Strange Days Indeed

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Bowser, Oct 9, 2017.

  1. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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  3. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Wow... the (far?) right puts out some psychotically out of touch articles on some seriously cancerous websites (no, really, that townhall link tried to autoplay about a half dozen different video adverts at once).
     
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  5. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    I had no problems whatsoever, but I'm using Brave, so it blocks adverts.
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The first: Timothy Meads's article once again raises the same old, old question about his brand of political analysis: are they lying, or are they stupid?

    Since he goes out of his way for innuendo and slander, beyond the simple misrepresentations we expect from the confused and those missing the point, maybe the odds favor bad faith (lying) - except that we know those slanders are canards of his crowd, a sort of automatic or habitual word-spew not really connected with any of the contexts in which they are employed. So honest stupidity is a sufficient explanation, if pushed to its limit.

    What I think? I think to find out what the prof actually wrote and meant, you will have to read the actual writings of the professor involved, now and in the future. Mead - like everyone else on that honey barge of a website - has proven himself a most unreliable narrator. No more time should be wasted on him or anyone who gives him a platform, unless one is interested in tracking them as a topic in itself - life is short, after all.

    The second: we have proof that authoritarian and reactionary and conservative politics comes in all colors. Whether that faction of BLM is ideologically Left or not cannot be determined from that event. It is indeed worrisome - but it's hardly a new worry. Nothing sudden or unusual about it.
     
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Too preachy to report accurately.

    They're the Left.

    The revolutionary left, historically, isn't especially unified.

    Of course you are.

    Still, though, why?
     
  9. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    The first article is totally true. While hard work is mostly a good thing, the ideology that people are successful or not totally based on their own individual efforts is a racist/ elitist lie. It's a way to prevent government efforts at addressing unequal opportunity in society. That means rich white people get all the advantages.

    Secondly, the ACLU does represent Nazi pigs that want to kill us. It's legitimate to exercise one's free speech rights to protest this action, which paradoxically was done in the name of free speech. Personally, I don't think free speech is the highest social value when you advocate the oppression, murder, or deportation of innocent people.
     
  10. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    He purpose of free speech is not to handle what could or should be done according to some speaker; its purpose is to ensure that they have the right to be heard - that they cannot be silenced simply because some don't want to hear them, or think they are of some sub-social class. That is critically important to an advanced society.
    (Granted, it does not give total free rein either, such as in the case of hate speech).
     
  11. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Nazis and alt-right speech is more often than not hate speech. They are inciting the eradication of many of our other rights, like the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
     
  12. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Not being denied. What's your point?
     
  13. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    The left may be right about their strident opposition to the moronic wing of the extreme right.
     
  14. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I thought we were talking about the virtues of free speech.
     
  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The speaker in question was from the ACLU.
    Is that part of the moronic, violent, threatening wing of the extreme right?
    They don't, actually, "represent" them in any but the most narrow, legalistic, specific, single issue court case sense. The speaker involved would not have been speaking for them, for example.
     
  16. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Which doesn't occur in a vacuum. Context and content also matter.
    Considering that they are protesting in the context of a racist president who praised gun toting Nazis, and an attorney general who makes J. Edgar Hoover look like a liberal, I think they can be forgiven for lacking a nuanced view of the situation.
     
  17. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ^^^
    Freedom comes with responsibility. Free speech does not mean everyone has the right to say anything & everything any time & any place.

    <>
     
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  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    So the difference between the ACLU and the moronic, violent, threatening wing of the extreme right is a "nuance"?

    It looks more significant to me than the difference between the Trumpers and the moronic, threatening wing of whoever it was organizing that shutdown.
     
  19. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    Why not? Are there a select few with more freedom than others where speech is concerned?
     
  20. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ^^^
    Quite the opposite. My freedom ends where yours begins & vice versa.

    There is an old saying : Sticks & stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.
    It is usually good to try to live by but words do hurt people, sometimes worse than much physical hurt, specially children & no 1 has the right to hurt another without just cause.

    <>
     
  21. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    I prefer to believe we share the same freedom. The First applies to all.
    Words have power. I agree.
     
  22. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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  23. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ^^^
    I cannot guess what you think that is supposed to mean.

    ^^^
    That is what I am saying. Freedom & human rights apply equally to everyone.
    Anyone having complete freedom would require others to have less freedom.
    Some people doing or saying anything at all any place any time inherently interferes with others' rights.

    <>
     

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