SUICIDE - Why do whales beach themselves???!!! WHY?

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by Nebuchadnezzaar, Jan 13, 2003.

  1. Nebuchadnezzaar Registered Senior Member

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    i'm not buying for a second that the have lost there sense of direction.

    too many submarines and other military devices in the worlds oceans, most likely the cause.

    comments?
     
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  3. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    don't you contradict yourself in this post. They lost their sense of direction because they received some kind of damage from 'submarines and stuff'.
     
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  5. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    I suspect that us pumping out huge amounts of electromagnetic energy interferes with their biological navigational systems. We really do pump out far too much crap radiation. We need to stop broadcasting so much and use landlines for everything.
     
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  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    I think its not electromagnetic radiation that is the problem. More likely, sonar is the problem.
     
  8. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    James R

    Platypus, sharks, whales, even moles, navigate by using the Earth's magnetic field. Platypus, sharks, and others hunt by sensing local EM fields from other creatures.

    We pump out ridiculous amounts of EM radiation.
     
  9. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    sometimes it is just an infection that screws up their navigation skills....
     
  10. Nebuchadnezzaar Registered Senior Member

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    Re: Re: SUICIDE - Why do whales beach themselves???!!! WHY?


    Yes i suppose i do, but if you don't know what i mean, they you are just silly. On a more pedantic note you didn't really ask me if I contradicted myself because you didn't put a question mark on your sentence, now did you?

    the "stuff" i am referring to is submarine detection devices used by the worlds military to detect subs in the area. I do not know specifically what those devices are(anybody who didn't build them would not know what they are exactly) so i call them stuff. sorry. They are killing our whales and that's all that's important to me, not as important as your nit-picking and failuer to address the issue in any real terms. Oh yes i read your point of infection and the like, sure that could happen, but why are you so CLOSE MINDED about my thought? doesn't seem like you gave it a chance as is what i would expect from a fellow sciforum member, but to each his own fate.
     
  11. Nebuchadnezzaar Registered Senior Member

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    sorry if i was not clear, i expect each sciforum member to be open minded.
     
  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Adam,

    Yes, we do pump out heaps of EM radiation. However, as far as I am aware, there is no evidence that it causes whales any particular problems.

    Sonar, on the other hand, can damage the ears of whales. It can also swamp the whales' own sonar with much louder sounds, so that the whales are not aware of shallowing water.

    That's why I think sonar is a potential explanation for whale beachings.
     
  13. Nebuchadnezzaar Registered Senior Member

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    yes i agree and fear it is the sonar waves which are killing the whales. The worlds military emit sonar pulses all over the place that are well above the comfortable level for whales. It would be something similar to the sounds of shell bombing in ww1 and ww2 which the soldiers were affected by.
     
  14. spookz Banned Banned

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    this is upsetting. something has to be done
     
  15. spookz Banned Banned

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    NATO exercise Neo Tapon 2002
    Causes Mass Whale Beachings and Deaths
    JEROME SOCOLOVSKY / AP 10oct02
    MADRID, Spain — Preliminary scientific tests on dead whales point to undersea noise from naval maneuvers by Spain and other NATO countries as the likely cause of the mass stranding of 15 whales in the Canary Islands, a scientist said Wednesday. The tests, commissioned by the regional government of Spain's Canary Islands, is strengthening suspicions that powerful sonar equipment used in these and other naval exercises may interfere with the sound waves emitted by the species known as the beaked whale, which they use to locate food.

    "This would be the seventh time there is a coincidence ... between NATO exercises and the stranding of beaked whales" since 1985, said Michel Andre, a veterinary scientist leading the tests.

    Nine Cuvier's beaked whales were found dead on Sept. 24-25 after they washed up on the Canary Islands of Fuerteventura and Lanzarote. Six more beached whales were released back into the sea while another two were spotted floating lifeless off the coast.

    At the same time, 10 NATO countries — Germany, Belgium, Canada, France, Greece, Norway, Portugal, Britain, Turkey, and the United States — were conducting a multinational exercise known as Neo Tapon 2002. The maneuvers are meant to practice securing the strategic Strait of Gibraltar, 900 kilometers (550 miles) northeast of the islands, according to the Spanish Defense Ministry.

    Defense Minister Federico Trillo, responding to a question in the Senate from a Canary legislator, said the ministry was investigating the beachings. He added that there were no plans to suspend the annual exercise.

    Andre, a veterinary researcher at the University of Las Palmas de Gran Canaria, stressed that the findings did not establish a direct relationship between sonar from the NATO vessels and the stranding. However, he added that after preliminary tests "the only cause which we cannot rule out ... is acoustic impact."

    The researcher said autopsies on the dead whales found brain damage consistent with impacts from military sonar signals. The tests also demonstrated the whales were otherwise "healthy and in good shape" before their deaths. A second set of tests focussing on the inner ears, expected to take a few weeks, is expected to establish the cause of the beaching with greater certainty, he said.

    The Cuvier's beaked whale is a toothed cetacean found around the world, usually in groups of up to 25 family members. Adults range from five to eight meters (17 to 26 feet) in length. Beachings of beaked whale groups coinciding with military exercises have previously occurred in the Bahamas, Greece, and one other time in the same Canary Islands, according to Andre.

    Last weekend, more than 1,000 people demonstrated in front of a Spanish government building, demanding that the waters around the islands be declared a whale sanctuary off limits to military maneuvers, according to Spanish press reports. Richard Page of the environmental group Greenpeace said military exercises are just another environmental threat — along with oil drilling, shipping, and industrial pollution — that "are pushing animals out of their preferred feeding and breeding places."


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    NATO blamed for dead whales
    TED HARRISON / The Guardian (UK) 28sep02
    The Canary Islands authorities have asked NATO to halt a naval exercise in the area, fearing it may be responsible for the death of 17 whales washed up on the coast of Fuerteventura and Lanzarote this week. The heads of six Cuvier's beaked whales have been taken to the veterinary department of Las Palmas University for examination, in particular to discover if their inner ears were damaged by pressure from sonar devices.

    The exercise Neo Tapon 2002, organised by the Spanish navy and involving about 30 NATO ships and submarines, is being held in the Atlantic between the Canaries and Gibraltar.

    They include the US frigate De Wert, which specialises in anti-submarine warfare.

    Two months ago a new sonar system, Surtass LFA, was authorised for US naval use, despite fierce lobbying by conservationists who claimed that sonar had been responsible for the mass death of whales in the Mediterranean and off the Bahamas.

    The US government gave the navy a five-year exemption from the Marine Mammal Protection Act after tests led to the conclusion that the system was unlikely to injure marine mammals.

    One of the independent marine biologists conducting the tests, Dr Kurt Fristrup, said: "If the stranding is tightly correlated in time and space to the NATO exercise, this will be another clear indication of an environmental issue that must be studied."

    A Greenpeace spokesman in the Canaries said the link was clear, but a NATO spokesman said that by the time the whales were found dead the ships involved were 500 miles to the north-east.

    The Surtass LFA system can transmit signals as powerful as 215 decibels and the US navy says its use is vital in helping to detect super-quiet submarines. Some scientists believe that a whale's eardrums can explode at 180 decibels.

    Beaked whales which were studied after the Bahamas incident in March 2000, when eight died, were found to be bleeding from the ears, and there was evidence of damage consistent with an intense pressure injury.

     
  16. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    Re: Re: Re: SUICIDE - Why do whales beach themselves???!!! WHY?

    i'm quite sure that sonar etc. cause whale beaching, but since i am a scientist I sometimes like to nitpick on logic related things. That is just a quirk, not something with vicious intent.

    i just included the infection option in this whole scheme since this could also be man-induced by means of polution, be it noise polution or chemical polution.
     
  17. Maxine Registered Member

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    Why do whales beach themselves

    I read somewhere that whales beach themselves because the ocean currents are in the process of changing, therefore the whales passing through end up confused and beached.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Oh look, I'd rather believe that then the theory about the leader of the pack getting sick and everyone follows! HELLO!!!
    Whales wouldn't be so stupid would they?
     
  18. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    Re: Why do whales beach themselves

    could be, but on the other hand, people will follow any leader anywhere...remember hitler? are people really that stupid...yes... could whales be that stupid....maybe...maybe not...i will give them the benifit of the doubt.
     
  19. Nebula Occasionally Frequent Registered Senior Member

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    if you want to see something EXTREMELY funny, do a video search for "exploding whale" (or words to that extent) on Kazaa or something.

    I guess a whale beached itself somewhere, and in order to dispose of the carcass easier, they decided to blow it up.

    First you see the whale dissapear in a thunderous explosion, and a cloud of sand rises. The near-by crowd cheers with joy at the spectacle they just witnessed. Suddenly their cheers turn to screams as huge chunks of whale start to fall from the sky. People start running frantically, and something smears the camera. They later found a car, 1/4 mile away, crushed by a huge chunk of fat.

    How friggin cool is that?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  20. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    exploding whales

    if you leave a whale carcass on the beach it will explode by itself eventually...all the gassess that build up inside have to go out eventually...

    sometimes people are not allowed near a carcass because of the risk of explosion...

    the aroma must be wonderful to in these cases
     
  21. pumpkinsaren'torange Registered Senior Member

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    cows explode, too.
     
  22. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    Re: Why do whales beach themselves

    Whales have been dealing with changing ocean currents for millions of years so that theory is even dumber than the following a sick leader theory.
    The military subs sonar pulses are definately damaging their ears, possibly to the point where they just want to die. I'm glad people check their heart rates and such before mindlessly pushing them back out. Humanely euthanising them is the best option when they are very stressed. Its Sad stuff but at least the whaling industry has slowed down, not enough of course, did you know norway lobbied to lift a ban on hunting orca's? If it wasn't so disgusting it would be funny. How do you "lobby" for something like that? "aaaaah we aaahhh.... ummm we would like to aaaah... senselessly murder these creatures ... please." , its insane. Thankfully I'm pretty sure they will be denied but jesus christ the nerve of some people.
    Any way, I digress, yes the subs are causing some of this but whales have been beaching themselves for a long time, it truely is a mystery as to why. Maybe some pods have strong spiritual beliefs like the mass suicide nike cult and think they are going to a better place, who knows?
     
  23. immane1 Registered Senior Member

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    If I'm not mistaken, whales have been beaching themselves long before sonar has been invented. The very reason they tried to blow up this whale was the quite pungent aroma emanating from it.
     

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