible to humans because man is an entity of limited intelligence.
At least for the present.
Why? Because up to the present man cannot explain everything that so far up to the present man has come across.
Cannot explain with his knowledge so far and his intelligence of the kind that is seated in a brain made up of cellular tissues.
For example, evolutionists try to explain everything about evolution as the process for the appearance of the varieties of species; but if they are honest they have to admit that in their theory of evolution, no matter how smart they think they can and have explained evolution they must admit that there are still mysteries that cannot be explained in the light of their explanations of evolution theory.
That is the same situation everywhere where man's intelligence seeks to explain things: at the end of the day there are still mysteries which defy the explanations man with his intelligence has made for explaining the things he does claim to have explained.
What man can do is to create a machine or anything even not called a machine, that can do anything man can think up which man can see to be in accordance with his knowledge and intelligence, although not within man's unaided capability.
For example man cannot survive in outer space because of the absence of oxygen in outer space and the almost vacuum condition there, but he can produce a machine that can house him as he goes inside that machine to outer space.
This machine is what we now called a spaceship.
Can man produce a machine which man in his present knowledge and intelligence sees to be impossible to produce, owing to intrinsic impossibility?
Like what? Like a machine that does not have to depend on energy from outside the machine itself in the long run?
What man can do is work on what he knows at present to be impossible and figure out how to make it possible, then make a machine to achieve what he then knows to be possible whereas before he does not.
But there is really a superhuman intelligence, God, for Whom there are no mysteries.
That is why in the Christian faith it is taught that the purpose of man is to be united with God, then man will be completely knowledgeable about all mysteries which are at present mysteries to him, because with God there are no mysteries.
Sad to say, scientists today have inhibited themselves from all thoughts about God as creator of everything, whereas scientists of the past like Newton did not ever imagine that God can and does stand in the way of science.
That is one what I call self-inflicted allergy of today's scientists with an atheistic mind and heart.
Actually, I heard of a person that could do amazing calculations to a number of decimals.
top videos Cyperium....and it is interesting that he managed to aquire his ability once he left highschool and not before...hmmmmm
That's nonsense. People with average intelligence are perfectly able to understand the concept of people that are of 'super-average' intelligence.
I guess studying numbers at an early age may create a seed that is subconsciously grown into these kind of abilities. What is left alone is dealt with and to sort out the meaning of potentials might give this kind of ability.
The problem for that Guy I think was that the methods he was destined to find were being constantly hindered by the limiting methods being taught at school. He simply could not use an inferior system or method which is why he kept failing maths at school and why his ability managed to be revealed once he left the culture of mathematical dogma...ahhh such is the life of genius [ specialised genius in this case]
lol, yeah you're right Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
True genius, I'm glad he didn't put up with them thinking he was savant - he knew better.
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That is not true. Anyone who has a IQ point of less than 15 points from the other would be able to semi-understand the other when the other uses that full IQ points. But over time, when that new thought has permeated the society, then the lower IQ person would accept but still have difficulty understanding.
Case in point - theory of relativity, Blackhole, warping of space-time etc....
Practical case in point - China's economic strategies with the West that our people do not fully understand. (they are smarter)
I am of limited intelligence. What are you talking about? Please state in English at a tenth grade level.
"I am of limited intelligence. What are you talking about? Please state in English at a tenth grade level." - per Kmguru
On a tenth grade level, I am not even sure that I present any oratory even on that level any more. Let me give you some "tenth grade" homework.
The article is called "Images of Mind: The Semiotic Alphabet", and I find it important in this discussion because the knowledge imbued in a computer program must first originate in the human mind.
Probably on the level of tenth grade reading for you. Unfortunately, I do not even have a GED.
Do not worry, that guy is not even an engineer. These days snake oil salesmen are very high tech. He was aptly a marketing guy. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
"Do not worry, that guy is not even an engineer. These days snake oil salesmen are very high tech. He was aptly a marketing guy." - per kmguru
John Norseen is an or was an engineer at Lockheed Martin who created the concept of Biofusion if you will just Google his name. If you know of other "snake oil salesmen" please point me in their direction for my further research.
Lockheed Martin is who pays their own marketing bill. (?)
as to the original post - it is impossible to comprehend superhuman intelligence as none of us posses it - much the same as infinity hence the title "the singularity". the largest hurdle in ai to human crossover is still in the mechanics... we dont think using binary - not to mention the previously stated fact that all information transfer in cpus and networks is grossly inadequate to the minds and is created as a solvent by man. replication is all were doing now - i think it is impossible for man to create superhuman intelligence - however if we create a true ai with the capabilities of a supercomputer i think it entirely capable of thinking outside the human aspect and pushing the next technology to super levels.
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