Splinter: Shorty's tantrum and related posts

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by shorty_37, Feb 21, 2008.

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  1. shorty_37 Go! Canada Go! Registered Senior Member

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    Moderator Note — This topic is a splinter from "Divorce Because Of".

    This is very typical of her posts though.

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    I don't know why you are being singled out here either. Most of the posters were all on the same page as you.

    Holy crap Tiassa, Is that post above long enough????? I think we all know what we posted

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    If me and 15ofthe19 posed the same question at almost the exact same time how is that being naive on my part?

    Btw: I would have asked the same questions be it any other member who said the same thing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2008
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  3. Bells Staff Member

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    Err no, most people were not on the same page as him or you for that matter. Maybe it is because we actually understood what she had written on the first page and then when she was pressured into saying why she finally did break it off, it kind of all came together.

    You kept repeating the same question, even though she had already said on the first page that she had dated for a year, was engaged for a year and then first had sex just before the wedding. This is after she had stated quite clearly that she was raised in a strict home where people did not have sex before marriage but she was glad she broke that rule otherwise she would have been stuck married to a pervert.

    Where Orleander speaks of how long they dated and when they had sex:

    This of course, came after she made the fairly direct statement that in her family, you didn't have sex before marriage and she was glad she broke that rule:

    By this point, one could begin to put things together into perspective. I mean honestly, it doesn't take a brain surgeon. A 5 year old would have been able to figure it out. But no. You, Mike and several others decided to push for an explanation, either out of your own stupidity or because you take some perverted pleasure in insulting and making her uncomfortable. I mean lets face it, it really wasn't any of yours or any other person's business, was it? And even after she gave the explanation, you still didn't get it? You still couldn't put two and two together and see that she hadn't had sex with the guy or been intimate with him until just before they were meant to be married? You missed those posts? Or failed to actually comprehend them?

    What the hell? Does it need to be drawn in pictures for you?

    It might seem so if the following is any indication:

    It was naive on both your parts.

    How hard is it to understand? She says quite clearly that they hadn't had sex until just before they were married, and she even gave the reason why. Then she is pressured and insulted into having to explain herself and you asked her why or how she hadn't known up until then?

    And the answer would have been the same. ie.. learn to read and comprehend, learn to keep track of what is said in the thread, learn to not hassle or gang up on other members (especially when you completely missed the points in the thread).. and most importantly, learn to mind your own business. I'm sure you're getting the drift here. It's simple really.

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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    (Insert title here)

    If you look up to #62, that post was originally going to open with a question about what if Orleander's partner had just flipped her over and pounded her in the ass. But then I realized she had answered that part of the issue herself, and there was no need for me to repeat that particular point.

    Additionally, notice that I used the phrase "kept on with her naivete". Looking to 15ofthe19 for justification speaks nothing of the earlier part, when you gave a thumbs up to the suggestion that Orleander was not "decent". Perhaps I'm simply being sexist here, but I do operate with the general belief that women are more aware of how women can be sexually violated than men tend to be. Maybe you've been blessedly free of sexual impropriety against your person. Or maybe it's because it was Orleander that you didn't stop to think about this before exploiting Mikenostic in order to swipe after your nemesis. Additionally, in #42, you made the point about impotence and "erectile dysfunction".

    At no point did you acknowledge the possibility that Orleander was not the purveyor of cruelty, but rather the object of it.

    And that does fit with the terms of whatever the disagreement is between you two.

    Does that mean you need it laid out that someone felt violated, exploited, or subject to demands beyond their boundaries?

    Look, being bad in bed does not simply mean being overanxious and spilling before you get the key in the door. It also can mean accidentally making sex painful even while one has the best of intentions. And it can also mean asking too much of a partner.

    And perhaps I'm naive, but I generally don't expect to be reminding a sexually-experienced woman of such notions.

    Oh ... I have done longer posts. I'm just tired of people's half-assed justifications that depend on misrepresentation of events. On those occasions, a play-by-play becomes necessary because, while I'm willing at some point to accept those justifications as genuine, I would like to know how to reconcile them with what appears to be the reality of the situation. Most, I find, simply decide their behavior isn't so important as to attempt the longer justification. Besides, this is Sciforums, so they can just pretend they were never challenged and go on behaving the same way in other discussions.

    Also, to make a note about the question, not every kink a guy has is proactive. Not every pervert is just going to flip you over and plant it in your backside, or cram it down your throat until you vomit. And Orleander did a fine job of making the point: Clive Barker, for instance, wrote an elaborate necrophilia scene in Galilee; it's not exactly the easiest thing to ask a woman to paint herself the colors of death and lie perfectly still on a block of ice long enough to steal the heat from her vaginal capacity and then play dead-weight while pussy, ass, and throat are violated. Even simpler things are delicate matters. Shit-eating? Hell, when she said, "Imagine the most vile sex act you can think of," I thought, He wanted her to stuff her twat with angry raccoons? And I couldn't help it; even I go for the joke in the face of something like that.

    Hell, I've been through it with a lover for whom pretty much anything made me a pervert. Fine, she doesn't like my standards? I'll ask her to do something she likes. What? She says even that makes her feel degraded? I actually tried to end the relationship because she didn't seem to like me, and she sure as hell didn't seem to like the sex, and, frankly, nobody should have to feel degraded just to get an orgasm. But, no, she insisted that I was wrong. Wept. Pled. And when I gave over, we ended up having years' worth of ridiculously boring sex. My joke is that masturbation was more gratifying, except it wasn't a joke. Seriously, between foreplay (lick it 'til she's ready) and intercourse (too fast ... too slow ... too deep ... too shallow ...), the whole thing was supposed to take about five minutes tops. So I'm aware that it's horribly perverse, by at least one person's standards, to want a lover to fuck to mutual exhaustion. Life goes on.

    But, shit, do you really think it's wise to ask about the kinky stuff at that point? Absolutely not.

    So in a scenario like Orleander's, involving that kind of upbringing and adherence to such morals, I don't find it remotely surprising that it took two years to figure out. As Orleander noted, she's glad she figured it out before marriage. Many people in her position aren't so lucky.

    And one last thing:

    Oh, right. See Bells' response on this point. And as to why Mike was singled out? Because he made the point about judgment:

    "Hey, thanks for giving us, up until now, virtually NO information on why it was so bad, to base our judgement on, but whatever."​

    Point being that judgment is not necessary.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2008
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  7. shorty_37 Go! Canada Go! Registered Senior Member

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    I can't beleive how you are defending Orleander so much. I mean it is actually pretty funny. You must think she is pretty weak that she can't defend herself. I could barely get through all the LONG POSTS of BS!!!

    The part about the thing we don't understand that it is none of our business. LMAO
    She is always telling us her business, nobody is pressuring her to do so. Since when ? It is funny because when I talk about something personal, I get laughed at or insulted by some of the same ppl that are defending Orleander. I get told all the time that it is ME who is always talking about my personal life and if I do be prepared to hear whatever anybody wants to say about it.

    If she is going to tell us about her personal life so much, or her sex life which comes up alot. She is opening herself up to this. If she doesn't want ppl asking her questions or making judgements then maybe she should keep it to herself.

    THAT IS WHAT YOU ALWAYS TELL ME!!! So why is it different for her?


    So me and 15ofthe19 are both naive, for asking the same question. Mike is retarded for thinking the same thing. The other posters who didn't get it either are all stupid too............

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    Btw: Why are most of the posts being deleted?
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2008
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Mod Hat - Response

    Mod Hat — Response

    The "long posts of BS" contain something that you're unwilling to give. As such, I don't wonder that you feel like some sort of victim here. However, that's the thing:

    What the hell are you talking about?

    And no, do not answer that here. What you need to do is put together a rational, thoughtful argument on this point, supported by examples of what you're talking about and some sort of reference (e.g., links) for your reader to follow, and appeal either to me via private message or, if you think I'm so unfair, someone else up the ladder. If, after you've been through that routine, you don't like the answers you get, post your lament in SFOG and propose a solution.

    In the meantime, mucking up topics with this kind of whining doesn't do you much good.
     
  9. shorty_37 Go! Canada Go! Registered Senior Member

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    12,140
    It is simple. I have been told by (not you tiassa) Sam and Bells on many occassions that if I open up and talk about my personal life members can pick it apart as much as they want. They can make judgments, laugh or make insulting remarks. Afterall it is the internet what do I expect? and I should keep it to myself then.

    Now you are saying that what we were saying to Orleander was none of our business.
    Well she openly spilled her business, of course there will be questions. This is a forum afterall where we discuss things. But now comes these huge posts defending her. I mean I didn't call her names did I? Was I so mean? I simply could not understand what the hell she was talking about. So I asked questions as others did.

    If she didn't want anybody to know about it, or ask questions then she should have kept it to herself.

    That is what I have been told MANY times. IT IS AN INTERNET FORUM. IF YOU SHARE INTIMATE DETAILS OF YOUR LIFE BE SURE YOU CAN HANDLE THE QUESTIONS AND INSULTS.

    So I wonder why this is different in Orleanders case?

    Anyway :zzz: I am not talking about this anymore. I am done!
     
  10. 15ofthe19 35 year old virgin Registered Senior Member

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    You've got to be fucking kidding me....

    I'm naive? For asking a follow up question to the most limb-line post in the thread? You're saying a poster can dangle a worm that might as well be a New York Strip off the side of the boat, but when somebody takes a bite, they were wrong to do so?

    You can go EFF yourself if that's what you really think. Orly put something out there; something obviously designed to provoke a response. If you can't see that, you need to turn in your mod hat.

    This fucking place is going to hell in handbasket. The mods are interlopers. That was never part of the spirit of the idea of moderation.
     
  11. 15ofthe19 35 year old virgin Registered Senior Member

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    And just to follow up, I resent the shit out of the notion that asking Orly to expound on her A-Bomb to the thread was naive, inappropriate, or wrong in any way. She put it out there. No one on this forum can say that I have ever goaded or attacked her in any way, because it's never happened. I was as sincere as the day is long when I asked her how she could be with someone that long and not have even so much as a hint of their deviant/perverted tendencies.

    Frankly, I think it's crap. Maybe it was the age they were, not sure, but I know there is no way I could spend more than a few dates with a girl and not know her backwards and forwards. Granted, I'm 35, and there's no sacred ground with me. Maybe at 22 I was different, naive, just wouldn't go there. But it doesn't matter, because this isn't about me.

    She did her best to answer the question, and I'm satisfied with her answer, even if I don't really understand it. But how dare you (Tiassa and Bells) come in here with your sanctimonious mod hats on and castigate people for asking the obvious: HOW THE HELL CAN YOU BE WITH SOMEBODY FOR TWO YEARS AND KNOW SO LITTLE ABOUT THEM?

    As Mods, that is not your fucking role. If that's all you are using your mod hat for, turn it in.
     
  12. Bells Staff Member

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    23,043
    You still don't get it, do you?

    You completely ignored her previous posts where she explained why she hadn't had sex with the guy until right before her wedding, and then went on to virtually insult and abuse her, saying that she should have known. How could she have known the guy had violent and disgusting sexual tendencies if she followed her family's rules and not slept with the guy right from the get go? You belittled and insulted her, asking why, when she had repeatedly said why in the first place.

    Personally, I think Orleander treated you with the respect you frankly did not deserve in this thread.

    It really was none of your business. She gave enough information that any person with half a brain would have been able to put together. Does that mean she should have been judged in the manner that she was?

    Even 15ofthe19 recognised that it was none of his business and recognised that she did not have to answer the question. At least he had the manners and decency to know the limits. You, however, do not. He was curious and left it there. And what did you do? You just kept attacking her for something that would have been absolutely awful for her.. as indicated by this post:

    I mean, is it that hard to understand?

    Yes, she gave some personal information about herself. No, that does not mean that you have the right to judge her as you did. Yes, she gave enough information to make the situation clear. And yes, you simply either didn't get it or chose to ignore it. That says more about you than it does about her.

    Fair enough. I guess now she will know that there are members on this site with comprehension issues who need things drawn up in pictures for them, because words are so hard to read and understand.

    It's not. Had the situation been reversed, I would have told her the same thing. But here's the thing. Had the situation been reversed, she would have been able to understand what you were saying and would not have abused you, belittled you and insulted you in judging you. She would not have jumped to the conclusions you jumped to so happily.

    Read back through the posts, keep a dictionary handy if needed, and actually try to understand what was said. Then, you might, just might understand it.

    Again, had the situation been reversed and you were in the firing line on this issue, the result would have been the same. Honestly, is it that hard to understand?

    She was virtually called indecent for waiting, called stupid for sharing her family's values at the time, then when she said why she broke it off, that still wasn't good enough, you went after her like an attack dog, ignoring the fact she had said why she had not had sex with the guy straight away. You don't think she faced enough humiliation with what the guy put her through that you have to further humiliate her? As a woman, I am appalled that you could have reacted as you have in this thread. In short, you should have known better.
     
  13. Bells Staff Member

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    She answered those questions on the first page. In case you missed it the first and second time around:

    You couldn't put the information together?

    I'll make it simple for you.

    She went out with a guy for one year and then was engaged to marry him for a year. Just before the wedding was to take place, she decided to go against what her family had taught her and had sex with him. She had been taught from childhood that she should wait until marriage to have sex and she lived by that until just before the wedding. When she did have sex with him, she discovers the guy was a sexual pervert and demanded she commit acts that were, by her definition, "vile" and perverted. So she broke off the engagement when the second attempt also proved to be disturbing.

    All this was stated before you asked the question.

    Is it that hard to understand? Seriously, is it?

    As for her treatment from others, I would suggest you actually read through the thread and see what she actually had to put up with. She showed a lot more patience and decency that many who participated in this thread deserved.
     
  14. 15ofthe19 35 year old virgin Registered Senior Member

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    Fine Annabelle, you win. Nothing she said in this thread was provocative. It was all as clear as mud. Fuck it, I'm going to bed. This is beyond ridiculous.
     
  15. shorty_37 Go! Canada Go! Registered Senior Member

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    I couldn't have said it better myself. I just couldn't understand how someone would not see any clues after 2 yrs. As you said Bells I should have known better. Thats it you see, I am a woman and I think that I would have noticed something in 2 yrs!! That is why I asked the question!

    Btw: I thought when I typed it I would get in some sort of shit for asking something like that. Then I happened to see that 15ofthe19 asked the exact same thing. I thought ok so it's not just me who wonders.

    Maybe it is you BELLS and Tiassa who have no clue!

    Whatever, I don't give a shit.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2008
  16. Bells Staff Member

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    You mean you missed the posts where she said she was raised in a strict household that forbade sex before marriage? There was more than one.

    How could you have noticed if a man was a sexual deviant if you hadn't had sex with him? As a woman who has been in a similar situation as Orleander when I was in my early 20's, I can assure you, you can't tell until it actually happens. I was lucky in that it happened early on in the relationship and I beat a hasty retreat, only to then be stalked by the man and his mother.

    Is it that hard for you to understand that there are a lot of women who wait until marriage to have sex? And is it that hard for you to show some understanding that this could have probably been her first sexual experience and how traumatising it would have been? Do you really think she should be judged so harshly for it? It's like saying to a woman who was raped that she should have known better. It beggars belief how so many went after her, virtually calling her indecent for first, breaking it off before her wedding and then for having waited for 2 years to have sex with the guy.

    I have a clue Shorty. I guess that is because I actually read what she wrote instead of just ignoring all of it and then jumping to conclusions.
     
  17. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    I thought you were going to bed

    In the first place, if you want to be self-righteous, you need to be a little more accurate with your demands. Not that I'm going to write this whole thing off onto Bells°. To the other, she's not a mod in this forum, and thus wears no such hat. Two strikes.

    However, to get back to the "obvious", I live in a society in which there once was a woman who got married, and lived with her husband for several years before discovering that her husband was not a man.

    Another part of this is what Bells has already pointed out. While it's good that you're satisfied with Orleander's answer, all she did in that answer was state the obvious. Like Bells, I thought the answer to such a question was obvious. I mean, it's not like nobody was making the point.

    And when I think about what I don't know about you ...? Religion? Kinks? I can tell you quite confidently that there are some kinks people have that they just don't talk about until they think the time is right. Maybe if the guy's problem was wanting to plant it in Orleander's ass, and she didn't want it that way, the aggression would have shown through. But there are some things you wait on. And sometimes you get a positive response, and sometimes you don't. But tipping your hand before you've even bedded a lover? No, with some things—and the examples Orleander included definitely would qualify—you just don't say anything about until later.

    (chortle!)

    Yeah. Right. You actually know what you're talking about on this occasion.

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    _____________________

    Notes:

    ° write this whole thing off onto Bells — She is, after all, the one who made the point of your naivete. Perhaps you read that into my response to Shorty, but that issue could easily be resolved if you were so inclined.
     
  18. shorty_37 Go! Canada Go! Registered Senior Member

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    Ummmmmm I think you have said this twice now. You are all over us for asking a fair question.
    Since orleander brought this whole thing up in the first place.
    This is more rude then anything that we have said in this thread! :bugeye:
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2008
  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Say huh?

    What the hell are you going on about?

    Seriously, do you even finish one point before wailing about the next? Okay:

    • Actually, it's once. Prior occasions involved the phrases "plant it in your backside" and "pounded her in the ass". (See #92)

    • All over you for asking a fair question? That is about as puerile a take on this discussion as can be. What I'm all over you about is explained in your Inbox, where, if you've not already found it, I've responded to your complaint from #115. The issue of the question itself has been addressed adequately by Bells in posts #91 and 120. Furthermore, for you especially to pretend the question was "honest" is, well ... it ain't honest. Perhaps without the issues explained in your Inbox, and without consideration of your prior history with Orleander, I would be more sympathetic to your "honesty". But life is what we make it, and in this case you've made it something else.

    • At this point, what Orleander brought up when is a separate issue. Honestly, Shorty, if you were genuine about your inquiries, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

    • Rude? I'm hard-pressed to see the relevance of your opinion of such phrases.​
     
  20. shorty_37 Go! Canada Go! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,140
    Yeah we probably would because you don't get it! You also don't know me that well, if don't see when I am joking around or actually asking a question because something doesn't make sense to me.
    Please Don't reply with a page answer again. We will never see eye to eye on this, just leave it as that.

    After being dragged through the mud by a couple of mods for pages!!! told what we should say or shouldn't ask. Told TO MIND OUR OWN BUSINESS!!! Orleander is bringing it up again and talking about it. (post 140) almost even laughing about the whole thing now.....(pffffff lol)
    Funny don't ya think? Another attempt to fish us in into saying something or asking something we shouldn't. She is going to keep ppl guessing like in her post. Ahhhhhh no it wasn't that, it was something more vile.........hmmmmmmm an attempt to keep it going? keep ppl guessing? Of course!! After the whole mess in this thread why even bring it up again, if it is none of our fucking business!! Why doesn't she end it at that? No more questions being asked about it. That isn't what she wants though. Mike ,15ofthe19, nietzche, and others i wont mention, are right on the money. She likes to dangle stuff around, waiting for responses. She posts something she KNOWS somebody is going to ask more questions about, even after this whole mess!
    I am not biting this time. We are supposed to apoligize? LOL good one!!! I (we) know more of her intimate sex life.......past and present then I want to know!!
    You spread it around an internet forum like she does, be prepared to be judged!! That's LIFE!
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2008
  21. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Mod Hat - Since you insist on whining about moderators

    Mod Hat — Since you insist on whining about moderators

    Shorty, I'm sick of your dishonesty. You have been answered, repeatedly. Despite that, you continue to bawl and flail as if you've never been answered. You have utterly failed to acknowledge the answer I sent you regarding your complaint in #115. Is it that you are putting on a show? Are you trying to pretend that message doesn't exist so you can keep whining and complaining about your old nemesis Orleander and the awful, horrible moderators who took part in a discussion?

    Since honesty appears to be a concept you have no use for, go whine somewhere else. Your childish tantrum has dragged this discussion far enough off topic. Do not continue to do so.

    In other words, no more. You have had your explanation, repeatedly, and instead of addressing those points, you have chosen instead to whine and scream and lie. Take it elsewhere. You have other recourse, and I would encourage you to pursue those options. Because if you haven't the decency to be honest, I don't want to hear it.

    And yes, this is your warning.

    Got it?

    Good.
     
  22. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Mod Hat - Advisory

    Mod Hat — Advisory

    This topic has been split out from "Divorce Because Of".

    This topic will remain in effect until the controversy dies down, and then it will be locked and appropriately redirected.
     
  23. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    If I don't give enough information for people I think they will ask questions. I never think they will assume and jump to conclusions. I have made a career in engineering and the devil is in the details. I don't assume, I don't jump to conclusions. I'm not used to people who do, so I don't plan on it. I don't think "I better say this to that so they don't think this or that"
    So if I don't give enough information, feel free to ask questions, but without being snarky about it. PM me if need be. ok?

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    Last edited: Feb 23, 2008
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