Star Wars vs Star Trek

I agree. The Tie fighters would be toast.

But I don't think some of the readers here get my points. Everyone is bringing in the Borg, Jedi, Q, time travel, Future Starfleet, ect. That is cheating. I set the battle to use only Star Fleet from only the 2360's with no Jedi, no Q no super powered anything. Also I refuse to bring in any Voyager things (for one it was not in the area in the 2360's and two it along with Enterprise is scientifically and canonically screwed up. I am trying to show the battle in a fair manner.

I'll state that although I gave the battle to the Empire, and though I like Star Wars, I am a hardcore Trekkie. But I like to be realistic about things too.

Now when I say the Empire wins, I mean they barely win. Probably because they have the most ships left (though not many). Star Fleet is more advanced has more intelligent people and when they fire their weapons they actually hit their targets.

 

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the thread is all of star trek and all of star wars. That includes voyager, borg, Q, and more.

 

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phoenix, even if it's simply Post-TNG Star Trek vs Current Latest Empire... Trek wins hands down.

The Defiant, Nova, Norway, and Sabre classes would quickly mince any and all sub-capital vessels

The Sovereign, Defiant, Refit Galaxy, Battle-Fit Nebula, Prometheus, Akira, and Steamrunner classes would EASILY obliterate supercapital ships

The Defiant, Galaxy, Akira, Nova, Intrepid, and Aegis classes would destroy standard capital ships

Yes, Empire has a multitude more ships than the Federation... but consider this:

In a battle of 25 ISD's (a wing if you will) vs the USS Defiant... who do you think would win? I'd wager the defiant... between the incredible power of the Pulse Phasers arrays, the Quantum Torpedoes, it's superior agility, small size, and the fact that it has ablative armor... there's no way the ISD's could properly get a bead on it.

The scenario would go something like this:

ISD's exit hyperspace near DS9 and start pounding on it - to prevent damage, DS9 routes all power to the shields (this is to be FAIR, since DS9 would RAPE even a hundred ISD's...)

Defiant uncloaks to the port side, fires a spread of Quantum Torpedoes, hitting 4 ISD's total, either destroying them or disabling them.

ISD's focus on the current threat, the Defiant, and bring TL's and HTL's to bear.

Defiant makes a micro-warp jump, appears at the flank of the ISD's. Fires a barrage of Pulse phasers and proximity-detonation photon torpedoes. Multiple ISD's loose manuevering thrusters and primary engines + hyperspace.

Remaining ISD's turn to engage - a few glancing shots rock the Defiant before she performs a wide-arc warp strafe, focusing micro-photon torpedoes on the turret batteries of ISD's.

At this point, we're looking at at least a dozen or two ISD's disabled or destroyed... by the DEFIANT alone.

If DS9 were to join in the fray... god help them.


Another scenario - Executor vs Enterprise-E

Executor starts charging primary weapons + co-axial superlaser.

Ent-E simply manuevers around it. Co-axial superlasers is now useless as the Executor can't HOPE to out-manuver the Enterprise.

Executor unleashes barrage of TIE fighters and bombers, LTL, TL, HTL, and Ion Cannon fire.

Ent-E's shields drop to approx 70% before remodulating to adequately deflect or absorb ion cannon fire. HTL's miss the Enterprise way wide, LTL's glance off the navigational deflector, and TL's hit now and then for minimal damage.

Enterprise launches a quick volley of phaser strikes, obliterating the TIE squadrens... or it could just ram them *shrugs* With those pests out of the way, she systematically removes each HTL turret and Ion Cannon turret via tractor beams and rapid phaser strikes.

Boarding parties beam over an take the ship via wide-spread phaser fire.

 

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i don't think so, if it's just UFP against GE the feds can't hope to win an offensive war. they can just defend as much as possible and wait for the GE to colapse on its own. even on a defensive, the imp numbers are to great. at least 25000 capitol ships. countless fregates and corvettes and a dosen SSDs. if we stick to conventional warfare (no technobubble, planetbusting or magic) the average UFP ship would need to be able to cope with 1000 GE ships to even match them 1 on 1. my simulation is not yet over, but if the GE decides to ruin its economy and likely colapse within 6 months they can overwealm the UFP with numbers. now the entire alpha quadrant (UFP, Klingons, Cardassians, Ferengi, Gorn...) might be a different ballpark. add beta quadrant (Romulans, Klingons and who knows what) and you have a slugging match on allmost equal terms. add gamma quadrant and the dominion and you can deflect any imperial incursion with allmost a certanty. add the Borg and the delta quadrant and it's cheating. you won't even need anything else. heck with all delta quadrant tech, you could probably invade the galaxy far far away. but in this case we'd had to add other factions from that galaxy to join the fight.

 

Hey...I can't find those pictures of the Mon Cal ship firing on the Star Destroyer in RotJ.

Could you pull them again?

 

I dunno mate... I think the heavier starbases (DS9, Starbase 001) could easily repel even the heaviest of the Imperial weapons short of the Planet Cracker itself... and even then they could probably re-direct the power via the shield grid. You saw how much ass-whoop DS9 dished out... and that's a glorified hulk of a station. Imagine what Fed HQ and Utopia Shipyards looks like!

 

Utopia isn't a Base station. It wouldn't be heavily armed but it might be Heavily defended.

Starbase 74 was massive far out powering DS9.

This is where I don't agree with Antaran.

Even if Star Fleet has only has 10,000 someodd ships the Fire power of those ships is considerably stronger than the main offensive weaponry of the GE, light turbo lasers. I've always said the GE would have to re gear it's warships with more Heavy Turbo laser if they hope to stand up even to a wing of Excelsior class starships. Light turbo laser fire is usely againt Starship. The Heavy Turrets are they're only hop if they can track them.

Problem is with bases...you never have to engage them head to head. You just bombard them from beyond orbit and outside there range.

 

Wow have you guys ever been busy

 

It's a fun discussion.

 

Where did the new heat come from? Seeing as it seemed like is was dead when i left it

 

who else....TWSCOTT but he hasn't had alot to say after we made head way.
We put together a encyclopedia listing for Star Wars vs Star Trek. but it seems it's been answered since page 600 40 something.

but there is still more work to do...We've got to figure out how powerfull the SD's main guns are...and it's possible to give a rough estimate based on the SD's volume and finding out how much destruction the Mon Calmari did in RotJ.

 

i'll try do dig them out. i've been so buisy at work lately and i've formated my HD last weekend, i can't remember where i put the backups.

 

i figure my estemates on a pure class to class comparison. if ISDs are GE flagships and GCSs are UFP flagships tehn the GE hass confirmed 25000 flagships. the UFP could not have more then 250 (which is in my opinion far overestemated, i'd go with 50-60 max). if so 1 GCS would have to be able to take on 100 ISDs by itself which is allso unlikely. if UFP has 5-10000 otherships of diverse classes (from light patroll ships to heavy cruisers) then the empire has at least 500000 or more equivalents. that means 1 average UFP ship would need to overpower 50 average GE ships. more optimistic but still high-fetched. after all many UFP ships are scouts and fregates (maybe up to 50%).

take into account the ability of the empire to concentrate its forces thanx to hyperjumps and it is very easy for them to acheave local superiority. UFP would have to split their forces betwean strategic sectors.

 

Except that, as we know, Starbase level phaser arrays (and indeed, Ship based phasers and torpedoes) far exceed the operational range of even HTL batteries

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Remember Antaran, the size of the ship does not a capital ship make.

A Nova class FRIGATE packs the same sheer punch as a Galaxy Class dreadnaught - what it lacks is the heavy armor and shields. It's also much FASTER than the galaxy (both at warp and impulse + manuvering)... this is due thanks to the power of the variable yield photon torpedo and, and of course to advancements in phaser technology.

Look at the USS Prometheus - it's an attack cruiser. Yet it could probably WHOOP the Galaxy Class in battle. The Multi Vector Attack Mode would definately help

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Don't assume the Federation made zero progress since Janeway got home - I'd be willing to bet good money those ablative armor generators are being developed very quickly (since when the future timeline Janeway went back to meet the current timeline janeway, they already had that technology and transphasic torps, which indicates in less than a human lifespan they made leaps and bounds in technological advances).

Now, if you pit, say, the Enterprise-E post-nemesis (with the second Quantum Torpedo tube in the turret + the new Regenerative shield systems and ablative armor) vs an ARMADA of ISD's... I'd say the Enterprise would STILL win.

Why?

Warp Strafing + Quantum an Photon torpedo bombardment. Once you deplete enemy defense, drop out of warp, concentrated phaser strike on one or two targets, and then microwarp jump into the middle of them. Stay there just long enough for the ISD's to start firing their big guns, then picard-maneuver. Now the ISD's are shooting each other trying to hit a shadow. Not only do you have the overwhelmingly superior firepower of the Enterprise to deal with, you have ISD's hitting ISD's with everything they have

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Antaran, please take stock of my words.

I said a Nova can OUTGUN, not DEFEAT, a Galaxy. This is because of the new technology in the ship. A Nova class, for it's size, carries almost 80% the firepower of a Galaxy class. What it lacks is sustainability. It cannot withstand the damage of a Galaxy class, nor can it continue to dish out the level of firepower a galaxy class can for as long as it can.

Also, remember, the way the older Galaxy class warp drive works compared to the newer Nova drive. The Nova makes use of a similar warp drive as the Defiant class, an we all know how powerful that "little" ship is.

Final Comparisons:

Nova Class Tactical:
6x Type IX Phaser Arrays
2x Fore Photon Tubes, Type-6 Mark-XXV torpedoes
1x Aft Photon Tubes, Type-6 Mark-XXV torpedoes
11 Asymmetrical peristaltic subspace graviton Regenerative Shield generators, protecting from 46% of the EM spectrum

Galaxy Class Tactical:
12 Type-X Phaser Arrays
1 fore torpedo tube, Type 5 Mark XXV Burst Fire (10 shot salvo)
1 aft torpedo tube, Type 5 Mark XXV Burst Fire (10 shot salvo)
12 clusters of 12 Symmetrical subspace graviton field generators, cover 30% of the EM Spectrum. Half form a bubble shield, half form a hull-hugging secondary shield.

Now, as I said - for it's size and class, the Nova outguns the Galaxy by far.

Now, GRANTED, the Nova class is an explorer... but Photon torpedos and high-output rapidly modulating phaser arrays make it a force to be reckoned with.

2) The Sovereign class has 4 known ships at present time.
USS Sovereign (NX-73811) later (NCC-73811)
USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-E)
USS Seleya - NCC-75635
USS Columbia - NCC-84981


The Prometheus has 1 known ship
USS Prometheus NX-59650

Now, do you really think a flight of ISD's can last against just these five vessels?

3) A Miranda class... are you kidding? That ship is... over 100 years old... how about, oh, I don't know... the Akira class? Or the Steamrunner class... or other ships that don't date to the days of Kirk?

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Modern Starships in mass production:

Akira Class Heavy Cruiser
Defiant class Heavy Destroyer/Escort
Intrepid Class Light Cruiser
Norway Class Medium Cruiser
Nova Class Scout/Science vessel
Sabre Class Heavy Frigate
Yeager Class Light Cruiser
Steamrunner class Artilliary Cruiser
Nebula Class Battlecruiser/Science Vessel/Mobile Shipyard (variants based on pod design)
Galaxy Class Dreadnaught

This doesn't include the hundreds or thousands of older vessels (like the Ambassador, Excelsior, Soyuz Class, and others) that have been constantly upgraded to keep in top fighting condition.

Then, you have experimental ships like the Prometheus and Sovereign classes, the uprated Galaxy-X classes, and other new ships of the sort.

Finally, don't forget the Wells class and Incursion class, temporal ships from the Future Federation that, at the first sign of danger to the timeline, would invade the battleground en-masse and utterly annihilate the Imperial Fleets with temporal weapons and shields that phase them out of reality, making it impossible to affect them.

 

this is what canon (or allmost canon) sais about Nova:

The Nova class was a type of Federation starship designed for short-term planetary research missions. It was placed in service starting in the mid-to-late 24th century.

Designed as a science and scout vessel

The Nova design had a maximum speed of warp 8.

This class had a small crew complement of about 80.

Though Novas were science vessels, they had a wide assortment of weaponry, allowing the vessel to handle many threats on its own. It was equipped with eleven strategically-placed phaser arrays: eight on the saucer and three on the secondary hull, two forward-facing photon torpedo launchers at the bow of the saucer opposite of the secondary deflector, and one aft-facing launcher.

The third, aft-facing torpedo launcher, was not displayed on the MSD.
end quote

as you see no mention of type IXs, and a warp core that can do a warp8 at most. don't compare this with a Defiant. Defiant is a pure warship and it comes with pulse phasers, ablative armour and quantum torpedoes. had nova been equiped with IXs it would replace the Excelsiors AND the Ambasodrs in combat duty.

it seams like Nova can't even outrun the GCS (except maybe on impulse).and do note that allthough Nova has 3 torpedo tubes, the size of the ship dictates there is no way they can match GCS's rate of fire AND ammo loadout. a GCS can smack 10 torps in a 1s salvo. not even the Sovereign can do that.

allso you underestemate the Galaxy. you take the Galaxy from early-mid TNG as your primary sample. but take a look at the Dominion war variant. in all those battles since the official declaration of war not a single Galaxy was lost and no Novas were used. actually the bulk of the forces were Mirandas with some Excelsiors as backup. Nebulas were rarer then GCSs and Akiras were just a bit more nomerous then the GCSs. Defiants numbers rised as the war pogressed, but the refited GCS showed more survavibility.

and finally take note there is only ONE confirmed operational Sovereign out there. this leeds to 2 possible interpretations:
I. E-E is the second one and the prototype was not operational at the time of its comission and did not enter active service (if at all) untill after the Dominion war.
II. E-E is rechristened Sovereign and DE FACTO the only Sovereign out there.

 

You have some greivous mis-information there.

The type IX is de-facto standard on ships comissioned around the time the Nova was.

The Sovereign can easily fire more torpedoes than a Galaxy class from the Quantum turret alone - this is because the Galaxy can fire a burst of TEN, then has to spend a while reloading, while the Sovereign can rapidly launch four, then a short pause, then another four. As we saw in Nemesis, the rapid fire launcher is far more effective.

Again, I was going by a weapons-per-tonne comparison... which puts the Nova and other "new" classes far ahead of the galaxy class behemoth.

The reason older ships were used for the bulk of the dominion wars is simple (and I believe Sisko even mentioned it) - until they could find a way to defend against Phased Polaron Beams, they didn't want to risk large, difficult-to-replace vessels. The Galaxy class was the second to be refit to withstand the PPB, with the Nebula being the class to pioneer the tech (the Nebula is the smaller varient of the Galaxy, hence why they have the same Saucer)

There are THREE confirmed Sovereigns, the USS Sovereign (as voiced by Picard in First Contact), the USS Enterprise, and the USS Columbia, referenced in Nemesis.

Why do you think the Sovereign was re-christened Enterprise? Mate, that doesn't happen. You do not re-name the ship of the line for any reason... just like we still have the Space Shuttle Enterprise...

Finally: A Galaxy class Dreadnaught would be utterly and totally raped by a Sovereign class Battlecruiser. There are 5 key reasons for this:

1) The Sovereign uses a much more powerful M/AM reactor. This is to power the new weapon and shield systems, as well as allow for much more power to be dumped into the Engines for better acceleration and handling.

2) The Sovereign uses Regenerative Shields, which are overlapping sets of redundent generators that, when one set becomes weaker, the other takes over. The reason the Ent-E got spanked so hard in Nemesis is, without main power, she couldn't keep her Regenerative Shields online. Likewise, the Galaxy class warp drive cannot sustain the power draw for Regenerative shields.

3) Quantum Torpedoes, 'nuff said.

4) Higher-output phaser systems.

5) The Sovereign, being slightly smaller than the Galaxy class, has FAR larger Impulse engines and much more powerful maneuvering thrusters. It could, literally, run circles around the old Gal and pound it to death.

 

1. source please!!!! if Xs were heavy weapons used on dreadnoughts and IXs were used on Ambasadors (again large shps) in the most optimistic twist, i'd classify Nova's phasers as VIIIs possibly VIIs. there is no way a scout to carry weapons that heavy. i have an episode where cardassians clearly state what is considered military grade. i'll post it later when i get home.

2. true but they would need to maintain their torpedo lock and angle. GCS can fire and forget 10 torps, the pulse launcher (present only on the SCS) only 3 (or in only one case 4). that is 3 to 1.

3. irelevant. the ability to maintain firepower is what is at stake here. can Nova take on more ships at once or not.

4. no the only reason older ships were used is because that is what they've got (probably at least 40% recomissioned to keep up with Dominion).

5. i have FC on tape. Picard sais no such thing. in Nemessis there is no mention of a sovereign ship. i have that on tape too. fan fiction and games do not count. games do not count.

6. the same reason Sao-Paolo was rechristend Defiant. not to let a legend die.

7. nobody ever said otherwise. but it looks like the price of feilding one is too high. probably more then 3 post Dominion GCSs and 3 of those are bound to take on the SCS.