"Star Trek Movie" ***Possible Spoilers***

Did anyone read the Countdown comic? I finally got to yesterday (lol don't laugh)...and I was right. This relaunch would be so much better served as a book

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Countdown explained the link between Spock and Nero, showed Nero's descent into insanity (albeit quite contrived), explained how the hell that mining ship became such a juggernaut (no, the Narada was originally not as powerful!) and gave us cameos of our favourite characters to say goodbye too.

 

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These were extraordinary circumstances; Nero's ship was about to destroy Earth, and boarding his ship was the one chance to save the planet. They would have beamed over anyone and everyone who could carry a phaser, probably including a few guys with a suicide bomb to take out his ship if it looked like the away teams were losing.

 

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Gave the movie a second look, and my mind automatically filled in the blanks helped by the Countdown comic. There was still a few misses (eg Nimoy Spock in the movie had a line that made it apppear that the first time he encountered Nero was after Romulus was shattered...in Countdown, Spock and Nemo were key in organizing the Red Matter device in the first place, before the cataclysm).

 

Actually, in Kirk's time, that was not a rule. Kirk almost always led the away team. Matter of fact, I can't even recall an episode where Kirk did NOT lead the team.

In Picard's time, the rule was in place...presumably because Starfleet either lost too many captains, or perhaps wanted to keep the Fleet ships safe (what with the captains' codes et al.).

At any rate, Kirk had no limitations as to leaving this ship on a mission.

 

I totally missed the beaming over factor, which is another HUGE plot hole.

Nero had no shields up?

 

And not only that, the plan was to beam over as the Narada passed Saturn. Because they had to be "this" close.

So, we see this beautiful scene of the Enterprise jumping into Titan's (Saturn's largest moon's) atmosphere and then raising up through the mist (reminiscent, I might ad you of the Enterprise in "Khan" slipping up out of the Mutara Nebula to fire the death shots at the Reliant) to beam on board the Narada which has... already arrived in Earth's orbit????

If they could beam from that far away, why the big deal about waiting 'till the Narada passed Saturn. Who the fuck cares!!!? Just beam into Jupiter's orbit, and do your business from there. I can't believe that their weapons could quickly reach Enterprise from--what?--350 million miles away.

~String

 

This is compounded by the way Kirk and Scotty were able to beam back onto the Enterprise from Hoth. The Enterprise was planning to rush off to join with the rest of the fleet, and Kirk, Scotty, and Old Spock were dinking around on Hoth for hours before they beamed back to the Enterprise - by which time I assume it was waaaaaaay the fuck out of the system. Given that amazing demonstration of transporter range, it seems like the Enterprise wouldn't even need to be anywhere in the solar system to transport people onto Nero's ship.

The answer, of course, is that at some point one of the writers said "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if at the end the Enterprise, like, hid in Titan's atmosphere? We could have a cool shot of it rising out of the smog and everything!" And everyone else said "Yeah, that will be awesome!" But then they never bothered to actually come up with a coherent reason for it to happen, so they just sort of had them do it.

Also, did anyone understand how the Enterprise was able to get to Earth before Nero? I'm not entirely sure that's a plot hole, there might have been some explanation that I missed.

 

This is exactly how half of the movie was written, and it shows.

The movie made tons of money and got the MTV crowd to see it. My fear beforehand was that it would be exactly what it was: A movie that made tons of money and got the MTV crowd to see it. Seriously, the plot was a joke and Kirk and Spock were broody, unlikeable 8th graders trapped in adult bodies. The more I think about the movie, the more I dislike it.

 

No, they had to beam to the Narada as it passed Saturn so that the Enterprise itself wouldn't be detected in the background radiation of Saturn's moons, and the Narada crew would not be on the alert for Starfleet beamer on boarders! (This of course being a typical Trek plot device, except in this case it's sort of a reach since I imagine a Borg enhanced Romulan warship would be able to cut thru that interference)...

The Narada was upgraded immensely by the survivors of the Romulan military. It was no longer a simple mining vessel. (See "Countdown").

Scotty's long beam formula had to be used for the transport, so Enterprise could indeed send staff to the Narada from Saturn. However, since Scotty did not release his formula for general use...Scotty had to be the one to do it.

Nimoy Spock was dinking around being all emotionally compromised. Kirk and Scotty didn't spend that much time after Nimoy Spock gave up the transport equation.

Also, Narada arrived at Earth and started to drill the crust next to the San Fran bridge before Enterprise arrived in the Solar System. Kirk and Sylar Spock beamed on, stole the Jellyfish (this ship was a Geordi La Forge special btw - "Countdown"

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recall it was only commissioned by the Vulcan Science Academy, not designed) and attacked the drill that was already active against Earth.

Nasor however hit the nail on the head. The whole weakness in the transporter thing was the range that Scotty's formula granted the Enterprise. It is left up to the viewer to guess or accept that the distance between Saturn and Earth was about equal to the distance travelled by the Enterprise (toward the armada, away from Vulcan) after stranding Kirk. Certainly both were within range of Scotty's transporter enhancements.

If of course the Enterprise travelled at such a paltry distance before Kirk returned, one wonders wtf Sylar Spock was thinking...

 

This was my sole fear...bring Star Trek to a level that Star Wars settled for. The popularity vote.

But, whatcha gonna do...it's all about the money.

 

I'm sorry but relying on a comic to make sense of your movie is just bullshit. A movie should have everything within it that is necessary to understand it and believe the story it is telling.

 

That's a strong opinion, and I see what you mean...the comic contents could have been included in the movie. (If Levar Burton and Patrick Stewart had agreed to; and well, I doubt including Brent Spiner would have been a realistic goal)

However, I had started contributing to this thread way back when stating that this relaunch would be much better served through literature. For the mere comic to be that much more detailed and coherent than the movie speaks volumes to me.

IMO, the movie becomes a slightly-less-than-bitter pill to swallow if the Countdown comic is taken into consideration.

 

Okay, but they specifically said that they would beam aboard the Narada as it passed Saturn. By the time they beamed onboard the Narada, it had already started drilling into the Earth's crust.

So... why all the hubbub about doing it as it passed Saturn? Apparently they can beam from several light years away (this being evident from the fact that Scotty and Kirk beamed onboard the Enterprise from Delta Vega after the Enterprise was in warp for--what?--an hour or so.

~String

 

So was the Enterprise waiting at Titan to beam people over as the Narada passed on its way to Earth (meaning that the Enterprise must have arrived in the system first), or was the Narada already at Earth by the time the Enterprise arrived in the system?

It only seems to make sense if the Enterprise arrives in the system before the Narada, and is able to position itself at Titan before the Narada closes to within sensor range. In which case, I wonder how the Enterprise as able to get their first (especially since it was traveling the wrong way for hours before Kirk beamed back aboard and convinced young spock to head for Earth instead). Yet it appears that the drill is already deployed and working by the time Kirk and Spock transport over, meaning they didn't transport to the Narada as it passed Saturn. See why I'm confused?

Of course, that also ignores the question of why the hell the Narada would be passing Saturn on its way to earth in the first place.

I got the impression that Kirk was on Vulcan's moon for hours before we got back to the Enterprise, once you factor in the hike + talking to old spock + scotty making whatever modifications he needed to make to the transporter.

 

To hell with the comic content. Make a movie that is plausible and sensible. Trash the drill and make the ship a warship full of military guys. Problem solved. This makes the movie work better and removes the need for uber-geek explanations. Audiences get the idea of a warship traveling back in time being more powerful.

Maybe, but the point was to relaunch the movie franchise, not the books or comics or what have you.

Me too.

Perhaps.

But nobody but Trekkies are ever going to read that comic. And I reiterate that I shouldn't have to watch webisodes or read comics or study wikipedia or so on and so forth to get a movie. And, in fact, the only genre this happens in is Science Fiction, where we are constantly told about how all this outside material is needed to grasp something. That's not a road many are willing to take, and it's just lazy storytelling if you ask me.

 

No, they said the Narada passes Saturn soon. Chekov (gawd I loved him lol he was so adorable and funny in the role), said that if Enterprise warps in and stops alongside (or near or whatever) one of Saturn's moons - "say Titan", the interference should block Narada's sensors from detecting Enterprise.

Of course by the time Enterprise warps to Saturn from where Sylar Spock had taken them, Narada had the time to reach to Earth.

But, like I said, the linchpin was the lack of connection between the two distances.

 

No offense, but I'm pretty sure that's not what happened in the movie. If that's how it was presented in the comic, I suspect it was the comic writer attempting to change the story to cover up the inconsistency. They talk about hiding at Titan and beaming onto the Narada as it passes by. The idea seems to be that hiding at Titan is a way to get close to the Narada without it simply destroying them. They seem to be assuming that 1) they will get there first, even though they are setting out hours behind the Narada, and 2) they need to get close to the Narada to beam over to it. If they weren't planning to be pre-positioned and beam over as the Narada passed close by, the fact that it will be going by close to Saturn on its way to Earth would have no relevance.

Then they arrive at Titan as planned, but the Narada is already at Earth doing its drill thing. Then they beam over to it from Titan anyway, leaving the audience to wonder why the hell they talked about beaming over when the Narada was "this close" if they can just beam people from Titan to Earth anyway.

Even ignoring all that, I don't understand the point of hiding in Titan's atmosphere at all. If they just came out near Saturn (but not doing the risky Titan maneuver) they would have been at least a light hour or so away from Earth, so there would be no risk from the Narada at all (unless Nero wanted to stop drilling and move his ship out to Saturn to attack them). So why even bother hiding?

Also, does anyone feel like calculating whether or not the Narada's course to Earth taking it past Titan would be more or less likely than Kirk randomly happening to put down within walking distance of Old Spock? I've not really sure which would would be more unlikely.

 

Personally I think they should have just made destroying planets a capability of the mining ship. It would make sense that it would need to tear things apart to get at the minerals (or whatever it's after). It would also nicely explain why the Narada had to do its drill thing, unlike the movie, which leave you wondering why the hell Nero bothered drilling to the planet's core before unleashing a black hole on it.

Then explain the time portal as an effect of whatever failed gadget Spock was using to try to save Romulus.

I agree completely (although I appreciate it that Ent-D is filling us in on what happens in the comic). I have exactly the same problem with "Donnie Darko," which people keep claiming is a great film, even though it's really just a nonsensical mess. People always like to say "Oh no, it totally made sense!" and then go on to explain stuff that they only understand because they watched the director's commentary or something.

 

No Enterprise-D is right. I just watched the movie again. They were using Saturn's rings to be invisible to the Nero's sensors. Then they beamed Kirk and Spock to Nero's ship which was already drilling earth. They weren't waiting for him to pass by or anything.