Stopping their suicide?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Beer w/Straw, May 28, 2017.

  1. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    If you could say that you would be better off if your parents had died when you were ten years old. Is it moral or not to try and stop another parents' suicide that had kids around the same age when they argue that their kids would be better off without them?
     
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  3. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    It's an unanswerable question because morals aren't objective. The kids might be better off but the parents wouldn't be better off.

    It depends on your view on the "sanctity" of life or your view on doing things for the greater good. It also depends on your view of the morality of acting vs not acting.
     
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  5. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, you could say that. Yet, it's kinda' copping out for this forum subsection as that argument could be used to squelch everything here.
     
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    It is always better to stop a suicide.

    Suicide with the motive you suggest suffers from the flaw of false binary - the idea that there are only two ways to resolve an issue. There are always more than two ways.
    Any "good" that one might eek out of the death of a parent will pale in comparison to the good of finding a positive alternative to the problem.

    Whether or not the solution is forthcoming, is not a decision to be made when the suicide is imminent. Solutions can be sought once help has arrived and the person is in a better place.

    So: always stop them.
     
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  8. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Can't I then argue that my 'false binary' is better as it gives more than just one choice?
     
  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    The false binary is:
    1] let them die and thus [the problem] stops
    2] have them live and thus [the problem] continues.

    It assumes there is only one option that will to stop [the problem].
    There are always other ways. i.e at least three options
     
  10. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    Often parents have more than one child, and not all the children feel the same way about the parents. The problem may not be the parents, but what is going inside one of the children. In this case, the loss of the parents will not solve the problem. This is called projection, where what is inside is projected outside, so the inner problem appears to be come from the outside so it can become conscious. The movie projector does not change even if you remove the big screen. It will just shine on another wall; spouse.
     
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  11. Confused2 Registered Senior Member

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    The fact that they are even considering their children makes them better suited to caring for the children than anyone else. Matchbox wisdom "Don't die, your children will never forgive you".
     
  12. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    I didn't conjecture which of those two options would stop the problem(s).
     
  13. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Look up the psychological use of the word "projection".
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
  14. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Is "matchbox wisdom" like a fortune cookie thing?

    And aren't a lot of posters here in a way glad their parents are dead? I've seen more people exclaim they are fifty and above, but I would assume an old age death of their parents and not being ten years old at the time of their parents' passing.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
  15. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    You did, you just phrased it as a question.
    I addressed the question by supposing it to be true and following where it led.
     
  16. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    You're assuming I made assumptions.

    A definite thing I indicated was being at or around the age of ten and this could prove to be a crux in the matter.
    http://www.medicinenet.com/puberty/article.htm
     
  17. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    I question the sanity of some folks who desire/attempt/succeed committing suicide. A person with emotional rather than actual problems seems to me to be acting irrationally & hence at least border line insane.

    For those with certain types of medical conditions, it seems reasonable (hence not insane) even though I might not consider suicide given the same prognosis.

    For a person with dependents and an illness preventing earnings, suicide seems reasonable if there is insurance which would be paid. Note that some policies have clauses preventing payment if the policy holder commits suicide at any time. Many (almost all?) policies have a clause preventing payment if suicide occurs a a short time after the policy is issued. Short time is clearly defined in such policies.
     
  18. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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  19. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    meh I could have said (and am wondering the difference) in the OP at the age of 25 when the brain is fully developed and not 10 when just puberty hits.

    And yes, I post dumb shit with many unknowns.

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  20. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    If their kids would be better off without them, the kids should probably be in foster care anyway. The issue of preventing the parent's suicide has nothing to do with helping the kids. It probably is moral to prevent the suicide, because many mental problems can be successfully treated. Once under control, the parent can then get their life back together and maybe return to being a parent.
     
  21. Counter Registered Senior Member

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    I do not know whether someone should stop an act of suicide, but I do know suicide bombers go to hell. Taking your own life before you take another allows ascension to heaven. Taking another life WITH your own sends you to hell. Taking another life negates the suicide.

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  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    That depends very much on your particular flavor of belief.

    Some religions hold that suicide will send you to The Bad Place.


    "Most early theologians of the Catholic Church considered suicide as murder..."

    In the fifth century, St. Augustine wrote the book The City of God, in it making Christianity's first overall condemnation of suicide. His biblical justification for this was the interpretation of the commandment, "thou shalt not kill", as he sees the omission of "thy neighbor", which is included in "thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor", to mean that the killing of oneself is not allowed either.

    In the sixth century AD, suicide became a secular crime and began to be viewed as sinful.

    In 1533, those who committed suicide while accused of a crime were denied a Christian Burial. In 1562, all suicides were punished in this way. In 1693, even attempted suicide became an ecclesiastical crime, which could be punished by excommunication, with civil consequences following. In the 13th century, Thomas Aquinas denounced suicide as an act against God and as a sin for which one could not repent. Civil and criminal laws were enacted to discourage suicide, and as well as degrading the body rather than permitting a normal burial, property and possessions of the suicides and their families were confiscated"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_suicide
     
  23. Counter Registered Senior Member

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    What about animals? "Thou shalt not kill." It does not say only humans! Also it used to be suicidal people were not to receive a burial. Do not know if this is still true.
     

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