Strip mod status/ban WellCookedFetus

Discussion in 'SF Open Government' started by Mr. Chips, Jul 14, 2004.


Should WellCookedFetus be removed as a moderator or banned?

Poll closed Jul 28, 2004.
  1. Nothing should be done.

  2. Strip him of moderator status only.

  3. Strip him of moderator status and ban him for a certain period of time.

  4. Ban him forever from participating at SciForums

  5. No opinion

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  1. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

    Had paulsamuel not wished death upon a member of this forum whose mental health may or may not be able to withstand the jibe, and had whatever moderator(s) my "report post" message went to edited the offending remark, I would not have felt compelled to present such a one-sided and admittedly biased interpretation of paulsamuel in this post.

    I was previously neutral with regards to PS vs. WCF, but no more. PS deserves little respect after the comment he made [1] in this very thread. As one who has seen first-hand what the ignorance and lack of compassion can result in when dealing with someone who has had suicidal ideations, I will not remain silent. WCF has made some mistakes in his choices of words in these forums, but who among us can say we are innocent of this? Certainly not paulsamuel.

    Interestingly enough, paulsamuel has demonstrated some lack of consideration for the personal information of others [2] with the posting of Professor Jeff Connor's email, telephone, website, & fax numbers. Even though I agree with his decision to do so (it was in regards to Michigan's creationist curriculum) as method of disseminating a means to protest governmental/academic policies that were questionable, it still remains that he was implying that contacting this individual in a manner that this individual would not approve of is acceptable, perhaps even honorable under the circumstances.

    But one has to consider that what is most important to paulsamuel isn't necessarily whether justice is served. Perhaps a creationist-tolerant professor that may or may not have the political capital to influence a school district or state academic policy is fair game to such tactics. Perhaps the poor sod is merely attempting to hold onto a job and effect change slowly from within. It seems, however, that such tactics, whether they actually occurred or not, is taboo to use on Dr. Armstrong. Personally, I think it's likely that the calls never occurred and that Armstrong/paulsamuel is responding to bruised ego.

    He's demonstrated that ego is important to him, after all. In the Remember thread [3] of the Free Thoughts forum, paulsamuel hijacked the topic to blast Xev's position on race. And he didn't miss an opportunity to announce his qualifications: "an evolutionary biologist, a geneticist, a Dr., a scientist, a university level teacher" while insulting Xev (who's issued her share to be sure) as an "insolent teenager."

    Indeed, paulsamuel crossposted his rant to Xev on several occasions in a most annoying manner such as the one in the Obligatory publicity whoring post thread [4] begun by Zero, announcing his return. Paulsamuel's aggravation with Xev reached a critical mass in the On Race thread [5] when he attempted to place her on ignore. Because of her moderator status, this failed leaving him to announce "[w]ow, a loudmouth racist I can't put on ignore. Well, the KKK can have this place! They can make up their own science." Paulsamuel then posted a request for instructions to "unsubscribe" from the sciforums [6]. Perhaps he simply meant that particular thread. I doubt it, based on his frustration level. What drives a person with a Ph.D., "a geneticist, a Dr., a scientist, a university level teacher" to continue to participate in forum and interact with those that cause him such grief? Could it be the same motivation that such an alleged intellectual would hope death upon a student? His ego?
    But what began the WellCookedFetus vs. paulsamuel feud? They both appear to be amicable and agreeable in the threads On Race [7], where paulsamuel even commends WCF for standing up to a racist, and in How does evolution actually happen? [8], where they trade perspectives on the Punctuated Equilibrium theory of Stephen J. Gould.

    It appears that the rift between the two started with a post by paulsamuel in the thread How can Humans be Primates? [9]. Paulsamuel criticized, albeit mildly and perhaps justifiably, an article posted by WCF. The link no longer works to the article, but paulsamuel posted one of his own. Perhaps this appeared to be a "one-up" gesture to WCF, because his response was soon to point out paulsamuel's tendency to frequently make mention of his CV and Ph.D. within the forums. Uncharacteristic of what one might expect from "university level teacher," paulsamuel immediately retorted, "sorry to embarass you, but i fucking hate know-it-alls."

    And so it began. After a brief exchange, which included an I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I leveled response by WCF, paulsamuel finally listed his academic credentials, punctuated by "I reiterate; DumbAss!" Directed to WCF, of course.

    Paulsamuel's arguments and responses remained civil and on-topic until WCF questioned his qualifications on the subject. At that time, paulsamuel began resorting to ad hominem remarks (as did WCF, though not as severely at that point). On page two, the esteemed professor informs WCF that he was teaching him humility. This gives one pause to wonder what lesson is being taught on page 7 of this thread [1] when he stated "i want him to commit suicide, one less asshole in the world." Emphasis is paulsamuel's as is the capitalization. Indeed, it is this omission of the capitalization of "I" that indicates that paulsamuel was angry and rushed when typing. But he doesn't appear to regret the words since he hadn't edited them as of 9:19 am on 7.26.04.

    And so it continued. With paulsamuel's ego, the same man that instructed another member [10] to "Screw You! From now on you must address me as Dr. Armstrong. Mister Tetraneutron (emphasis paulsamuel's), it easy to see that the feud continued. And paulsamuel has history of badgering members, particularly moderators. His Xev/racism crossposts are evidence. Continuous, ad hominem jibes at WCF [11] when he could simply have largely ignored him are as well. It's no wonder that when WCF attained the status of Moderator that it would have an affect on paulsamuel. This, the person whom he detested since the very moment he questioned Armstrong's credentials. And now he wishes death upon him.

    Shame on you paulsamuel/Paul Armstrong. What a blight you are upon the academic community and the university you work for (if, indeed, you do).

    Shame on us all for perpetuating this nonsense of a discussion thread (and I include you, WCF, as well as I).

    After reviewing WCF vs. Paulsamuel in the sciforums archives, I think a couple of things are clear. WCF wasn't exactly nice to paulsamuel, but the level of ad hominem attack was certainly more severe from the "esteemed professor." WCF and Xev have gotten under his skin. One must wonder about a professor that allows two internet strangers to bother him so. One must wonder about a professor that wishes death upon a student.

    One must wonder if the telephone calls to this alleged professor's alleged place of business actually occurred.

    If indeed paulsamuel is a professor at a university then perhaps a telephone call to the university is warranted. But not to speak with Dr. Armstrong. I'm sure that someone within the university faculty would find it interesting that a professor of their institution stated that he hoped a student committed suicide.


    1. paulsamuel. (2004, 25/07). Strip mod status/ban WellCookedFetus. sciforums [643123]. Message posted to SF Open Government, archived at
    2. paulsamuel. (2004, 3/19). Creationism taught in michigan schools. sciforums [537392]. Message posted to Biology & Genetics, archived at
    3. paulsamuel. (2004, 02/04/04). Remember? sciforums [545869]. Message posted to Free Thoughts, archived at
    4. paulsamuel. (2004, 3/31/04). Obligatory publicity whoring post. sciforums [544905]. Message posted to Free Thoughts, archived at
    5. paulsamuel. (2004, 3/29/04). On Race. sciforums [543541 & 543543]. Message posted to.
    6. paulsamuel. (2004, 3/30/04). Help unsubscribing. sciforums [544148]. Message posted to Site Feedback, archived at
    7. paulsamuel. (2003, 15/02/03). DNA,and GENETIC information. sciforums [263926]. Message posted to Biology & Genetics, archived at
    8. WellCookedFetus & paulsamuel. (2003, 02/03/03). How does evolution actually happen. In sciforums (18194) (Forum Thread). Retrieved 25/07/04, from sciforums:
    9. VitalOne. (2003, 03/07/03). How can Humans be Primates? sciforums [387455]. Message posted to Biology & Genetics, archived at

    10. paulsamuel. (2003, 29/03/03). Supernova From Experimentation At Fermilab. sciforums [302276]. Message posted to Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology, archived at
    11. paulsamuel. (2003, 7/7/03). Sufficient humans to repopulate? sciforums [387778]. Message posted to Biology & Genetics, archived at
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  3. anu Banned Banned

    Undecided -------6/9.38%

    25 votes for the fetus/33 for the others

    a pox on the retards that voted for this moron. it is [you that is responsible for this shit. despite the clear indications of his imbecility, you fucks voted him in.

    dear lord
    smite these fuckers
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  5. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

    Skinwalker, I think you're correct. I must point out though, that I think there is still a valid point against him in that case which is simply the phone call (if it indeed happened). Obviously there's nothing illegal about calling people, but elevating sciforums to "real life" in the form of calling people (even those you can't stand), well that's just freakin creepy.
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  7. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

    I don't think you've demonstrated much credibility, so I'm still not motivated to listen. Skinwalker seems to have your number. He might be wrong, I don't really care.

    Regardless, I do not have a personal problem with WCF, I just don't think he's mature or bright enough to do the job that he volunteered for. I made that known before he got mod status, as I voted for sarge.
  8. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member


    I told you to talk about me here, not on that thread, you continue complaining about me there, so I deleted like I had warned you I would. There is no fault on my part there. Why is it you can't see that? Complaining to me about my moderating on threads in those sub-forums is simple not aloud, read the rules! If you want to argue about what should and should not be edited or deleted that should have been done on this thread or in PM
  9. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

    The discussion had to do with YOUR HYPOCRITICAL POSTS. Your modding was consequentially related, since you couldn't help but abuse it. I explained my problem with YOUR POSTS there and you started deleting everything I said. You don't even understand what an insult is, yet feel compelled to delete based on your lacking comprehension, then you delete everything, not just edit so I know what your problem is, then I show how you don't know what an insult is, in the form of a direct criticism of your personal posts there, and you start deleting that shit too. Note that that was directly related to the criticism of the offensive nature of the topic post. I don't BLAME you for anything. You are demonstrably incompetent and you should be stripped of your status.

    You act as if being a mod gets you off of fucking up in an argument. You said stupid shit there (not as a mod, as a poster). You then held me accountable by a different standard that you held yourself. I was demonstrating to you what you'd done - quite clearly, and you started deleting it as insulting, then you changed yoru story to off topic. As far as I'm concerned, it's RIGHT ON topic. Whatever is convenient to get you out of your stupidity eh? Doesn't matter if you have to abuse your mod privelages to do it.

    I've explained this shit to you enough times now. You don't get it and I'm done trying to explain it to you, as you are obviously incapable of comprehending it. IMO, that serves clearly as a demonstration of your incompetence.
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2004
  10. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    My hypocritical post was not about the thread topic, the nature of insults of mine or yours was not about the thread topic. I apologies for what I said and deleted it, and I told you not to talking about it there, you didn't listen, so I deleted it.
  11. Kunax Sciforums:Reality not required Registered Senior Member

    IMO WCF is making a problem for him self when his editing/deleting so called insults, by only remove them from some of the users. Eather they should all remain or all me remove, nothing half assed.
  12. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    its not easy to find rule violation in page after page of threads, allot to sift though. I think I removed all the violations on that thread by now.
  13. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

    Your first of many was indeed exactly on topic. It follows that the conversation stemming from criticism of that post was on topic.

    As I've repeated ad nauseum, I think you are DEAD WRONG. The nature of insults had everything to do with criticizing the topic itself.

    "I apologies"? Is english your second language or something? I though you were american.

    Just to replace it with another unsupported insult.

    "I told you not to talking about it?"

    I was continuing with ON TOPIC discussion, as your stupidity became relevant. You had the gaul to lecture me on respect (which was ON TOPIC), I RETORTED, rendering it ON TOPIC. You're fucking stupid. Resign.

    I noticed.
  14. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Arguing with you is not going to change your mind, when goofyfish looks over it then we will see.
  15. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member


    Your vile humor is one thing I'll miss, but I won't worry about it as I'm sure I'll see it again in your next reincarnation.
  16. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member


    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    I content that the quoted assertion was completely supported. It's an insult if I tell him his mother sucks donkeys. It's the truth if I demonstrate why he's a dipshit and then assert the label. Goddamned PC BULLSHIT pisses me off (nothing personal).
  17. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    if you disagree with what he moderators find offensive here, perhaps you should try other forums that might suit your taste better.
  18. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

    I haven't disagreed with a COMPETENT moderator, dipshit. I disagree with YOU, because I think you are INCOMPETENT.

    GET IT?

    That my opinion differs from CC's is yet to be determined. He might have something reasonable to say regarding my post. He might say "oh yeah, good point", or "I still think that's too harsh". Being that he is SENSIBLE, I will respect his decision, though I still may not agree with him. Of course, if my posts hadn't been deleted, I wouldn't have to explain the difference between insults and supported assertions again. For shits' sake I'd hate for a MOD like YOU to actually LEARN SOMETHING from someone who is RIGHT.
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2004
  19. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    CounslerCoffee believes that your thread should have been edited, especially the phrase: "You sir, are a DIPSHIT" do you agree with him?

    If I simple deleted your insults in that post you would not complain?
  20. 2inquisitive The Devil is in the details Registered Senior Member

    by Wes:

    "I apologies"? Is english your second language or something? I though you were american.

    From my recollection, Fetus is from Brazil or Argentina or one of the SOUTH American
    countries. Is that correct, Fetus? Maybe there is language barrier that is adding
    somewhat to the misunderstandings.
  21. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    I'm from Venezuela by ancestry but raised in USofA, I’m just not a good speller. Wesmorris is just insulting me, there is not truth to it.
  22. paulsamuel Registered Senior Member

    after Fetus' fucked up post, you're writing me???!!!!!??? you are supposed to be a treatment director for juvenile delinquents in Grand Prairie, TX? how could you get such a position when you know so little? do you think writing me about something is helping Fetus with his sucidal tendancies? don't you think you should be writing him? don't you think you should be contacting his parents. he does live at home. he goes to some school with the initials SCSU. Don't you think you should be making some effort to find him. you are supposed to be the professional. do some fucking thing!

    You're like that joke; Don't just do something, STAND THERE!

    instead you're here massaging your ego, involving yourself in some petty fucking power games on a fuckiing internet forum. you ought to be fired from your job and you ought to be ashamed of yourself!

    Whoa! Mr. Moral Highground. So, Mr. Moral Highground does not remain silent. He writes me????????!!!!!!!!!!!????????? What the fuck????????!!!!!! Is that how you do stuff in Texas? Is that how you would have dealt with the Columbine students. You would have called in those picking on them, or the girls who snubbed them, instead of finding the real problem, with those students themselves??????????!!!!!!!!!!

    This is merely meant to mislead the reader. that's dispicable! You accuse me of revealing the info, then say I was right to do so. As if this has anything to do with Fetus calling me! Jeff Conner contacted me! He was announcing the threat to the curriculum. He posted this info on the EvolDir directory publically for all to see. He wants as many people as possible to see the post.

    I don't think the members here are as stupid as you think they are. They don't fall for this crap. Wait till they start getting phone calls. You don't think Fetus will stop at me, do you? He will do it again, and you will all go through this same discussion.

    You appear to be using a post that you did not understand to form an argument. I did not post Jeff Conner's name because he was attempting to change the curriculum. This was no tactic except to help Jeff reach as many people as possible, and he was the contact, therefore his contact information was posted. You really ought to try to at least understand the posts you are trying to use to form an argument.

    Regardless of your misunderstanding, the situations are not analogous. WellCookedFetus CALLED ME AT WORK!!!

    Whoa! Insolent teenager. What an insult. Call the cops.

    WellCookedFetus CALLED ME AT WORK!!!

    This is all taken out of context to mislead the reader and therefore are lies. Which makes you a liar, walker.

    My credentials were posted for all to see and whenever anyone questioned my credentials (which was constant), they were referred to them. Those were the only times my credentials were mentioned (with perhaps one or two exceptions).

    I never had a permanent problem with Fetus, however, I always defended myself when attacked. The reason it appeared there was a feud was because I found myself more and more defending myself against Fetus' attacks. So it looked like a feud, but if it was it was one-sided.

    So, it appears you do see that my interactions with Fetus were always civil until I was attacked. This is the 2nd time you mentioned it.

    It also appears that Fetus' self-reproaching suicidal tirade disturbed me more than you. Your response was to do nothing. I tried a Shock Treatment to snap him out of it, to show him how fucked up what he wrote was. Your response is to attack me, to make yourself look better.

    You ought to be ashamed.

    You're supposed to be the professional.

    Jesus Christ dude, do something!

    Now that is an outright threat. This is outrageous and dispicable. You are a coward!

    Reveal yourself!

    Hiding behind your anonymity!

    You are a coward!!!!!!!!!!
  23. anu Banned Banned

    i agree
    the uni will ask.... which student? does he go to school here?
    skin says..... no, i have no idea where he goes to school at,

    the uni will ask.... where does he live
    skin says.....i do not know where the student lives.

    the uni will ask...whats his name
    skin says.....i do not not even know his name

    the uni will ask--- how then did the doctor contact this student?
    skin says-----over the internet?

    finally, the uni ask skin to leave the property
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