Superconducting Photons via Atomic Oort Zones

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by bradguth, Jun 26, 2004.

  1. blackholesun Registered Senior Member

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    636
    From the article:

    "What is shocking is that such an effect has been observed for the first time without a great deal of attenuation, amplification or distortion of the pulse. It appears as though energy has, in fact, travelled faster than light.

    Of course, this is not the case. The effect observed at NEC only works in the presence of an amplifying medium, i.e. a medium that stores energy. In this case the energy is stored in the pump-laser beams. The caesium atoms are prepared in a state that allows them to transfer energy from these beams to the signal beam. The faster-than-light propagation occurs because the pump beams preferentially amplify the leading edge of the incident pulse, lending power to the signal and being repaid by absorbing some of the energy in its trailing edge. (It is important to note that even the dramatic 60 ns advance is only one fiftieth of the width of the pulse.) This is exactly analogous to the intuitive explanation of normal dispersion, except that in this case the atoms temporarily amplify the light pulse rather than absorb it. "

    And:

    "Although relativity emerges unscathed from these experiments, our understanding of exactly which velocities are limited (or not) by c continues to evolve. And even though neither energy nor information is transmitted faster than light in experiments like the one at the NEC, it has already been proposed that the effects may one day be useful in compensating propagation delays in electronic systems."

    So relativity prevails and this only seems to work in controlled environments under the proper conditions in a prepared medium.
     
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  3. bradguth Banned Banned

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    OK. so what's your point?

    In spite of what you seem to know for a fact, and that I'm either unwilling or simply unable to understand; in as much as I believe others and myself do realize that a photon superconducting environment isn't the norm, nor even all that easy to create. Although, if the spinning of such extended atomic Oort zones can in fact induce other photon packets into exceeding the speed of light, and if those other photons can be of a quantum (FM) nature of packet that'll deliver a given message at perhaps 310 times the speed of light; as such it seems like a perfectly good sort of thing for our photon wizards to being involved with, especially if there's any notion of our ever communicating with whatever is outside of our solar system.

    Besides your rather obvious stance as that of unwillingness to accept upon the notions that there's any such other life worth humanity going after, nor communicating with;

    Are you stipulating that within some nullification zone that such conditions are not proper, or could not be manipulated into becoming proper?

    Would it not be perfectly terrific notion as to having a photonic transponder situated roughly 8% of the distance towards Sirius, just to try out a few things?

    Or, perhaps we'll only need to establish and sustain a photon beam towards Sirius, as after all, such a photon beam would certainly be far cheaper and one heck of a lot faster at arriving to a given nullification zone that's roughly 0.7 light years away from Earth.

    Regards, Brad Guth (BBCI h2g2 U206251) http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-photons-m3.htm
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2004
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  5. blackholesun Registered Senior Member

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    First off let me give you a difinition:

    su·per·con·duc·tiv·i·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spr-kndk-tv-t)
    n.
    The flow of electric current without resistance in certain metals, alloys, and ceramics at temperatures near absolute zero, and in some cases at temperatures hundreds of degrees above absolute zero.

    You're using the term very wrong.

    Second if you won't reexamine your own beliefs of how physics and photons work, then we can't help you. Your beliefs are odd. And I'm sure pretty most everyone here agrees with me on this fact. The truth is photons travel at c. No more, no less. The NEC experiments prove a fact that you can mess with the group velocities of light but that no energy or information are passed in the process. It's like having a pattern traveling faster than light. No one unit of the pattern process is traveling faster than light and hence the effect is useless for communication purposes (for example a lighthouse spinning a light so that its beam sweeps through a rotational pattern at plus c velocities)

    Third, I believe life exists outside our earth...perhaps in oceans on europa for instance...maybe even intelligent life somewhere else in our galaxy. But I DON'T agree with your conclusions of lizard life on Venus or life at Sirius (we have no reason to belive that there are even planets there). I'm sure pretty most everyone here agrees with me on this fact as well.
     
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  7. Boris2 Valued Senior Member

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    >>>>nodes of atomic Oort zones

    which are what exactly?
     
  8. bradguth Banned Banned

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    blackholesun;
    about Superconductivity "You're using the term very wrong"

    "Second if you won't reexamine your own beliefs of how physics and photons work, then we can't help you"

    "Third, I believe life exists outside our earth...perhaps in oceans on europa for instance...maybe even intelligent life somewhere else in our galaxy. But I DON'T agree with your conclusions of lizard life on Venus or life at Sirius (we have no reason to belive that there are even planets there). I'm sure pretty most everyone here agrees with me on this fact as well."


    Thanks for trying to get my three remaining dyslexic brain cells back on track about "Superconductivity", of which I do realize that I over-utilize analogies, and as such I'm a bit more confusing than folks that already know all there is to know, such as yourself. I do believe that photons seem to be efficiently conducted through the vast expanse of space, with darn little loss in energy or associated mass/energy, thus if that be the case, isn't this notion of efficient conductivity within the definition of what a superconductor is all about?

    Perhaps there's a proper word/phrase that is related specifically to super-conduction of photons?

    Second) I'm not always convinced that you're actually trying to help, although I've learned a thing or two from what you've attempted to deliver, so perhaps you're merely a halfbreed borg.

    Third) It's good to hear that Earth is not all there is.

    BTW; why not Sirius?

    Couldn't a Venus like planet have made a tough go of it, at least up until Sirius/b got involved?

    Or, perhaps Sirius/c came along with the demise of Sirius/b?


    Boris2;
    >>>>nodes of atomic Oort zones

    Sorry about that analogy. Actually I'm badly extrapolating upon the extended notions of what the coulumb influence is all about, as I was just previously wondering if there was but one atom/m3, if in that case the coulumb zone of influence would take full advantage of that amount of empty space, somewhat expanding it's atomic influence, in a manner similar to the Oort zone that influences a great deal of matter that's outside of a given star or star system.

    If the zone of influence expands, and if photons offer such slight mass, then perhaps photons attempting to conduct themselves through such an expance of 1 atom/m3 could do so. Or, if that's not possible, then perhaps that's one method of said photon packet coming to rest.

    After all, if there's but one atom/m3, there's not all that much external gravity influence to being had. Such as within a given nullification zone is where such few and far between atoms might not sufficiently conduct those photons.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2004
  9. bradguth Banned Banned

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    If your GR/QM photons are those of absolutely nothing whatsoever, not even if there are trillions upon trillions per m3 (resting or not), as opposed to a few atoms/m3, then I have the following question;

    What's the realistic Terminal Velocity of Space Travel?

    I'm speaking of actual physical stuff, such as for a craft that's displacing 1000 m3, whereas such, how fast is fast enough?

    Obviously at 3e8 m/s * 1e3 = 3e11 m3/s being displaced, and obviously that's either expecting way too much, or of simply requiring way more energy than any 1000 m3 craft could possibly muster.

    It takes energy as to displace your way through that many m3/s, through a substance that's perhaps containing as many as 1e6 atoms/m3.

    So, of what's possible without our having to utilize anything in the twilight zone?

    Can the likes of a sufficient laser/plasma cannon give us 50% LS?

    If so, then what's the amount of energy/m3 as for driving and sustaining 50% LS?

    Since many of you keep insisting that you know all there is to know about such things, perhaps you'd care as to share in the notions of our capability of transporting ourselves through said expanse of space, or perhaps otherwise as to utilizing that of a laser beam that's creating all those spinning atomic Oort zones reaching all the way out to a given point of nullification, such as the 0.7 light year distant one that's situated between us and Sirius, and from that established photon conduit or waveguide we might then utilize Dr. Wang's 310X packets as to communicate with the likes of whomever is still associated with Sirius.

    Or isn't interstellar communications permitted by the space-time-continuum of this forum?
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2004
  10. bradguth Banned Banned

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    In spite of all the warm and fuzzy flak from certain "sciforums" members, I've made some limited progress on the notion of photon-mass, and of how may of them photons might actually coexist/m3; http://guthvenus/gv-photons-m3.htm

    Though I'm still in a world of hurt upon understanding them nearly resting photons that could be the bulk of dark-matter or perhaps even dark-energy.

    It's also become interesting for noticing out of all of the hundreds of topics posted, and of all that wide range of categories, in that at any one time there's hardly anyone viewing, whereas as I know for a fact that moderators of scifourms.com don't count as viewing or even as per posting their replies, thus the entire forum is essentially devoid of the public, and otherwise skewed as though it's functioning as another ruse like "uplink.space com".

    It's almost as though "scifourms.com" already knows all there is to know, but isn't willing to share.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2004
  11. bradguth Banned Banned

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    "What's the Terminal Velocity of Space"
    DwayneD.L.Rabon
    http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=38220
    This kind soul offered some interesting words of wisdom, suggesting upon all sorts of photon speeds.

    "the event that has to be paid attention to is that with each AMU in the atom results in a gain of light speed. this means that Lead in its atomic structre travels some 207 time light speed as opposed to Copper which travels at 63 times light speed."

    Thus why is there even an argument as to the speed of a photon?

    What if we never had Einstein nor Plank; then what (would nothing work)?

    And, I believe that you wizards still haven't offered a specific number upon the maximum quantity of photon/m3?
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2004
  12. 1100f Banned Registered Senior Member

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    The photon being a spin 1 particle, there is no limitation to the number of photons/m^3.
     
  13. bradguth Banned Banned

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    Thanks for that feedback; "The photon being a spin 1 particle, there is no limitation to the number of photons/m^3"

    That's sort of what I thought, though oddly not being offered by way of those other all-knowing souls.

    Now, can you help define the potential mass that's capable of being associated with a given photon?
     
  14. 1100f Banned Registered Senior Member

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    807
    For all particles there is a relation between energy and momentum: E<sup>2</sup> = p<sup>2</sup>c<sup>2</sup> + m<sup>2</sup>c<sup>4</sup>.
    Knowing the energy and momentum of a particle, we know its velocity being given by: v = pc<sup>2</sup>/E.
    For light, v is equal to c so that you find that for light the relation between energy and momentum is E = pc.
    Putting this relation in the first equation, you get that the mass of the photon will fulfill the equation: p<sup>2</sup>c<sup>2</sup> = p<sup>2</sup>c<sup>2</sup> + m<sup>2</sup>c<sup>c</sup> ==> m = 0.
    The photon has no mass.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2004
  15. bradguth Banned Banned

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    Therefore, I'm to believe that a photon of whatever spectrum and/or level of energy (AM/FM "modulation") can't be affected in any way by any amount of gravity, thus apparently "black-holes" do not exist, and perhaps "dark-matter" is equally nonexistent?

    Being that there's trillions upon trillions more of said photons than atoms, and if that's not an absolutely Godly sort of quantum thing that's entirely unaffected by all there is, then what is?

    Surely this zero-mass photon dump-truck must be capable of being associated with some slight amount of mass?

    If in fact mass can be converted into energy, and that into a nasty beam of photons, then where's the mass?
    -
    It seems that at least NEC/Wang have managed to demonstrate and sufficiently document their somewhat photonic superconductivity of creating such a photonic waveguide, thus when introducing another quantum photon pulse/bit at point A, whereas in fact at 310X of your so called constant(c), there's an unexpected delivery of that very same quantum packet arriving at point B, as in way ahead of schedule.

    Thus I was just wondering, if that waveguide alignment of such spinning atomic Oort zones were extended out to somewhere just past the nullification zone between us and Sirius (roughly 0.7 light year), that perhaps such 310X packets might subsequently be flung-off the end of this waveguide as to continuing their journey of atomic influence zone to zone FIFO hand-offs onto Sirius. Of course, if nothing goes faster than your precious "c", then obviously there's no point, and the likes of NEC/Wang should be summarily burned at the stake.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2004
  16. bradguth Banned Banned

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    Apparently, the problem here isn't so much about the perceived speed of light itself, as all sorts of folks seem to have proven that photons generally do not travel at the ultimate velocity of "c", but instead as influenced by their surrounding medium (even within the near vacuum of space, in our case that's mostly a hydrogen based environment) may travel or conduct themselves at something less than "c", therefore I believe such zero-mass photon dump-trucks can associate themselves with hauling about a slight amount of mass, while those of a super charged zero-mass photon status, such as the quantum string like packets, of which NEC/Wang has kicked up to 310X (c), offers proof positive that all is not limited to the perceived velocity of "c".

    Bad but workable analogy;
    If a string of extremely fast runners were trekking all-out about a given track, one situated directly after the other, and if the last runner was handed an even faster capable frisby and instructed as to pass off that frisby to the next guy in front of himself, and so on, until that frisby is being flung off into space by the first runner of the pack; isn't that frisby having to travel faster than of any one runner?

    The same poor analogy could be suggested for that of a bullet (if we excluded gravity and terminal velocity issues), or a laser beam comprised of those nearly zero-mass photons, although them runners had better be already making 0.5 "c" before handing off anything photonic as a FIFO packet delivery, as otherwise what's the point?

    Obviously electrons require that copper or some other conductor to pre-exist, and perhaps the 310X quantum packet is going to require that photonic waveguide to pre-exist. So, what's stopping us from creating such photon waveguides, such as out to a given nullification zone?
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2004
  17. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    Blah. I don't think you're really interested in learning anything. You keep bringing up Wang's experiments at NEC, even though you obviously don't have the first clue what they're about.

    Wang's experiments:
    -Do not allow information to be transfered faster than light
    -Do not violet the theory of relativity in any way
    -Were merely demonstrations of effects that had already been predicted a long time ago by the theories of modern physics.

    You've been told this repeatedly, yet you keep bringing them up as if they're something that they aren't.
     
  18. bradguth Banned Banned

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    Nasor,
    If in fact the NEC/Wang team measured and thereby communicated absolutely nothing whatsoever at 310X c, then why did they even bother as to invest so much, and to subsequently report upon something that according to your GR collective insist is of absolutely no consequence whatsoever?

    It seems your interpretation of what's communication and of what's not is clearly what's at risk.

    Why are you folks so afraid of what's faster than light speed?
    -

    Supposition-101 (photons do not travel)

    Since photons are NOT particles, though perhaps perceived as acting like near zero-mass dump-trucks that are capable of hauling or perhaps transfering other photons and/or slight amounts of mass about, as such, perhaps a cubic light year worth of somewhat resting photons might actually represent a fair amount of mass, especially since there's trillions upon trillions more of them than atoms, especially as situated between star systems, and of only more so photons than atoms as existing between galaxies.

    BTW; a gravity wave is in fact another photon, though of a rather low frequency, and thus representing quite a long wavelength.

    A photon is not necessarily in any physical sense a traveling sort of thing, as it could just as easily be a form of photon-to-photon hand off of instructions. Like electrons entering a copper wire, whereas the conductor provides a sufficient FIFO chain or alignment of atoms for accommodating the initial electron event, by way of eventually shedding off an entirely different but nearly identical electron out the termination point of that wire, whereas a photon utilizes the individual atomic zone of influence of atom alignments as its FIFO node of conduction/transport, by way of informing the next photon in line as to being of whatever frequency and of whatever amplitude.

    This is not to be suggesting that one can not possibly make the individual photon travel, as at least it seems reasonable to suggest that it is possible of an original photon to in fact being the arriving photon. Although, if there is already trillions upon trillions more available photons/m3 than atoms, as such it might seem a whole lot more energy efficient if the original photon/packet were merely to instruct the next photon(s) into transferring the intended message, as why expend great amounts of energy and risk running yourself into a relatively massive atom if you don't have to?

    Thereby, space itself might essentially represent a relatively thick soup of mostly photons that are nearly resting, including a good number of active photon packets functioning as being transferred to/from whatever atom to atom zones of influence, though obviously as not actually having to penetrate the inner core zone of an atom because, that sort of interface would be extremely detrimental to the photon, if not representing a lethal photon point of termination.

    Equally, if there are simply too few and thereby far between atomic Oort zones to permit any FIFO of a given packet of photons, perhaps this is where a good number of said photons come into nearly resting, formulating a collective of such photons that have essentially nowhere to go and of nothing to communicate, or rather a deficiency or entire lack of FIFO means by which to communicate.

    Photons can be given further instructions, on the fly sort of speak, by way of utilizing specialized atoms, such as those atoms formulating a mirror. Thus instead of being absorbed (terminated), the specialized atomic Oort zones of the atoms formulating a mirror effectively redirect the majority of the original stream or alignment of photons into being diverted.

    There are few things in nature that can manage to redirect/reflect photons as well as artificially aligned atoms of aluminum. Although, at somewhat lower frequencies of the visual spectrum is where retro-reflector formulated atoms (natural or artificial) can achieve a good percentage of redirection without losing too many of the original photons. A retro-reflector of pure diamond would be relatively efficient.

    It seem that a laser beam is merely an alignment of spinning atoms, formulated by photons, by which photons are transferred or communicated along.

    NEC/Wang seem to have created such a waveguide of aligned atoms, which spin their atomic zones of influence in a manner that permits other introduced packets to actually being amplified into communicating at 310X light speed, and they're not the only ones accomplishing this "faster than light speed" deliverance of any given photon or perhaps quantum string like packet. Thus, it is clearly possible to establish the initial photonic superconductor as a waveguide, by which other packets can be introduced and subsequently handed off at 310X c, or roughly 930e8 m/s.
     
  19. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    6,230
    I love the way you just assume that research must be "of no consequence whatsoever" simply because it doesn't allow us to communicate faster than light.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    NEC is conducting the research because it might lead to new, more efficient methods for transmitting data with optics, which is a business that NEC is involved in. If you don't believe me, maybe you would believe Dr. Wang himself? He has his own web page about his research at http://www.neci.nj.nec.com/homepages/lwan/faq.htm . Here are some select quotes:
    Now did you follow all that?
    It has nothing to do with 'fear'. We don't doubt that things can go faster than light because the idea scares us. Indeed, every physicist would love to be able to come up with a way to travel faster than light, since it would mean instant fame and fortune for whoever did it. Most physicists are simply aware of the vast body of evidence that indicates the impossibility of faster than light travel.
    No. That is an absolutely incorrect explanation of Wang's experiment, and it indicates that you don't have any understanding of what Wang is actually doing. A single pulse of light (like the one that Wang used in his experiment) is composed of the sum of the sine waves of all the different frequencies of light that make up the pulse. When light is diffracted through a transparent material, the higher frequency light is usually slowed down more than the lower frequency light, which causes a change in the shape of the overall pulse

    Wang's experiment involved arranging a medium in which low-frequency light would be 'delayed' more than high frequency light, the result of which was to cause the wave front of the pulse to emerge earlier than it normally would have.
     
  20. bradguth Banned Banned

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    Thanks for your informative feedback,
    "Wang's experiment involved arranging a medium in which low-frequency light would be 'delayed' more than high frequency light, the result of which was to cause the wave front of the pulse to emerge earlier than it normally would have."

    Again, I believe that's still indicating that a sufficient alignment of spinning atoms, such as those conducting and/or accommodating as a laser beam or establishment of a photonic waveguide can carry and/or communicate something other that is capable of being deployed a great deal faster than the perceived "speed of light".

    As NEC/Wang stated "The detailed reasons are very complex and are still under debate"

    Although, it seems a few others have accomplished their version(s) of exceeding "c", recreated their results and published their "how to" papers, much like the NEC/Wang efforts were reported. In light of what I'm gradually learning, I'll goto those efforts in order to see if there's something other that can best explain the notions that I'm having about using said photons for interstellar communications, preferably at obtaining speeds greater than "c", which actually should not be all that difficult for the sort of things having "zero mass".

    Your "the higher frequency light is usually slowed down more than the lower frequency light" supposedly this can't be possible, that is if in fact your precious photon represents absolutely zero-mass, and of one quantum string like dimension at that. You can't have it both ways. Though I'll suppose again that "the detailed reasons are very complex and are still under debate".

    Faster Than Light, Part II: The Quantum Connection
    http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue199/labnotes.html
    "Again, this was not a sleight of hand or trick of math: Nimtz actually broadcast Mozart's 40th symphony across a tabletop waveguide, and reconstructed on the other side an intelligible recording which had tunneled there at 4.7 times the speed of light. (Roughly 1 out of every 100,000 photons successfully tunneled across the barrier, a fraction which drops off exponentially as the barrier width increases.)"

    "at this point the universe's strangely predictable bookkeeping catches up with us again: the signal is carried by the tunneled photons in an "evanescent mode"--essentially the leading edge of a highly elongated photon."

    "A bit more interesting was the recent "slow light" demonstration, by Dr. Lene V. Hau of Harvard University. We've known for a hundred years that the speed of light is slower through solids and liquids than through empty space. The "slowest" natural substance is diamond, which bogs light down to about 0.4c, or 40% of its vacuum speed. But in 1999, Hau and her team went nature one better, using a cloud of ultracold sodium atoms, held in a "coupled" state by a laser beam, to slow the photons of another laser beam down to less than three meters per second. In subsequent experiments they were able to reduce this speed still further, until finally, last month, they were able to stop the beam completely."
    -
    Thus clearly photons can be "elongated", and if something as absolute and of "zero mass" as that of a quantum photon can be elongated enough as to deliver a message/packet at 4.7 times "c", then lo and behold, there's hope of something other being deposited off the end of a waveguide communicating those elongated tunneling photons.

    And, if other photons can be influenced as to being reduced to nearly resting at perhaps one meter per second or less (as in "zero speed"), then obviously the illusive photon offers all sorts of tricks up it quantum string like sleeves. And, since there's trillions upon trillions more photons lying about than atoms, it seems like there is sort of a light at the end of a potentially very fast quantum tunnel or photonic waveguide.

    Another offering of which looks and fells as though something has exceeded "c"

    Faster-than-Light Laser Pulses?
    http://www.npl.washington.edu/AV/altvw105.html
    "This leads to the next interesting question. Is the front velocity of an electrical or laser pulse always less than the velocity of light? Perhaps not. Prof. Günter Nimtz of the University of Cologne, whose microwave tunneling work was mentioned above, has new results that involve the tunneling of “evanescent” microwaves across a gap between two nearly-touching plastic prisms through which they are conducted. These recent results indicate that in this tunneling environment both the group velocity and the front velocity of a microwave pulse can exceed the speed of light."
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2004
  21. bradguth Banned Banned

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    As NEC/Wang stated "The detailed reasons are very complex and are still under debate"

    For another example of my interpretations; a relatively fast moving frame is the emerging endpoint or wavefront of a photonic waveguide:

    Like a few others kindly pointed out, clearly I had misinterpreted the NEC/Wang report pertaining to the 310X"c" performance. Although the original report and of many that followed made no point of specifying that their primary beam/waveguide was slowed to 9.67e5 m/s by way of energizing the Cesium-133 medium.

    Realizing that the experiment did in fact create a chain or waveguide of spinning Cesium-133 atoms, in which the primary beam of photons created a photonic activated waveguide, upon which a secondary pulse of photons/packets was introduced, in which they too had to endure/migrate the same environment as the primary beam, yet managed to emerge at nearly the velocity of "c", thus achieving the 310 fold improvement.

    This clearly demonstrates upon the notion that NEC/Wang did in fact create such a moving frame off the endpoint of an initial waveguide of photons, thus creating a relatively fast moving frame/wavefront of 9.76e5 m/s, from which endpoint emerged packets of photons traveling at nearly "c" regardless of the fact that those individual packets had to travel through the very same environment which had slowed the original beam to roughly 9.67e5 m/s.

    Since then, I've reaffirmed that through diamond light travels at 0.4"c" or 1.199e8 m/s, which is clearly indicating that the reduced velocity wavefront of such a beam traveling through diamond is in fact influenced by it's near-solid environment, though of still creating a moving frame that remains capable of conduction or delivering/communicating other packets at something of nearly "c" with respect to that of our originating frame of existence.

    Thus it stands to reason if the original wavefront or endpoint of such an alignment of spinning atoms (creating a photonic waveguide) were to be progressing along at nearly 2.998e8 m/s, thus offering a fast moving frame of existence that's clearly in motion with respect to our frame of existence, accommodating those secondary photon packets as introduced from our frame of existence would in fact become conducted as capable of their being amplified and accelerated to speeds much greater than "c", as emerging from the endpoint or wavefront of the primary beam.

    Of course, the next effort and/or technology required of detecting such fast moving packets is phase two, as it'll do us little good as to be creating such packet performance if we can't manage to detect the end result of what's being conducted and thus communicated at speeds faster than "c"

    Naturally, the Special Relativity borgs of the "mainstream status quo" are going absolutely ballistic over anything that's merely suggesting the dreaded thought of exceeding their precious "c". Of course, their photons seemingly have absolutely no mass whatsoever, regardless of their frequency or modulation, thus a 1e-3 hz packet will supposedly offer the exact same zero mass as a 300e12 hz packet, which is rather odd since other mass an/or energy can easily influence the progress of said packet, even block it altogether, and/or divert the path of a given packet, which is clearly suggesting that such a packet either has mass or that it hauls mass about (at least in the form of energy), as otherwise no amount of external mass should be capable of affecting the space-time-continuum of a given packet.

    Obviously photons (trillions upon trillions more than atoms) must coexist with atoms, and can only exist with respect to our frame of existence because of atoms.

    In deep nullification space there's supposedly as few as 1e6 atoms/m3, although there's no apparent limits as to the numbers of photons/m3 (active, resting or otherwise elongated), of which this near vacuum of space gives room for the individual atomic coulomb zone of influence as to expand into filling a ccm, whereas the orbiting velocity of the core atom/ccm is capable of offering any available photon a faster than "c" ride-through or super-conduction mode of capability because, the field of coulomb influence at such greater distance from the core atom is in fact having to travel at greater than "c", as otherwise the atom itself might otherwise cease to exist.

    I consider this ongoing argument a continuation of the "debate" of which NEC/Wang stated as such being the case.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2004
  22. bradguth Banned Banned

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    Again, it's not that I'm even close to being "all knowing", or even that I'm all that great at asking important questions, I'm just continually learning all sorts of nifty stuff on the fly.

    From: eshal (un ty@yahoo.com.au)
    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=a...-8&selm=3d51b6c7_1@news.iprimus.com.au&rnum=9
    (the speed of light - since that is what is spinning to form the particle)

    Spin frequency of electron = 1.236e20/sec

    "If we "load down" a photon (give it energy to increase its frequency) with the rest mass energy of an electron we get a photon with an energy of (since E=mc^2): 9.109e-31 kg x c^2 = 8.198e-14 joules. Dividing by Plank's constant we find the resonant frequency of this photon is: 8.198e14 j / 6.626e-34 j/sec. = 1.236e20/sec = photon resonant frequency."

    "The reason you haven't heard that much about this is because it completely contradicts Relativity and academia would rather believe Relativity than reality"

    OK folks, and of my fellow snookered humanity, it looks as though I'm not the only lose photon-cannon on the poopdeck of the good ship LOLLIPOP, as now I'm understanding why NASA/HQ and the other supposed institutions of higher standards and accountability have all of those enforced "NO SMOKING" rules, as with their having all of that intellectual flatulence as concentrated within their Special Relativity or Bust cults, as sure as hell if anyone dared to light up, as such their entire complex would be incinerated on the spot, if not obliterated or even blown clean off Earth, somewhat like an intellectual WMD not-so-smart bomb that's directly attached to a good number of soon to be sorry butts.

    Obviously there's something to being kindly said about the reality of what "eshal" has to share of "photonic energy to matter", and perhaps there's an even better reality of the ever expanding coulomb zone or outer shells of influence that'll yield upon the likes of what the NEC/Wang FTL outcome has suggested, as into a "c+" packet adventure that'll eventually make that LD call to Sirius in no time at all. Though obviously the likes of this incest "Skull and Bones" cultism isn't about to share their overflowing intellectual space toilet with anyone (thank God I'm up-wind).
     
  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    37,130
    bradguth,

    I think your use of the phrase "the Special Relativity borgs of the `mainstream status quo' ", along with others, just tipped your thread over the line into Pseudoscience.
     

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