Star Wars vs Star Trek

You know Mars13 you no clue as to anything in reality. Not an insult, just a fact. You're all style over substance. And even that style is bullshit.

You can't claim a legitimate victory so you grasp at straws, distort canon, resort to outright lying and flames.

You want to claim every advantage for ST. Even ones that do not exist. You claim that nothing can stand up to your favorite little program. You don't go by canon numbers or abilities. You exaggerate every positive and ignore every negative.

The you turn around ad demolish every advantage SW has and then claim they have weaknesses they don't have. You nitpick, insult, and denegrate everything they can can do. You search for loopholes and provide smoke an mirrors.

I at least concede what the Federation can do. it just isn't much. I concede the Borg would be tough to eradicate.

 

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that wasnt a rebuttle or contrary evidence. that was subjective opinion.and when your every other word is an insult,thats called flaming,im posting FACTUAL tech info,thats called POSTING.

post EVIDENCE next time not flames.talking wont win ANY battle.


if i exagerated,where?

if i overestimated,when?

if i lied,what about?

and by ''distort canon''you mean,what?i proved some NONCANON websites power estimations grossley wrong if thats what you ment.


and the milkyway and the SW galaxy are about the same size,so it will take sw just as long to map the milkyway as it did its own galaxy.

and that assuming no one messes with your navigation relays you rely on for navigation and communication .

and the side by side pics of SW vs ST PROVE the feds are MORE then capable of handling imperial ships.and that ST weapons are JUST as powerful if not MORE SO!

if you dont belive it,make your own comparison pics.

 

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http://flickr.com/photos/72609707@N00/


please tell me what i exagerated and lied about in these pics.


unlike your god STardestroyer.net whose power levels went from 7kilotons to 500gigatons by just MAKING UP NUMBERS.



i have TO SCALE pictorial proof ST ships can destroy SW ships in ONE shot.

and stop pouting because i unveiled ALL your dilusion of SW
uber-firepower .

 

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No it was a statement of fact.

I didn't challenge you to a debate. If you want a debate try Michael Wong. I'm sure you'll find it enlightening.

When you claimed transwarp drive can cross the distances of the galaxy in minutes. It can only do that in a Transwarp corridor.
When you claimed the borg become 'Immune' to weapons. It has been shown time and time again they just become resistant.
When you claimed that Star Fleet had many thousands of starships.
and many more

See above

When you claimed the Enterprise E blew up a Borg cube in one shot
When you claim that the Borg can assimilate anything and no one can stop them, despite the several races that regularly reist them.
When you claim that the figures Brian Young calculated on the TurboLaser commentaries are complete bullshit.

No, when you try to claim certainty with interference from the Q or species 8472
When you try to distort how ST universe works.
When you immediately discount any logical conclusion with wild assertions.

 

yeah,i shouldnt use species found in MY galaxy in a vs.



and i PROVED his numbers DEAD wrong,they go from 7kt to 500GT WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE just SPECULATION.

and a leap from 7kt to 500GT needs some DAMN GOOD explination.YOU just take EVERYTHING on that website as ABSOLUTE fact without even fACT CHECKING it.



and you claimed YOUR OPINION as fact? funny how all those SUBJECTIVE terms you uses dont imply fact,but rather opinion.

also,only 1 race has ever been IMMUNE to the borg,and that was 8472,and you have seen there planet killer weapons and physical strength[they are the ONLY species in their ENTIRE UNIVERSE,they KILLED everything else,that means they are the strongest in their UNIVERSE,not one dinky dot of space].

some have held out,but the borg dont care if you hold out for years or MELLENIA,eventualy every race that has fought them has LOST.

and ALL borg ships can activate transwarp,the hub is just an expressway that allways open.

http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Transwarp_coil

http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Transwarp_hub

 

In Canon? Well. I'm no Bach. So let me try a simple one.

Row, row, row your boat.
Gently dow the stream.

Merrilly, Merrily, Merrily,
Row, row, row, your boat,
Life is but a dream,
Gently down the stream,

Row, row, row, your boat,
Merrily, Merrily, Merrily,
Gently down the stream,
Life is but a dream,

Should I continue?

Ick. I'm all covered in dork juice.


Anyway.
Don't expect me to keep coming in here and continuing this 'conversation'.
My point was simple.

When I said fair, I wasn't talking about "All's fair in love and war'. I think the context in which I used it made that plain. Well. Except to a fanatic who refuses to listen to reason, anyway. I meant fair in the sense that it wouldn't be so easy for the Empire to just pop up in Earth's home system like that.

For one, I think that Mars makes a decent point about gold. I'm sure as hell no expert, but I have wondered myself about this gold-pressed latinum garbage that the little monkeys are always clamoring for and it makes sense that it can't be replicated. I will say that a few tons of gold might have some value as replicators do require, if I recall correctly, some kind of resources to produce what they produce, but gold doesn't seem to be especially valuable.
Meh. Anyway.

Another point being that star charts might, and in fact most likely would not, contain all the information required for safe hyperspacial travel. Why? Because they don't need to. If hyperspace doesn't exist in the Federation universe, then there is no reason for such extensive mapping. I'm not saying that such information doesn't exist. I'm just saying it doesn't exist on your standard star chart.

Also, I tend to believe that while the Federation is quite open about things, they most likely will tend to obscure certain things about their home sector. Why? Just because I say so. An ounce of prevention and all that.

And as to the wormhole. Fair enough. Fair enough. But, then one must consider the location where the wormhole is. The sensor grid that must be crossed by SW vehicles on the way to Earth. Etc.... Can vehicles be detected in hyperspace? I'm sure you'll say not. But, the fact is that SW hyperspace has never been tested against ST sensors.

In fact, who can say if hyperspace even will work by the physical lawas of the ST universe? The Empire may well find itself in a universe where it doesn't have faster than light travel as it has never, as far as I know, developed warp speed technology.


Anyway.
Blah.
What a waste of bandwidth.
I'm just saying that your scenario is totally twisted to the Empire because you've arbitrarily decided that acquiring the required information for safe hyperspatial travel is a piece of cake.
Well. I've arbitrarily decided that it's not.
So there.
Nanny nanny boo boo.
No take backs.
And you sure as hell can't double stamp a triple stamp.
I win.

 

HAHAHAHA,that was the funniest most correct assesment of SW tech that i have seen in a while.


but we will ASSUME hyerdrive CAN work in the trek galaxy[just no where NEAR as effecient as in the SW galaxy because it has not been mapped for hyperspace travel ],and that ships in hyperdrive CANT be detected by ANY species,YET.


a side note,

it took the empire 10 YEARS to map out a SMALL uncharted part of the SW galaxy,and it took HUNDREDS of years to map the ENTIRE galaxy.

so compare that to the borg transwarp of MINUTES across the galaxy and youll see how DISADVATAGED sw REALLY is.


and heres some pics http://flickr.com/photos/72609707@N00/

 

and heres some insight into ACTUAL ship numbers for JUST the federation.

stardestroyer.net uses the SLOWEST manufacturing race in the alpha quad as TYPICAL manufacturing numbers.

cardassians produce 618 total ships per year.and they are on the LOW end of ship numbers for the alpha quad.

the FEDS have 150 planetary memebers,NOT PLANETS,planetary memebers,some memebers have DOZENS of planets[star fleet has hundreds of colonies]and have MANY more ships then cardassians.

so even if EACH memeber produced the lowest limit of 600 ships a year,then thats 92,000 ships per year BARE MINIMUM for JUST THE FEDS!!! that doesnt include klingons or romulons,or any of the other races in the alpha quad.

the fleets of 400 ships in the domnion war were JUST star fleet[theres a diffrence between starfleet and the federation] and klingonsand romulons,and they were the ones within a few days travel to the battle.

and starships last MUCH langer then 20 years,star fleet keeps ships until they are destroyed,they almost NEVER get mothballed unless they are damaged and not worth reparing. some ships have lasted 70 years in star fleet and are JUST as powerful as new ships.


so,JUST the alpha quad has a MINIMUM of 100,000 NEW ships a year,10-20% are galaxy class equivelent,so thats a MINIMUM of about 15,000 galaxy class equivelent ships a year.

and they have been building ships for hundreds years,and ships last until they exlplode,so even if 80% of ALL ships get blown up EVERY 50 years,and they last on average of 50 years then the alpha quad has a minimum of 1 MILLION ships in JUST the alpha quad,thats
150,000 galaxy equivelent ships.

and the borg DWARF ALL manufacturing in the alpha quad.the only ones who come close are the dominion.

and since the borg have over assmilated 10,000 species and have amassed 500 BILLION drones and if each cube holds 200,000 drones,thats a MINIMUM of 2.5 MILLION cubes!!!

althou the borg took heavy losses from 8472,they can regen 80% of a ship in a day,thats MUCH bigger then a SD,A DAY PER SHIP!!

AND SW CANT EVEN ENGAE ANY OF THESE SHIPS IN BATTLE BECAUSE YOU CANT ATTACK AT FTL SPEEDS!!!!


i hope this clarifies some of the BLATENT LIES you consider FACTUAL TRUTH from stardestroyer.net.

 

i have finalized some scale schematics of ship comparisons.


its the first one-


http://flickr.com/photos/72609707@N00/

 

Hyperspace and Hyperdrives (whichever goes with ST and SW) are both old and outdated. Dune using Fold space with Navigators has no need for star charts since the Navigators see the paths before they travel them. Also, since Fold space is instant the boys from Dune could be there and gone before either ST or SW knew what hit them. But that's just my .02

 

transwarp takes minutes to cross the entire galaxy.



and where is that floating fat man?

 

Transwarp would still be slower than Fold Space then

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As for the Baron, who cares about him? He was the leader of the Harkonnen, killed by Alia, daughter of Paul. What's your infatuation with him?

 

Reasons Why Star Trek would Win

Star Trek:
TransWarp drive
Phasers
Quantum & Photon torpedoes
Transporters
Warp bombs
Replication technology
Trilythium Torps( can destroy stars)
Genesis Device(Destroys and reforms planets)
Doomsday Machine(As seen on TOS, destroys planets/processes them)
Cloaking device and Phased Cloak
Time Travel Technology/devices
Self Replicating Mines
The Borg :
Transwarp drive
Assimilation technology
Adaptable shields
Much more powerful phasers
More powerful hand & ground based phasers

The combined might of the Alpha Quadrant, Borg, and Dominion ,Species 8472,Hirogen, Jem Hadar, AND the Q continuum (Plus the other telepathic/telekinetic races)

Keep in mind that they do not have to be allies, they can all attack independently.

 

As said by the mighty mars13 and contested by any one of authority

Actually the Tholians have the low end, but of course you would not know that.

The very small and inconsequential Naboo cluster represents 124 stars systems and over three thousand stars. And they are considered like Lichtenstein of the Republic

Can we say dumber than a rock? The WHOLE Cardassian empire builds around 600 ships every year. The Federation probably does 50% more and decomissions 600 ships a year.

Numbering has no meaning. Your can be of the 8th fleet and have only four fleets in you entire military hierarchy

So some old Dreadnoughts of the old Republis serve in the New Republic five or six hundred years old. Although i do have to call you on the bullshit of them not throwing away vessels. Vessels are decommissioned all the time. And some older models are rebuilt becuase of ease.

So from your flawed resoning the Dominion should have been repulsed by Tens of thousands of ships. The Borg should have met tens of thousands of ships at wolf 359. Just think about this. The Federation barely has two hundred billion. they couldn't support millons of ships.

Hmm so you are impressed with 500 billion. Coruscant has that many people living there. The Empire has billions of worlds and has catalogued 10,000,000+ species. The Borg are an insignificant bug. they are infantile, slow, stupid and you are grossly inflating the number of cubes as you and I both know that they put hundreds of billions of drones on their planets.

you cannot regenerate a ship that is destroyed and even a pair Nebulan B Frigates can muster the kind of firepower needed to do that.

the beauty part is to win wars you don't have to. We can reach your homeworlds with you having no chance of stopping us then destroy you. Plus the Entire Milky way galaxy has this bad habit of engaging in sublight battle

Funny i only had to paraphrase this and correct Spelling errors
I do hope that this brings to light the blatant lies that you have been spreading to cover for your fear of the truth.

BTW Real size comparisons for Star Wars versus the Federation.

Fun in scale

 

Why Star Wars wins

Hyperdrive
Non Frequency Shields
Neutronium Impregnated Armor
Turbolasers that can vaporize a Constitution class.
Resonance Torpedoes
Proton Torpedoes, Concussion Missles, and Energy torpedoes
Ion Cannons
Star Fighters with and shield comparable to an Ambassador class
Gravity Well generators
Working cloaking Devices
Millions of worlds and Hundreds of trillions of beings
Death Stars
Sun Crushers
World Devourers
World Devastators
Galaxy Guns
The Force
Dovin Basals
World Ships
Jedi Knights
Sith Lords
Dark Jedi
Bacta
Wookies
...........

And my list could go on for days and i wouls still just be in the cool stuff

 

The charts would have everything needed for Hyperspace travels becuas the things that make Warp travel a bear are much more numerous and include all of the same problems as Hyperspace troubles.

You need shipping to be able to get to your planet and seeing as yoou have never faced an enemy who can just Hyperspace in spreading disinformation is pointless. In fact considering some of the other idiocies of Star trek they wouldn't think of it

Finally the easiest thing in the world to get is basic information. i was just assuming no Federation vessel would simply hand it over when the Empire played nice at first.

Thus my argument easily survives your rebuttal.

 

Mars, since you made no response to my post, I can only assume that you agreed with me in every aspect. At any rate...

Since you are so happy about your hundreds of years of ships and all that other bullcrap, I'd like to remind you that this is all parts of both universes at the same time. Meaning that SW has something like 25,000 years of ships, and that's just the hyperspace capable ones from the Humans, Duros, ect. That doesn't even bring the ancient races like the Quella to bear. We have millions of capital ships from the Empire's 20 odd years in supreme power alone. And supreme power isn't even true, because of the Corporate Sector Authority, the Hutts, the Hapan Cluster, the Chiss Ascendancy, the Lords of the Expanse, etc. The Yuuzhan Vong are from another galaxy, and the Charon are from a separate but adjoining universe. You seriously underestimate us. Now, if that weren't enough, add in the 20,000 years of the Old Republic, the glorious Sith empires of yore, the precosmogoverning- body aliens, the ancients, the 25 years of the New Republic, the forces of the Rebel Alliance, the forces of the Confederacy of Independent Systems, the Ssi-Ruvi Imperium, the Yevethan Black Fleet, the Imperial Remnant and Resurrected Emperor, the Smuggler's Alliance, and for good measure, the Star Forge and all of its manufacturing glory. Very far superior numbers to your pitiful couple of million capital ships and lack of fighters or other light support craft.

And, as for hyperspace travel, I believe there was a mistake in its interpretation. You see, a map and set of astrogation charts are helpful in plotting a course, but are not necessary. In fact, sometimes, the navigation computer of the ship or on an onboard astromech droid are not required for plotting the courses, as it is a common math course that can be taken. Some races even have such a penchant for mathematics that infants are capable of plotting atrogation courses in their heads. In the case of not having maps, two things can be done. Either 1) new courses can be blazed by scouts or 2) a blind jump can be made. Most ships have an override on the hyperdrive to pull it out before it strikes something in space, meaning that this can be done without risk to the ship's hull integrity or crew. However plotting new courses would be better. Why? You see, most astrogation routes were created when the hyperdrives were, about 25,000 years ago. Hyperdrives were slow then, something like a 20x or 30x rating (the lower the better, the Falcon has a 0.5x). Now if a ship like a Longprobe Y-Wing (common recon vessel, 1x) was used to plot courses, and the New Republic easily had thousands of these on hand, then it would be short work to start mapping out the ST galaxy. The thought that the SW universe hasn't mapped out the main galaxy is bull, since the multitude of races that are mentioned extend over the entire galaxy, and then some. It is inconcievable that out of the databases of all the afformentioned governments, there are any places that at the very least haven't been seen by at least one cartographer. Sorry, no deal.

 

it took 10 years for the modern empire to map a SMALL percentage of uncharted space in YOUR OWN galaxy,and that was WITH scouting droids.or did you not see the map?

it took sw THOUSANDS of years to map there own galaxy,to suggest that they can do it WHILE attacking everything in another galaxy in less time then ANYTHING else has been mapped in your own galaxy doesnt make any sense.

hyperdrive isnt the AWSOME galaxy crossing device you make it out to be.it has MAJOR drawbacks.

for example,without THOUSANDS of years of relays in place hyperdrive is VERY slow.and it can only go in a straight line.

and you cant even attack at FTL anyway,so you cant return fire when you get here.


and 25,000 years is NOTHING compared to some of the older species in ST. the voth are at least over 65 millions years old.
our galaxy was seeded by beings 4 BILLION years ago.
the borg are THOUSANDS of years old.and the vulcans and romulons were BOTH thousands of years old when the split thousands of years ago.

your age means nothing.

 

Okay, its been said by everyone now, including myself previously. Mars13 will not respond to any reasonable form of debate, or accept the facts behind numbers. He has a kind of bullheaded ignorance born of faith inhis galaxy, and you cant fuck with faith. There is nothing that will change his mind, no amount of facts, or of accepting his reasoning with objectivity.

You can not use science to beat an ignorant fool encased in his faith. Thats a fact.

I suggest we stop trying, and focus on people interested in intelligent debate.

Not people who TALK LIKE THIS to try and make some point.

 

[Hint: Try the ignore feature.]