Spanking your child?

Bebelina,

I afraid you still don't understand, which is better letting your child become a failure in life or having to implement tough love (such as spankings)? When all else fails it still a valid and necessary option. By the way how do you teach a child with respect when they have a tantrum in a grocery store?

 

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It is very noticeable that not one poster in this topic has said, "I'm a parent of x children and never spanked them. They grew up well adjusted and knowing right and wrong". Those espousing spanking have all said something to the effect of, "As I child I was spanked, I usually had it coming". It reads like a bunch of students debating the rights and wrongs of parenting based on books only.

I am a father of 3 girls and have, and will, spank them. I just know the 'liberals' will jump on me for that.

So what are the conditions under which I feel physical admonition is required? The conditions vary and depends very much on circumstance. For example, 5 years ago my eldest was 2, the younger was about 6 months old. The elder one saw the baby as nothing more than a doll. One day she had it in mind put her sister in to a toy moses basket. After patiently explaining and repeatedly explaining why this was a Bad Idea(tm) I thought the point got across. Walked away to do something, get dinner or a drink, she promptly but the baby in a basket and preceded to drag her up a flight of stairs. I hope people accept that the babies health and life where potentially in danger at this point. As someone said, you only use physical force if someones life is threatened. Explanations had obviously failed.

Similar, our eldest sleeps badly. As a younger child we put her to bed at 7pm. 5 minutes later she would be downstairs, chatting loudly and demanding constant attention. Put her back to bed, repeat, lather, rinse. This would go on past midnight. We would read to her for hours (often forgoing food until 11pm), put on music, stay in the room until she fell asleep, positive re-inforcement (star charts, treats etc.), negative re-inforcement, the works. This went on for about 2 years. At what point do people who espouse non-physical means think that all reasonable behaviour has failed and will continue to fail? Anyone got any clever ideas to make the child realise the behaviour is unacceptable. Note that she still does not go to bed until past 11pm. This level of sleep deprivation is deemed bad for their health.

Funnily enough, I have hardly had to smack my youngest. A strong word and 'The Look(tm)' puts her in place. I still have to threaten our eldest after spending hours asking her to do trivial tasks. She absolutely refuses to perfrom basic tasks or help people about the house. Typical examples being, go shopping with family, kid immediately starts on the "I want, I want". Child taken outside to stop the incessant whining. Get home and start unpacking, child then incessantly demands attention, food, drink, watch what she is doing.

I yeh, she was diagnosed with ADHD and does not obey normal behaviourial norms. I hope people accept that asking a child to do something, nicely, about a thousand times is being more than understanding.

 

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In a grocery store you let the child lie on the floor and scream until it gets selfaware and realizes it amounts to nothing.

People don't mention having kids of their own to protect the kids from eventual internet predators.

Featus, I do understand. The issue is not the child being difficult, the issue is the parents lack of patience.

 

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The point I was making was also that, where do you stop being patient? 1 day, 1 week, 1 year or maybe ten years. If the person absolutely refuses to learn a lesson, despite attempting every possible method of teaching or behavioural modification, what do you do? Let them keep misbehaving - that way leads to anti-social behaviour.

 

Bebelina,

I don't see letting the child lay on the floor screaming is respecting the child, not that I disagree with that means of dealing with the situation, I just don't see how respect is a means of teaching children.

Are you a synesthesis? Do different colors represent emotional states for you or something?

 

You know what? If I see a kid lying screaming on th efloor while being soundly ignored by it's parents when I'm out shopping, I think 'bad parent'.

I'd rather the parents admonish the child, and threaten a slap, than do nothing.

I'm partly being selfish, I dislike children, and would rather not have to step over them while they throw tantrums. Also, I don't hold with the idea that no response will give the child any insight.

 

You're right, letting the child lie on the floor and scream would naturally be the "when all else fails" option. First one must of course try to talk some sense to the child, explain the situation, why it can't get what it wan't right now.

It worked on my best friend though, we grew up very close. My mother gave in and gave me what I wanted, her mother let her scream as much as she wanted until my friend realized that people were looking at her and she felt embarrased. There are no definite right way to approach this, all I know is that violence is the wrong way, for sure.

I don't think "bad parent" if I see a child screaming because it can't get candy, but I do think "bad parent" if a child cries for being physically or verbally punished, words can hurt as much.

 

How is that the all else fails option? You could take the child to a bathroom and punish it tell it black and blue

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For being a well cooked featus, one would assume that you are familiar with pain, but maybe it's revenge you're after then? If you were cooked then others must suffer too?

 

I don't think your ad hominem is a valid.

 

Well, maybe if you add some humanity the ad hominem makes sense.

 

I'm sorry I still don't understand the nature of your argument (aside from it being a fallacy) are you asking if spanking is for revenge? Spanking the child in the bath room is to teach the child that you did not like what they did in the store and that if they do it again they will receive more negative reinforcement.

 

Yes, you are subconsciously punishing your parents through your child. Treating the child as badly as they treated you, for revenge.
You may think you are doing the right thing, but instead you are only repeating negative patterns that probably your child will repeat itself and the circle of violence never ends until somebody within it steps out.

I don't believe in violence as a method of raising children, and never will, no matter what anybody else has to say about it.

 

Really? I don't think that is the case, perhaps for some it is but not all, not even the majority. Even if it is a circle of violence it does not harm the child in a socially in fact as many of us have stated on this thread it may be the only way to prevent a child from having particular social dysfunctions. Obviously nothing will get you to change you mind I only hope that you have naturally timid and subordinate children that won’t test you on this.

 

i would like to thank you all for reaferming my decision to never have children...

 

Welcome to the club cthulhus slave

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Spanking the child in the bath room is to teach the child that you did not like what they did in the store and that if they do it again they will receive more negative reinforcement.

Not really, the child is unable to fully comprehend this connection. The child is taught that hitting someone is OK and that placing the fear into someone that they will be hit is also OK. Most children will copy what they see and hear.

Violence is not a learning tool. Violence does not teach good behavior.

 

Bebelovely

I don't believe in violence as a method of raising children, and never will, no matter what anybody else has to say about it.

hmmm... seems we have something in common.

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(Q),

Really (Q)? I never hit or spanked other children, spanking taught me to do what the parents say or else they will spank me, later on I gained a more comprehensive understand of good and bad. Though child psychology likes to believe that all children think alike that is totally untrue and each child may respond and think differently of a event.

Negative reinforcement is a proven means of teaching, if shock collars removes the “violence” part that you find so offensive then I would advice it immediately.

You cannot put all confining perimeters on things (such as your statement on violence) since there are exceptions and re-interpretations, thus making your statement a generalization fallacy.

 

spanking taught me to do what the parents say or else they will spank me, later on I gained a more comprehensive understand of good and bad.

How unfortunate, perhaps your parents should have tried to reason with you and guide you instead. You may have gained a comprehensive understanding much earlier in your life. It would appear by your statement that spanking did not accomplish that. All it taught you was that if you didn’t do what others told you to do, you would be spanked. Where is the logic in that?

Though child psychology likes to believe that all children think alike that is totally untrue and each child may respond and think differently of a event.

True, but that doesn’t really matter. Childs minds are more or less blank slates that tend to ‘soak up’ whatever they see or hear. If they see that spankings are a way to get you to do something out of fear, that’s what they’ll remember.

In my opinion, spankings begin a cycle that is very hard to break. Much of a child’s trust in their parents can dissolve away when spankings are used for retribution.

Negative reinforcement is a proven means of teaching, if shock collars removes the “violence” part that you find so offensive then I would advice it immediately.

Now, I know your kidding. Negative reinforcement is simply that; negative. Why not consider positive reinforcement instead, or do you believe this system does not work?

Children must make mistakes – that is how they learn. And they must be positively reinforced in their understanding of those mistakes. If you begin early this type of reinforcement with a child, spankings, or the fear of physical punishment, will most likely not be required.

If a child sees that you are made upset by some action of theirs, they know they can use this later on to get the same reaction, especially if your method of punishment is a spanking. As well, spankings become less of a deterrent over time and the parent is right back where they started. Of course, by this time, reasoning with the child usually does not work.

You cannot put all confining perimeters on things (such as your statement on violence) since there are exceptions and re-interpretations, thus making your statement a generalization fallacy.

Can you give me any examples or exceptions where violence has been successfully used as a learning tool? Of course, if you use examples like ‘shock collars’ that is not considered learning – that would be more akin to forced indoctrination.