Star Trek = Communism

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by YinyangDK, May 17, 2008.

  1. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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    It's not really communism. First, while the state seems to own much of the property in ST, that is because the series are focused on Star Fleet personnel. There clearly were privately owned businesses and properties when dealing with individual citizens. There seemed to be no large "corporations" and so no equity markets (which led to the confusion about financial investments).

    The truth is that the economic of ST are mystery because there are things we do not know because they never established the underpinnings of society outside of Star Fleet. Star Fleets exact relationship to the federation is even a little murky is you only have the series to go on. They seem to be a cross between (i) NASA with an unlimited budget, (ii) the (interstellar) State Department and (iii) the Space Navy. (I am sure that there are books that describe their exact position in the Federation government better, I am just sure I have never read them).

    The reason ST does not explain these things is that they are not vital to the show. The show was about adventures in space, not hypothetical futuristic economics or constitutional government. They may mention "credits" from time to time or "liberty" and "freedom" as part of motivations for of plot points in a story, but it's giving the show too much credit to assume it had a coherent socio-economic backstory that was never fully set forth but was nonetheless fully developed. References to these things are about as well thought out as references to "Heisenberg compensators" that made the transporters work...in fact the compensators were *better* thought out because the shows *did* have scientific consultants. There were no socio-economic consultants involved.
     
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  3. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    And no, we don't need to get a room ....

    We tend to disagree about a good many things. I figure in light of that I should mention that your post cancels any need for me to make the point.

    Well said, sir.

    (Nor is this the only occasion I've found myself agreeing with one of your posts in recent days and weeks. To the other, I don't think I've mentioned that on those prior occasions.)
     
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  5. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    The replicators only seem to be able to make relatively simple items. We don't see them replicating, say, entire shuttle craft on demand. It appears that they can't replicate many types of sophisticated devices or medicines. Unreplicatable medicines are a recurring plot point in various episodes. Also, the existence of weapon merchants indicates that you can't simply replicate yourself an arsenal. People often comment that replicated food and drinks don't quite taste right. So it seems there would still be many things that people would want and that are not available in limitless abundance.
     
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  7. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Didn't Marx himself say that communism is the dictatorship of the proletariat?
     
  8. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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    Actually Marx said that communism was the state that came after the dictatorship of the proletariat. First, the proles have to overthrow the capitalists, then after society has been purged of its current systems, the proletariat control dissolves and the result of that is communism.

    It also does not mean there there would be a single dictator, but something more akin to democracy where only the proletariat dominates as a political power (and elects leaders who are easily recallable to serve short terms). By way of comparison, Marx saw the current system as a dictatorship too, save we live in a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, where the propetry owder have effective control.
     
  9. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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    A few economists have noted that pre-pubescent Spock received a lesson in good old fashioned microeconomics during his schooling. Not even the basic econ, either, but he was learning about non-rival, non-excludable goods and their counterparts, which is at least at the level of an intermediate course here in the 21st century.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2009

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