Which came first? The chicken or the egg? The natural world does not follow our desire to have defining clear lines. There is transition in everything. Even in simple physics, where most things are quite accurately defined, but not perfectly defined (Due to interactions on the quantum level.) This statement ALMOST seems to suggest that the distinctions can sometimes be made... Yes, and this is exactly one of those moments where the unknown factors (Interactions within the brain) are not well enough understood to nail down precision on when or when you are not conscious. However, that does not detract from the general statement that we know where the definitions are, even if we cannot currently nail down the precise time or moment with accurate precision. More knowledge is needed to attain that- But the Important part is understanding the basis. Without understanding it, you won't know where to go in your research to achieve the accurate results with study, testing and research later. You make it sound as though I was claiming that any doctor can look at his watch and mark a precise time when someone is knocked out or something. I had thought what I was saying is obvious...(and perhaps this alludes to my statement above that no matter how hard I try, I'm not always as clear in my statements as I would like to be.) That we can currently differentiate between consciousness or self awareness scientifically. That is not the same thing as claiming that any doctor in the field, at our current technology can do it in extremely complex situations. We cannot do it with Evolution Discussion, either. Yet, that theory is very well supported and accepted. I cannot vouch for any of what you are covering here... But personally, I would be hard pressed to place trust in my doctor if he approached his treatment of my brain while entertaining such primitive notions. I prefer actual science and medicine to be involved- Not spiritualism. That said, you just completely supported my statements above in which I pointed out that a preconception that links Consciousness to mystical causes will inhibit an ability to simplify and describe consciousness... :shrug: If all these doctors you talked to also entertain such notions, it is no surprise that they have difficulty in defining consciousness.