Stars Are Alive!

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by TruthSeeker, Jun 22, 2006.

  1. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    I've defined life. A star is not alive.
     
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  3. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    If stars are not alive, how do they die?
     
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  5. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    For what? Did you think life was not made of matter? That it didn't share lots of things in common with all matter?

    Look at my definition and tell me a star is alive. You can't.
     
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  7. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    We say that hope dies. Civilizations die. Cars die. It's a metaphor and an anthropomorphation of a thing. Humans are fond of anthropomorphizing.

    A star "dies" when it runs out of fuel and the thermonuclear reactions shut down.
     
  8. heliocentric Registered Senior Member

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    Its the same old semantical lesson that can be found in almost every philosophical debate: words are never absolute in their meaning.
    Can we all just accept that and move on?

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  9. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    I wish...
     
  10. Absane Rocket Surgeon Valued Senior Member

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    That's part of my point! If I can show something does all things TS says is life, and someone claims that it is not alive, then the definition either needs to be tweaked or dumped. I am for dumping the whole definition and forgeting about it.
     
  11. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    What about my definition? The coded information and all that?
     
  12. Absane Rocket Surgeon Valued Senior Member

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    What the hell does that have to do with the snipit you quoted?
     
  13. Absane Rocket Surgeon Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know. As far as I can remember, all I really said was that given enough time I could BS a definition, much like I used to do for every paper I would have to type in school (night before, no research... lol like all those philosophy papers I wrote, no research... all from my head.. get a good grade).

    However, what I think this universe stems from is a small finite number of "axioms" that build all that we see. So, saying a human is alive, a rock is alive, or the fact that peanut butter is brown is all related and not that different. I wouldn't know how to explain it

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  14. Absane Rocket Surgeon Valued Senior Member

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    Yay! Another person on my side!
     
  15. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    I don't disagree! Everything is related in some way. But this discussion seems more about semantics to TS than anything else. You can wordplay all you want. But the fact is that there is a clear understanding of what life is and what is not. If we find a rock on another planet, and this rock grows and evolves and replicates and develops according to some form of coded information in its structure that, in fact, actively generates the structure, then we better find another name for it. Because "rock" is already taken. This thing is alive. If a thing develops only by passively obeying simple physical law, it's not alive. Stars, crystals, rocks, air. Not alive. "LIFE" is just a classification of things that have properties that, in total, clearly distinguish it from "NON_LIFE".

    Right???.
     
  16. Absane Rocket Surgeon Valued Senior Member

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    I think you are correct. I mean, we all "know" (notice the quotes!!!) what is "alive" and what is not. Well, maybe in general. We know what plant cells look like, and as far as I know all plants have this structure. We know what animal cells look like. I can be introduced to an animal or plant I have never seen in my life and make the judgement as to whether it is "alive" or not, and 999 out of 1000 times be "correct."

    And in my normal existance, I would disagree that a star is "alive." However, when I can see where TS is coming from. However, it is all semantics. When you call someone insane or sane, you are talking semantics. But there is not a "universal rule" that defines insane or sane.
     
  17. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    That's fine. Aren't all definitions subject to this contrast phenomenon? In a world of nutjobs, you're the insane one. And in a world of living and non-living things, you're alive, and a star is not. Here's what I would say.

    Suppose we find a race of sentient robots. They are quite friendly, they reproduce by following detailed instructions, coded within themselves, to construct wee robots, they "evolve" due to the fact that their complexity is such that small errors in construction make some new designs better or worse than others (a bit more torque on the lift rotator joint, applied by a slightly different synthetic myo-actuator fiber makes a stronger fellow). Are they alive? I'd come up with a new word to distinguish them from biological life, but yes, I'd say they were. Maybe we're "blifeforms" and they're "mlifeforms"? That sucks. Need to work on it.
     
  18. Absane Rocket Surgeon Valued Senior Member

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    There would be biolife and life. Something can be alive, but doesn't have to be biolife. Biolife is a type if life.

    How's that?
     
  19. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    Simple and to the point.
     
  20. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    Anyways... you got my point...
     
  21. Absane Rocket Surgeon Valued Senior Member

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    Did it take you this long to realize that some of us get your point?

    This thread should have ended a long time ago.
     

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