Spinoff Thread:What Happens To The Conscious Awareness When We Die

For that to happened is based on what? how does that happened? who operates it and what? I just think it goes further than knowledge today can take you.I read the split between mind and body and what your saying and t just seems to reaffirm what they have been saying.

 

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Wow,im getting into quantum physics now.

 

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http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/8-9-2004-57639.asp
The Separation of Mind and Consciousness
The Separation of Mind and Consciousness
(An illuminating-connective experience)

During your daily toils the separation between your mind and consciousness is rarely thought about or discussed. But it is the primary cause for the majority of your existence problems. This separation is not even a well-known fact, as mind and consciousness appear to act as one. And paradoxically they do. But the separation is at the core of existence. It is what keeps the materialist isolated from the spiritualist, potentially robbing advancing humanity from a progressive holistic base.

The mind is of physical origin, created out of your brain functions of intellect, memory, imagination and intuition. These brain functions rise and fall upon demand creating what is referred to as mind or mind functions. How effectively these mind functions operate depends upon how genetically functional the brain is, the interconnectivity of its circuitry and its chemical integrity. This is what the materialist sees and works with: the transitory brain functions. When the body is deprived of life, the brain dies. To the pure materialist that is the end of that, establishing a potential agnostic or an atheistic mindset.

Pure materialist scholars, scientists, philosophers etc. conclude that, as the brain is material and contains all our mind functions, when it disappears, the entity that used it equally disappears – not an unreasonable conclusion. This conclusion can be supported by a variety of scientifically provable brain function experiments. One medical proof of this contention is the debilitating affliction known as Alzheimer’s disease or senile dementia, characterized by progressively diminished accessibility to brain functions. As the brain functions diminish, so apparently does the entity that used them resulting in impaired use of intellect and memory plus personality disorganization. By simple observation, it is reasonable to conclude that we are the sum total of our brain function output. And when the body dies so does everything the brain functions produced. This is a pure materialist viewpoint conceived upon observable fact.

Using the same example – Alzheimer’s disease – the brain or mind functions do become partially or totally inaccessible, but consciousness never alters. Consciousness is your ability to see and know both externally (awareness) and internally (self-awareness). It is your internal screen that sees and knows what is seen and known. And an Alzheimer’s patient can always see and know. The patient just does not know what he or she sees or knows, as the mind functions that provided all that information are not accessible.

Consciousness (pure awareness) is who you are and does not have a physical origin. The physical mind functions provide the opportunity for that non-physical entity to learn and survive in the physical world. Mind functions come and go, or rise and fall upon demand. Consciousness remains unchanged no matter what the mind functions produce or do not produce. This is the split between consciousness and your brain or mind functions. And that separation is fundamental in understanding your existence. It points directly at pure consciousness as who you are, and not what the mind functions produce. What your mind functions produce is what consciousness can see and know. You take that production as who you are, as it can be witnessed. It is a deception that controls your life without you being aware of that deceit. This is your shadow-world.

The materialist can work with and deduce logical conclusions from the study of the brain. But they come to a brick wall when dealing with consciousness, as it cannot be found or located anywhere. Consciousness always feels centered but its exact location will perpetually elude discovery. The mind functions have material origins, but consciousness does not. And here is where all the difficulties arise.

The biological form is born with the brain functions ready to begin their learning journey. The canvas they write upon is non-biological consciousness. As the transitory biological form continues its journey of life, the form itself dictates, to some degree, how it will function. The transitory body is what we experience and take as who we are. But is there a knowable point where there is an observable crossover from the temporary physical to spirit permanence? And what is that crossover junction? Or, how does the transitory biology transform non-biological consciousness into a known permanent reality? It is here where consciousness becomes the focal point of interest, as the biology is a temporary acquisition. If anything has permanence it is consciousness, as it never alters.

Consciousness cannot be grasped or held on to, as it is pure spirit awareness and not material or not biologically produced. It is like attempting to grasp and hold on to air with your hand. The air knowingly exists but cannot be held on to. Similarly, consciousness knowingly exists and also cannot be held on to. Air permeates the entire atmosphere. Likewise consciousness permeates the entire human body and will never be located, although its center has a place of focus. Consciousness is ageless, formless, colorless and genderless. It is separate from your mind functions, as it never changes or alters. While your mind functions are in continual states of change.

Mind is the palette containing an endless array of color. Thought, motivation, intent, feelings and emotions paint the color on the canvas of consciousness. But painting consciousness to fit the color of your thoughts does not alter consciousness. It simply becomes the visible picture you have created. Consciousness never interferes or objects to the color your unfettered free will chooses to paint it with. This is another pointer at the separation of mind and consciousness, although each depends upon the other to give it observable existence. Consciousness is your non-biological existent personality. It is who you are. The picture you paint upon it is your character.

Consciousness is the totally open and pure canvas of knowable eternity that is absolutely unrestricted. The canvas being absolutely empty points directly at its absolute purity. To appreciate that last sentence you may have to use your intuition and not your intellect. The developing mind of every individual colors the canvas of consciousness, making it visible. And that color contains the potential to restrict the purity of the consciousness canvas or illuminate it. Consciousness always maintains its absolute unrestricted purity, for it cannot be other than what it is. It is the mind that creates restriction. But that same mind can use restriction to reach and understand the absolute non-restriction of consciousness. The purity of consciousness is impersonally embedded within itself, as the naturally occurring substance of the canvas. It is your mind functions that paint the canvas with colors that illuminate that innate purity or veil it in disharmonious colors that restrict what the canvas is. If you restrict the substance of consciousness you unknowingly have restricted your existence. And that restriction will always come back to bite you, in forms where the causation may not even be recognizable, as being initiated from your own self-created restrictive thought-forms. Whatever you choose, the canvas never interferes by objecting or approving.

Non-interference is one of the primary spirit laws of existence. You have freewill and any interference that restricts or diminishes that freedom is prohibited. For if your freewill is imposed upon, then it is not freewill. This spirit law does cause enormous problems in the physical world. When things go horribly wrong it is natural to feel that if there were a loving creator that destructive events would have been prevented. But that would be interference. Whatever picture you choose to paint upon the canvas of consciousness will not be interfered with, no matter how destructive it may be to yourself or others. As difficult as it is to appreciate, that non-interference is absolute loving kindness.

The picture formed upon the canvas of consciousness is what you see and know as yourself. It is the observable and knowable character of your consciousness-personality. The picture is your painting that attracts some and repels others. It is how you are recognized: a self-created picture that people admire or dismiss. But the picture is only the superficial color upon the reality of the canvas. Even if the picture fades, is disfigured or totally washed away, the canvas still remains. The canvas of consciousness perpetually remains consistent, never altering.

The picture creates form upon formlessness. And it is the picture that can be grasped or held on to. Holding on to the picture is what creates restriction upon the open and pure non-restriction of the canvas. The formless canvas is not what creates problems; it is the picture upon the canvas that does that. Each picture will attract someone or something and repel others, and here the problems begin and multiply. It is always surprising that amongst all the bickering and squabbling as to which picture-form is the best, most pleasing, more advanced, or just as forms should be, it is always forgotten that the canvas is identical for all. The canvas of consciousness is your equality with everyone else. The moment you create a belief that your picture is the correct one, the seeds of potential problems have been sown. The varying forms then fight it out in the playground of manifestation. It is a bewildering and disturbing waste of forms. In all this destructive madness the canvas remains unaffected whatever occurs.

The question is how does the transitory form potentially create or transform into permanence? Or, how does self-created character transform self-existent personality? Consciousness begins its journey in absolute unrestricted purity as a clean spirit canvas. How you use your transitory mind functions to illuminate the canvas of consciousness, in colors that are harmoniously resonate with its substance, is the key to permanence of continued personality survival. It is the expression or exposure of the substance of your consciousness that dictates if the picture you created survives the transition of the physical to a pure spirit environment or not. Consciousness is pure spirit, and it is your mind functions that create spirit value or do not. If the canvas has been left blank, or in discordant colors that have no resonate ability with its substance, then there is nothing there to awaken it in a pure spirit environment and so give it continued existential reality. A blank canvas and discordant colors are simply just that: a blank canvas and discordant colors. When the physical body goes, all that does not resonate with the substance of consciousness equally goes. Only spirit matter or spirit value survives in a spirit environment, as it is all harmoniously resonate. It is that spirit matter or spirit value that reawakens consciousness in a spirit world. You have been given the gift of all the mind-tools to color the canvass of consciousness. If you do nothing with that gift beyond creating discordant colors, that have no resonate ability with the substance of your consciousness, it is the same as rejecting the gift as not wanted. And rejecting this gift is a rejection of existence, which is a choice even without knowing that you have made one. And no one can interfere with that freewill choice. There is no judging entity; you are your own judge and jury, as consciousness is absolute self-referential. This is the natural result of the spirit law of non-interference. You are totally responsible for your existence. If you choose non-existence, that choice will be respected.

When your time upon this planet is at an end, and nothing of spirit value has been painted upon the canvas of consciousness, there is nothing there to awaken it within a pure spirit realm. When the biology goes, all that is materially developed goes with that going. In other words, there are no hell realms. All the created material that does not resonate with the substance of your consciousness simply disintegrates along with the physical body. The hell realms are simply a method of control by fear, as is reincarnation and original sin. They are all fear-based constructs negatively used in an attempt to produce positive results. And that never works, no matter how well it is constructed, as it is fear attempting to produce trust. All forms that establish an anxiety are fear-based constructs that have no place to exist except in the minds of those who wish to control or force the color of their painting upon others. It is not dissimilar to attempting to train animals using fear and not trust. The results are well known, as fear simply does not work. Or it works to create a fearful and very untrustworthy animal that obeys until one day it does not, with potentially disastrous results.

What then is the painting that illuminates the substance of consciousness and what veils it? This can be acquired by reading either of the books, ‘Presence’ or ‘Resolution Psychology". But for this short essay it can best be described as directional subjective knowing. Meaning that it feels right, and that ‘feeling right’ only occurs when your motivational thoughts are in direct resonate accord with the various spirit patterns – augmented substance – impersonally existing within consciousness. You can connect with the substance of consciousness by resonance of your thoughts, motivation or intent; and you subjectively know its correctness in producing an individual direction. These various spirit patterns are there for you to use, and can be used without you even being aware of their existence. But it is those spirit patterns that illuminate your consciousness, and provide a means for it to awaken itself when the transitory really does become transitory. Using your innate spirit patterns is not dissimilar to downloading an extension to a program for your computer. It is still the same program, but now you can do more with it.

The illumination of consciousness goes beyond simply having subjective knowing and doing nothing about it. It is necessary to objectify the subjective knowing, by allowing that illumination to shine of its own accord by becoming a beacon and preventing others from losing themselves within the seduction of their own physicality. It is this form of objective activity where consciousness initiates its own pathway to eternalize itself. And that is the purpose and direction of your existence, which you either do or do not. The choice is always yours. And no one interferes with that choice.

If the agnostics altered their attention from mind function production to the purity of consciousness they would discover what lies beyond the physical, and there discover a first cause. If atheists focused upon the substance of their own consciousness they would discover what they now deny exists. The separation of mind and consciousness is a gift, allowing each to establish directional integrity and alignment of their freewill without coercion of any kind. Experiencing that separation as unity establishes a personal confirmation that no one anywhere can remove. It is the essence of Zen, the bedrock of all mystical experiences – the personal discovery of your creator source. It is an illuminating-connective experience of pure consciousness as who you are, with no mind functions moving. That subjective knowing creates direction. Embedded within that direction the purpose of your existence visually unfolds. It is all self-contained from the very beginning. It simply is a matter of removing your self-created veils to expose it.

Consciousness is formless, but you give it form with your mind functions. Consciousness is ageless, but you create the circumstances to make that agelessness eternally yours. Consciousness is genderless, as you now see the canvas of each and not the picture upon it. Consciousness is colorless, but you expose the canvas as pure color by creating a resonate picture upon it. This emerging picture is then recognizable as the Substance of Absolute Consciousness, which is the substance of your canvas. The canvas of consciousness contains your new emerging Identity, created by your own effort. And that new Identity is who you are, and will always be. It is your exposed personality picture-Identity that is now recognizable in a pure spirit environment. Your purpose and direction has always been impersonally embedded within consciousness, it is simply a matter of making it personal.

Copyright © 2002 PRESENCE – www.presencethebook.com
All rights reserved. Serial rights for articles by request to author

 

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Truth speaks:

Nothing happens when we die. We just continue to live forever. It's not even we who die, it's just the body... We are like electricity and our body is like a lamp that the electricity is in. When the lamp is destroyed, the electricity goes back to the source (heaven, God), but it never dies. Energy can't be destroyed, only transformed.

 

Thats the whole argument that is surrounded around the conscious being seperate from the mind.I have always heard energy cnnot be destroyed just transformed.As for the heaven,God thing,maybe that was a reference in correlation to the religious mindset regarding this matter lol.

 

There is no mind/body split. The body (brain) creates the illusion of an enduring thing called a mind. It does this for the purposes of self-preservation. The mind only exists as long as there is thought. When the activity of thought ceases, so does the mind. Furthermore, the mind is inherited from the activity of other minds. It's the software running on the hardware of the brain.

We can never die because we were never born. You don't exist. What you think is you is a temporary arrangement of atoms that will never occur again. The atoms will go on to form other things. The energy that used to flow through you will go on through other things...

 

I wouldn't say it's just self-preservation. I'd say it's a means to cause change more effectively. If one were to say that we're here to cause changes, rather than to exist.

So my belief (this part is just a belief) is that we're here to cause change. What stays behind of us, is what we've influenced, created, destroyed. The rest of us dies, ceases to be.

As for us being energy - you gain new energy and exhaust the old one. So you're not really energy. Energy is only energy, an existential lubricant. So you're a formation which needs energy. The energy you spend always goes back into the universe. Rather than to Heaven (if energy left this world, it would be gone. Which conflicts with the "energy can't be destroyed" thing.)

 

Were is your proof there is no mind/body split.If there is a split between conscious awareness and body movement dude thats a split of somehow,some evidence,some seperation,if anything is left behind perhaps you should research that.Your argument just coincides with theres.

 

you mean reaction time? It takes time for a signal to go to the muscle, from the brain. So that's caused by the distance between the brain and the object it commands to move. Nothing metaphysical there.

Unless you mean some other split second.

 

you gain a form of new energy on the body if an infection grows on the skin right??

I'm just reading this seperation from mind and body and science has yet to prove there is no separation,i mean the evidence that it does exist is astounding

 

Did you read the above?? The conscious awareness article?? my knowledge on this is small.however i have a cousin into quantum physics that has proof there is a difference,one that science may never understand fully.I have read it on other sites also.Its still greatly poorly understood

 

honestly, no... it's too long

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I read some of it and I didn't take to it. If I'm bored later, I'll read it.

 

I just need someone to discredit this,or come to the forefront proving it does not exist.

 

I have a query: this is the bio & genetics, not the philosophy section?
Why aren't we asking what happens to an E. coli's consciousness when it dies? I think it's in there with asking what happens to ours. When a complex organism like us dies, it happens in stages - which is why there's a rescue window. Once the brain dies and the neurons all disconnect, game's over, there's no reconnecting a brain back together, or not yet there isn't.

 

Okay, so I'll try dissecting this bit.

That's true, as much as that you cannot get a physical hold of an idea. I'd draw a parallel to the "world of ideas" from Ancient Greek beliefs. An idea is a concept.

The "Air knowingly exists" is weird. Air doesn't know it exists. We know it exists. And we can, in fact, capture it.It's pretty easy. An empty bottle is probably full of air, so put a cap on it, and...

erm... yes, air is everywhere where there's air. And it's not everywhere. Air is substance. Again - it's a stupid example by the writer.

Anyway, the feeling of consciousness does, in fact, have a location... the brain. There's probably a specific location in brain which allows one to feel conscious. And it is intervined with the body, so much that we're aware of our body and surroundings (to a level).

Although I'm not sure, what precicely they mean by "consciousness", because they're overmystifying it. It means "Being aware of oneself and surroundings, therefore knowing of one's existence in the world", right?

SAYS WHO??? Who had consciousness before beings were born?

Consciousness DEFINITELY changes. Y'know... "subconscious", "unconscious"... you're not aware of your surroundings, or maybe even not of your body, when you're asleep. You imagine the surroundings, when you sleep. So it's still intervined with the mind functions. Without senses to sense the physical world, you can't be aware of being in the physical world.

Does that even mean anything? What did you read out from it? Anything other than utterly metaphoric descriptions which can mean anything and some strange claims?

Absolute purity... eternity... absolutely unrestricted... nice words. Really. Kinda soud nice but don't explain much about consciousness.

See? Nothing scientific about it, they admit it. And the rest of the text follows the example of the "purity and other deep words" principle.

So I guess the consciousness they describe is the ability to feel oneself. The ego. And being aware of one's self. Once you die, there's nothing physical of yourself to be aware of... And if you want proof - you just try using strong psychedelic substances! You won't feel yourself, you'll feel the dissolving of your ego, or your "consciousness" into everything else.

The text is just written by a person who feels there's an unchangeable "self" at the bottom of it all. Once you shake that a little... not to mention it doesn't explain much, or back stuff up, it just makes claims. So I don't see much that needs to be disproven.

And it sounds like something frauds like to write, too, so whatever you do, don't send him any money or buy stuff.

All in all, though, you can believe what you want... the only thing we can definitely be sure of is that we exist in some form and that we can at least imagine things.

 

HOW DO YOU KNOW?.WERE IS THE SCIENTIFIC PROOF?

 

erm... the same place there's proof that Santa Clause doesn't exist. Like I said, the only thing we can definitely be sure of is that we exist in some form and that we can at least imagine things.

I mean, you can't prove a negative... how do we know that stones aren't actually aliens who rule the world but let us think they don't? I hope you do understand that believing that the air has consciousness is sci-fi, right? but I'll try to rationalize it a little...


Air consists of certain molecules floating around. They don't form anything that could think (hmm... but how can I prove that air doesn't think?). What, in air, would "know" what it is? It doesn't have a stable structure which could form any understandings of anything, it doesn't record the outside world and then read and analyze it it.


Anyway, it got a little strange for me. If anyone else has an understandable argument for/against wind knowing that it exists... please do so.

 

It's not a problem for many of us

 

Im just reading quite alot of opposing arguments that still leads me to think that just isnt it.I could accept that this is just it,and its a process,yet when i read shit about the pineal gland and humans being declared brain dead yet having some awareness thats like a total area of new science needed.

 

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What's creepy about that ??

Btw. I getting really sick of people saying "How can you live like that" or the thing that you said.. :bugeye: