snowflake, you can change the things that disturb you, but you can't free life of its fundamental absurdity: We eat to survive to be hungry and take a breath to be able to take the next breath, and we're born to be painfully aware that we sooner or later surely die. But, Empty Dragon and notme2000, these things aren't absurd at all. Your having been born is just another event of nature, like thunder or sunshine, and you wouldn't say the sound of thunder or the heat of the summer sun is absurd, would you? They are just there, period. I don't really want to convince anybody to give up trying to find the alleged meaning of life, but there's not much point in thinking about life as a whole, I think. It's like trying to find out how to stop the Sun with a naked hand or how to bottle the wind to store it.
I am not a suicidal gloomy person, actually. I have a strong passion for life. But my intellectual side can't ignore the absurdity of it all. Honestly, if life is absurd it doesn't empty it of it's fun, so why not just have fun with it?
its only absurb because the human mind cant quite (yet) fathom how it can possibly be... if you accept that then you can get on with enjoying it as a miracle
I'd say quite the oposite... I'd say the idea of a miracle exists only because the human mind can fathom it. Meaningless exists with or without us to deem it so.
definition of miracle: An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God (www.dictionary.com) that doesnt seem to me something the mind can fathom
Let me break down your definition... Appears to whom? Humans... Just because WE can not explain it does not mean we should attribute it to God. Held by us humans... Thus you see, the entire definition relies on us to be able to fathom it. Without us there would be no one to deem it inexplicable thus it couldn't qualify as a miracle...
all you are saying is that we can fathom the 'definition' of a miracle - not the actual cause of the miracle its self? life is a miracle to me because no one can explain why it happened - im just grateful it did. and until someone can explain it - i will attribute it to god. using your argument - i could equally say that life seems absurd to you because you havent happened to find a point to your existense. i have found a point to mine therefor i see it as a miracle.
Ahh but Notme how can meaningless exist out side a human concept. The concept of meaning it seems to me is human. So with out the human concept of meaning there is only what what is truely there. Point and absurdity is also a human concept. Once that is gone what is left but existance? The human mind decided how you will view reality, not reality itself. Whether it is viewed as a miracle or not, is irrelevant to what it truely is. Enjoy it for what it is. Many will try to enjoy it for what they believe it to be. Reality and belief are not the same. Believe may be based on reality but it is not reality itself.
ah but empty dragon - thats is what my point in life is - just to exist - and nothing else. and within my existense to enjoy the miracle of existance without hurting or taking anything away from others that exist that will inhibit their enjoyment of existense. that is the point to me
Suicide - I Am Troubled! Suicide...is it giving up? Is it brave? Is it foolish? Is it a proactive step to a next life? Recently, the daughter of a good friend of mine committed suicide. She was only 17 years old. She left no note and no reason. All I know about suicide is that literally hundreds of people, mostly under the age of 20 came to the funeral. The sorrow of these young people was incredible, even terrifying. I could feel the pain and confusion permeating the air. Was this young woman courageous in her act of taking her life? Was she stupid? Was she proactive in some way? I am not qualified to judge her, but I do know that hundreds of living young people that she left behind are wondering why she did this and may never know. Her parents, and I know them quite well, are good people. They invested so much of themselves in their daughter. They are now left with a mystery that will haunt them for the rest of their lives. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
It was her choice and she made it. The sad thing is that you may never know why. That just seems to be the way it is. Miracles are generaly viewed as a positive thing. Is life still a miracle when you are suffering?
Snowflake Fair enough. I have a point to my life, and my life doesn't seem absurd. I was just arguing the point of life in general. As for your point to life, I wouldn't say you found it... More so created it... Which is the most any of us can do... This is what Camus called defying the absurd... Very noble, but it doesn't mean life isn't absurd, it just means you refuse to see it that way... And I do refuse to see my life as absurd, though I can still admit it's possible. Empty Dragon, Meaningless is not a label, so to speak, it is the lack of one. Meaningless is the lack of meaning... And without humans, as you said, there would be no meaning therefore all would be meaningless. Couldn't have put it better myself. Celeron, I am sorry for your loss. Let me sum it all up in a short saying. "The universe assigns no meaning to me, I assign meaning to the universe"
I just stopped in and read some of the posts and thought I would add my little input... I feel differently about suicide, depending on the points of view: A. I feel it is wrong for a physically and emotionally healthy person who is suffering depression or anxiety to take his/her life for whatever personal dilemma that they are facing. B. For someone who is terminally ill, however, I feel that it is okay for a suffering person to choose the quicken the process should they choose to do so. What does anyone think about medical-assisted suicide?
I think too many people say suicide is selfish. They always say "But what about all the people that have to suffer the loss of their loved one?". I say get over it. I'm sorry, but it's selfish to want someone to continue living an insufferable existance just so you don't have to face some tough times.
I AGREED WITH YOU! Let me clairfy so that there is no confusion. My two conflicting ideas are this: 1. My original thought was that it was terrible for a person who is feeling dispair to commit suicide because it's crazy to blindly dive into the unknown to "end" a pain that is actually temporary. A person's life is within their control at all times and he/she should be able to find alternative methods towards coping with painful situations, even if their past or present situation involves tramatic events inflicted upon them that is not their fault. A person has the ability to seek help to cope and overcome the pain and to move upwards to become a more stable and happier person. Further, a person who feels alone is self-involved and has no idea how many lives that he/she has touched (ie, friends, family members, acquaintenances) and how much that person would be missed. With that being said, here is my alternative view: 2. Those persons who are terminally ill with no hopes of regaining their physical strength and who are deeply suffering should have the right to seek medical assistance to end their life. In that matter, I feel that it is selfish for a family member, friend, or acquaintance to try to dissuade the loved one from committing the act and allow the terminally ill person suffer any longer if he/she chooses to end their life. Therefore, it is a persons right to use do what they please with their body. Conclusively, these conflicting points (above) are why I stated that I feel "differently" about suicide.
fair enough.. but i agree with what notme said about it.. ppl shud get over it like they do when ppl die due to natural/unnatural causes... suicide is just cuz the individual committing it has control over it... and the 'control' is wat ppl are not agreeing with... why should someone continue their existence if they have nothin to look forward to.... as notme said.. its selfish for other ppl to let ther other person live just cuz they'd like them around.. just get over it...
Well... sigh... a person can't stop someone who has no other intention to end their life so... yep. I'd agree with you there. "If you're going to kill yourself, do it," you say. A person SHOULD have the right to do with their body as they please, including ending their life. I just feel that a person should think about the consequences and of death as a final means to an end and I would urge a person, whether close to me or not, to consider other alternatives first before deciding that suicide is really the right answer. Death is not the one and only solution. This especially should be pressed upon teenagers who are niave in nature and feel daily pressures within their world, a world consumed by their social life. Some teenagers have taken their life simply because they were rejected by their peers or because of trouble in their homelife, or from public embarrassment (which falls into the category of rejection.) I think teenagers need more than just the guidence counselor who tells students that his/her door opened. There needs to be someone to let students know that life isn't all "High School," and that the problems that they are facing now is not the reality of the future. Everything is temporary. Urge the students to think about what dreams that they would have for the future... what job they would like to have, do they want to be married? have children? And not just focusing on one path but mulitple paths, like going to college versus, travelling, versus working and let them know of all the choices available to them. I suppose all this rant sums up to my hope that people would consider the value of their life before taking that step into the darkness. But perhaps, I'm naive myself.
Stoney, I agree with you, to a degree. I think there's always hope. I never think suicide is the best answer. But it is an available answer that people have the right to chose.
Docile slaves don't kill themselves, eh? I mean let's face it, "going to college, travelling, working" - what kind of life is it when everything you could want is something that you've been taught to want. Suicide is a perfectly honourable option.
