Suicide

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by notme2000, Dec 15, 2002.

  1. notme2000 The Art Of Fact Registered Senior Member

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    What is your opinion on suicide? I was thinking about it. Suicide is commiting to an extreme. The oposite would probably be Buddha. A person who commits suicide realizes the utter "absurdity of life", and with this total realization, follows through with action. A person with the Buddha mindset realizes the absolute beauty to life and follows through with action. The Buddha claims life is beautiful and worth the bad times... The suicidal says even the beautiful isn't worth it, it would have been easier to have never been born. Now my question is this; who is right, and who is mistaken?
     
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  3. roadblock Registered Senior Member

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    I'm not really answering your question but i just wanted to say that people that commit suicide are very brave and have a lot of courage. Most people think they are "wimps" by trying to leave their life if maybe they think they aren't having such a good one or even if they just have some mental problems. But it takes a lot of heart and courage to actually commit suicide. Then everyone gets all mushy to the relatives of the person who died not thinking of a brave person he/she was.
     
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  5. notme2000 The Art Of Fact Registered Senior Member

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    I agree completely!!! They say suicide is giving up... But to them, it's going on with a meaningless life that's giving up. A man of action does something about it.
     
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  7. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    I'm thinking of overdosing morphine before I'm too old. Being old sucks and I want to quit while I still can enjoy life.
     
  8. notme2000 The Art Of Fact Registered Senior Member

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    If I have the benifit of knowing i'm going to die (ie Cancer, or some other disease), I've decided I'm going to go sky diving, appreciate the beauty of the planet, and let it kill me. I dunno, I'd find that almost euphoric. To know you're about to die, to do so in such a non-threatening way, and to be able to completely accept your death, and for the first and only time see your life as a whole... Better then being hit by a car and never even knowing I died.
     
  9. moonman Registered Senior Member

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    Actualy , I wouldn't agree that all people who take their lives are 'brave' or 'couragous'. Though I admit that down at the bottom everyone is shit-scared of dying and crossing this instinctual barrier is probably extremely difficult.
    But most people who kill themselves aren't doing to conquere the fear of death, but because they feel their life is meaningless, that they are worth absolutely nothing and the world would be better off without them.
    I would however (as the Buddah fan I am) be more open to the view that life and the simple beauty of it in it's self is worth living for and that no man is better than the next, and 'worth' is just something that we give ourselves or deny ourselves, and it's nothing but an unneccesary illusion.

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    -the way i would go!
     
  10. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    Well my reason for dying is life lol. I so much enjoy it that I don't want come to a point where I can not do it. simple as that
     
  11. notme2000 The Art Of Fact Registered Senior Member

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    I find this the sad suicide. But what about when the suicide is beacuse of the "absurdity of life". The person isn't horribly depressed, or have a low self-worth... He just realizes there is no point... It's not that they feel worthless, or that the world would be better off without them. It's that it doesn't matter. He'd be better off without the world.
     
  12. pumpkinsaren'torange Registered Senior Member

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    people that commit suicide are wimps and losers. end of sentence.
     
  13. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    I believe that a person's life is only his and no one's other and that he can do with it whatever he wants.
     
  14. pumpkinsaren'torange Registered Senior Member

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    that may be true, but, how selfish is that??? think of all the hurts and pains he will cause other's who care for him? they have to try to cope and come to terms with his suicide, and, more than likely they never will 100%.
     
  15. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    does it really matter?
    (if the reasons are strong enough)
     
  16. notme2000 The Art Of Fact Registered Senior Member

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    But when life becomes insufferable how long are you expected to stick around for your loved ones?
     
  17. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    "Just slit our wrists like cheap coupons
    And say that death was on sale today"

    Why should you live if life isn't worth living?
     
  18. notme2000 The Art Of Fact Registered Senior Member

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    You don't owe your life to anyone, so if you decide to end it, it's your decision, and your's alone.
     
  19. jps Valued Senior Member

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    I don't believe that absurdity conflicts with believing that life is beautiful.

    According to Camus suicide is admitting defeat to the absurd. The first consequence of absurdity is not suicide but revolt.

    From the Myth of Sysyphus:

    "That revolt gives life its value. Spread out over the whole length of a life, it restores its majesty to that life. To a man devoid of blinders, there is no finer sight than that of the intelligence at grips with a reality that trancends it. The sight of human pride is unequaled"

    "It is essential to die unreconciled and not of one's own free will. Suicide is a repudiation. The absurd man can only drain everything to the bitter end, and deplete himself"

    My own opinion is that life is absurd and is also beautiful. These two viewpoints do not have to be contradictory.
    :m:

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  20. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    Fleeing from the Absurd should hold no terrors. Why live a miserable life simply to affirm a point of honour?

    Life is not wholly beautiful. A simple reading of the evening news will tell you that. The vicious and weak have always oppressed those who are compassionate and weak. They always will. And they are not wrong, nor will God avenge them.

    Right and wrong are fictions and God is a myth. You live because you think you are happy? Happiness is impossible. I have never been happy, and I have never seen nor heard of a happy person.

    You live because you think you are loved? Everyone you love will reject you or die.

    You live for the future? The future is simply the present removed by a passage of time. Were you happy in the past? The now is your future from the past's frame of reference.

    You live because you have a place in the world of man? You will never be accepted by this world unless you decide to be it's slave - and I assure you, you are already its slave.

    You are alone in a savage and indifferent cosmos, and you will always be alone.

    That said, what are you going to do about it?

    The only way to exist is to repudidate. If you are not happy, repudidate happiness. If you are not loved, repudidate the idea that you need to be loved. "I love" is always stronger than "I am loved". If you are a slave to alien values -and I again assure you that you are- break those values.

    Suicide is weak, but so is living the way most humans live.

    Are you strong enough to live and not be a slave?



    Which would be my own brand of metaphysical rebellion.
     
  21. EvelinaAnville Registered Senior Member

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    I don't believe suicide is as intellectual a choice as many on this thread are assuming. I think it occurs when someone is in such enormous pain that to live is like walking around on stinging jellyfish. I think it is usually instinctual, not intellectual.
     
  22. jps Valued Senior Member

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    Indeed why flee from the absurd at all?

    Beauty is an aesthetic judgement and as such will differ from person to person. It is fully possible for a person to find death and destruction to be beautiful. However, I agree that life is not wholly beautiful for the vast majority of people.
    Are all people weak? How do you define weakness?
    There have certainly been cases in history where compassionate people have attracted followers and beaten down the vicious. Although, the state you described is more common, it is not the only one possible.

    I agree that god, along with objective right and wrong are fictions. However right and wrong, like beauty, exist as aesthetic jugements we can make as individuals. As for your never having been happy or met a happy person, I have to ask what your definition of happiness is? I define happiness as a lack of phsyical or emotional discomfort or boredom. I am currently happy most of the time by this standard as are many people I know.
    I have also known people who have died surrounded by those who love them.

    Nobody can ever be accepted by everyone, even those who conform to their environment at every oppurtunity are not accepted by the entire world as they are rejected by those who do not.
    Everyone can be said to be a slave of the world as no one can ever escape it. To attempt to break free of the world completely is futile. You can never escape, for example, the laws of physics.



    If you repudiate everything and replace it with nothing then what is left?
    What do YOU live for?
     
  23. Thor "Pfft, Rebel scum!" Valued Senior Member

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    My views on the matter

    A person who commits suicide is either brave or stupid. It takes mocksy to end it all. And coming to the conclusion that there is nothing left for you takes a lot of thought.
    But, most people who do commit suicide could rebuild their lives and start afresh.
    If they commit suicide because something has happened to them, then they are running away from their problem and more than likely putting a burden on someone else ie Family.
    It is very selfish in that respect.

    I would only commit suicide if the only alternative was a fate worse than death (ie Stranded on an island with a welshman

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    I would never, ever want someone close to me to be upset over my death, especially if I took my own life.

    A great example from a lyrical genuis. Thank you Xev for bringing it into the topic

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