Spanking your child?

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by ElectricFetus, Jun 12, 2003.

?

Is Spanking ok?

  1. Always

    14 vote(s)
    18.4%
  2. When all else fails

    30 vote(s)
    39.5%
  3. Never

    27 vote(s)
    35.5%
  4. It depends, will explain below in post...

    5 vote(s)
    6.6%
  1. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    We are not trying to teach love here, love you give to a child unconditionaly, teaching them is something else entirely.
     
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  3. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    <i>FEAR</i> is a very common tool used for the purpose changing the behavior of people. Pretty fricken barbaric, really...more so when you apply it to children.

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  5. Agent Smith Registered Senior Member

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    Spare the rod spoil the child.
     
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  7. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    that’s not true spoiling and spanking at two different things unrelated to each other.
     
  8. SwedishFish Conspirator Registered Senior Member

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    1,908
    aol start page

    on the start page today it says:

    SPARE THE ROD
    There's no reason to spank
    *Nine ways to discipline kids

    so i immediately thought of this thread. if anyone's curious about the nine ways, here they are:

    1. Nurture her self-esteem
    2. Catch your child being good
    3. Set limits and be consistent
    4. Make time for your kids
    5. Be a good role model
    6. Communicate clearly
    7. Be flexible
    8. Show unconditional love
    9. Parent with confidence

    edit: oh there's a link too http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/positive/family/nine_steps.html
     
  9. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    1.Nurture her self-esteem, thus making her into a narcissist. Too little self-esteem leads to depression and suicide, to much leads to egomania, narcissism and murders rampages.
    2.Catch your child being good a must… this is effective on older children that can predict, forsee and plan that bad behavior now means no goody for latter
    3. Set limits and be consistent, a must… but this being effective if your child actually listen to you or if the limit is on something that requires you to do. When your child exceeds a limit what do you do?
    4. Make time for your kids, a must and has no relevance to spanking a child or not.
    5. Be a good role model, a must and has no relevance to spanking a child or not.
    6. Communicate clearly, a must and has no relevance to spanking a child or not.
    7. Be flexible, a must and has no relevance to spanking a child or not.
    8. Show unconditional love, since disciplining a child is still love on your part (since your willing to do it on your part) this is never broken.
    9. Parent with confidence, a must and has no relevance to spanking a child or not
     
  10. jjhlk Guest

    OK, isn't it pretty conclusive that beating your kids turns them into assholes in the future? A light spanking might not be so bad, but there was a study that showed many parents don't realize how much force they are using.

    Negative reinforcement IS required (unless technically it means you positively enforce negative things - but you know what I mean), however. E.g. my young cousin is the sort to throw tantrums to get his way. My aunt does nothing but try to reason with him (very briefly, and besides he's under 6). She always gives in. They've even changed schedules around somewhat to accomodate this little jerk. She enforces positively, so he knows how to do positive things, but he doesn't know not to do negative things. Interestingly, he isn't mean or violent, but only selfish.

    If spanking is indeed a danger for the mental and physical health of a child, I'm sure there are equally if not more effective ways: Isolation, taking away toys, taking away tasty food - don't let them have fun. Since ultimately everyone wants to have fun, I'd bet every child would learn quickly not to do those things.
     
  11. Chagur .Seeker. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,235
    Sounds like 'nature' teaching any other life form ...

    If the child exceeds a limit ... Give it a sharp crack on the butt.
    If the child continues to do it ... Kill it. Crude, but effective.

    :m:

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    :m:
     
  12. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Chagur,

    agreed

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  13. ripleofdeath Registered Senior Member

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    Bebelina
    SwedishFish

    try and remember once you get to a certain level of intellegence that most things just seem soo obviouse
    you are trying to explain quantim physics to prosimians using binary

    my suggestion is that all people who believe in smaking kids should be made to wear a badge that says


    PUNCH ME IN THE FACE IF IM RUDE TO YOU
    I BELIEVE VIOLENCE SOLVES MY ISSUES


    UNFORTUNATELY
    people that believe in smacking their kids are just too retarded to realise the bigger picture

    the real issue is that all the parents that do smack their children actualy are bad parents and need counselling
    i believe most parents need counselling prior to having children
    the examples set by those who are disfunctional and blame it on not smacking are actualy just disfunctional parents

    smacking children teaches them to be hypocrites
    and shows them how to use violence against weaker people and animals and undermines the ability of the parent to be loved by the child and removes the parent from the primary teacher role model and so the child looks to other examples of role models that are more violent than the parent
    and so you have a few people who have posted on this thread
    sad
    i hope they heal soon
    unfortunately it is like ahlcaholism
    you need to admit you have a problem before you can start to work on it
    and most people lie to themselfs soo much they feel their entire world would collapse if they started being truthful
    this mental illness of smacking children needs to be fixed before
    equality of the sexs can be achived
    and then sexual disfunctional issues will be able to be considered for repair

    i find it soo sad yet choose to laugh because it just seems soo obviouse
    but you get that with some things
    isnt that rite you geniuses

    talk about watching paint dry
    its more like waiting for it to dry and then peal off

    peace light truth love
    groove on all

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    Last edited: Jul 22, 2003
  14. jjhlk Guest

    Negative feedback does work.

    The issue is if spanking mentally screws up your kids for the future. And if so, at what degrees? If it's true that parents don't know how much force they're using, then that could mean there's still hope for spanking since all the pyscotic adults who were spanked could have been spanked unecessarily hard.

    It also seems that, regardless, spanking is unnecessary.
     
  15. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,523
    Oh sure spanking is unnecessary. Please provide a means to disciplining a child that does not need spanking? One that I have not given an example of failure by the way.
     
  16. ripleofdeath Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,762
    WellCookedFetus

    failure to recognise the child as an indevidual
    is the failure to be an indevidual

    those who can not be an indevidual can not teach children to be anything more than sheep for the slaughter of the consumerism victim world

    the majority of people who hit thier children for lack of any other
    method of parenting are just lazzy and selfish and weak mindid
    and do not serve as a good example role model for thier children

    those who remain from the what is left of the group that hit thier children are the seriousely mentaly ill ones who actualy enjoy it
    and that group is allot bigger than most would assume

    WellCookedFetus
    i could teach you how to parent your children without using violence
    HOWEVER
    such knolledge is a powerful tool and is not for the profit of those who do not believe in it
    most of the posative parenting books are wrong
    yes i agree with you on that one
    but so are the many ways to make explosives
    yet people still blow themselfs up trying to make them for no intellegent reason
    BUT when you choose to play with psychological explosives you risk and often hurt the ones around you and with children
    YOU DONT GET A SECOND CHANCE TO BE A PARENT
    and so once you sit back in your comfortable prozac and ahlcahol
    stuper infront of the tv
    you can say
    well i wasnt that bad
    HOW THE FUCK WOULD YOU KNOW
    you wouldnt and thats part of the problem

    WellCookedFetus
    i am aware your views are held by many people and i am addressing it to people in genral
    im not inferring your a drug addict
    however if you have any spare please send me some

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  17. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    18,523
    When did I say not the recognize the child as a individual in, fact if you read my post on this thread I quite clearly say the opposite.

    I could not agree more, I recommended other means of punishment first but believe spanking is still a valid last resort option.
     
  18. ripleofdeath Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,762
    last resort option

    you are inccorect
    the last resort option is killing the child
    and that happens

    so once violence has been innitiated as a last resort the violence must increase if the actions are not stopped

    if a child picks up a stick and hits you with it
    how much self control
    do most people have to not lash back at the child
    not much

    every example is observed by the child

    most people believe revenge is a good thing and validate it in some form of situation to jusify thier feeling of wanting to hurt others because they feel hurt and cant deal with it

    the cycle of violence
    mental and physical
    I UNDERSTAND most humans are not yet intellegent enough to
    be able to not deal with these things without violence

    it just saddens me deeply to see the potential that is soo often flushed down the drain by parents even before the childs first day at school

    violence begets violence
    excuse begets excuse
    christians think violence toward children is as valid excuse to maintain smacking
    im not sure what jewish religion teaches on that or muslim
    but for all thier hipocriticalism the blazzing sword hangs close over thier head
    and so often they order the release by thier own action
    USA
    is a majority christian and jewish country from what i have heard
    so about half the population would be christian
    and so half the population think violence toward children is acceptable
    GIVEN A GOOD EXCUSE
    i gues your per capita crime statistics are a good indicator
    soo
    considering that
    how productive is your child raising techniques
    is the population getting more intellegent and less violent
    i dont think so
    there is your evidence
    you dont have to go researching in hundred year old books about whether jesus believed in gay marriage or not

    oh how thyne own pasture and seedlings are trampled in the furverouse self justification to gaze upon thyne neighbours
    sexual exploits

    i thought to covet thy neighbours sex was a sin
    and to covet you childs youth
    covet negative covet posative
    covet covet covet

    my word for such behaviour = hypacrites
    but all in the best possible taste

    groove on all

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    Last edited: Jul 23, 2003
  19. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    well I guess so, but most parents aren't going to do this due to selfish genetic impulse and federal laws.

    Exactly the point, the child learns quickly the causing pain to others will unleash pain on to s/he self. “What will others do if I do this” becomes a new thought process and critical for the childs future though out life. The child should not be shield from the world even if the parents don’t hit back you think other people and child won’t?

    If your assuming I don’t, then you have not heard my "Talking Monkey" speech I rant on about all the time.
     
  20. jjhlk Guest

    I'm thinking spanking only works on children until a certain age. Once they mature enough and they are more intelligent, then you can reason with them. Maybe there is no way to reason with a very young child though.

    I want to see some proof for how controlled spanking of a small child really harms them at a later age (assuming you raised them "properly" otherwise). I was spanked maybe a total of three times when I was under 6 (can't remember the age). I learnt very quickly what things were unacceptable. And I turned out fine (if you consider a grade A student with no violent tendencies and no depression and no abusive - in fact none - drugs/alcohol use and healthy relationships with people and healthy attitudes toward society to be fine). Later on logic is good enough (I liked my videogames).

    Killing them?! You guys are insane. At a last resort it's perfectly good labour: chain it in the basement and get it to make some sweaters.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2003
  21. ripleofdeath Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,762
    WellCookedFetus

    i may be wrong but it sounds like you are making an "either-or" situation about how to teach children
    either you hit the child or they will be a psychopath

    you make a point about the world teaching a person/child that if they hit another person in the street they will be hit back
    HOW WRONG CAN YOU BE?
    the person reports to the police and the police file a complaint
    and blah blah blah
    that is the reality
    so suggesting that people will hit back is not truthful
    the child in the adults body will choose those who are most unlikely to hit back
    that is closer to the reality of the situation

    if i cut you off in a car and you used a swear word toward me and then i got out of the car and said i did not see you so it was not intentional but because you used a swear word i am going to punch you in the head
    what a load of crap to suggest you would be happy with such a development
    that makes you a hypocrite if you believe in that
    did you use the word logic there somewhere
    aply a working model of what is logical and the reality will transpire to be your own disfunctional child looking back at you from a nice comfy police cell while the debate begins of
    who said they said they did i didnt
    and welcome to the real world
    your analagy of violence in the form of hitting people does not ring true in the gang and violent offending examples that fill the worlds courts
    your logic is illogical
    by your logic they all would be killed by now but they are not and they continue to choose their victims

    some more thought is required
    good luck

    jjhlk
    last resort is the word that i was noting
    the last resort to life is death
    so saying the last resort of a child that you deem unworthy of protection from violence is killing it

    i am surprised you remember being hit at such an early age
    do you think that a adult is incapable of restraining a child under the age of
    what did you say
    6 years old
    the child will only do something wrong because the parent is not parenting the child
    it is called being a bad parent that does not manage their own child
    then makes excuses for it by saying lies and then hits the child to get back at it
    i call that mental illnes

    jjhlk
    quote
    At a last resort it's perfectly good labour: chain it in the basement and get it to make some sweaters.
    ---
    i understand you may be making a joke here
    however
    there are adults with children making your sweaters in asia being paid just enough money so they can afford to work
    they are called sweat shops
    and children are used in them for slave labour to make your cheap products
    so the joke is not entirely irrelavant

    quote
    I want to see some proof for how controlled spanking of a small child really harms them at a later age (assuming you raised them "properly" otherwise).
    ---
    you are making an excuse for hitting not a valid evidence related intellegent choice
    and then ask to have someone prove the contrary
    that is not logical
    so err for you have no logic
    so maybe that is one way the spanking has corrupted your mind
    good luck

    groove on all

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  22. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    I will say up front that I did not read the whole thread.

    This reply is just to give you one example of child "spanking" in the worst way in my opinion.

    When my son was going to school, at the age of 4 years old, there was this boy who had the habit to bite the children who were in that same class. The children got so used to this that at some point they did not even tell the teacher about it anymore, cause it was how he was.

    The parents of those children who had really deep bite marks very often (which were mostly all children present) started complaining about it.

    So the teacher went to see the parents of the boy.

    It turned out to be so that the father of the boy whipped him. The boy, just 4 years old, had the marks of the whip on his back.

    Because of this way being "spanked" by his father for as long as he could rememebr in his short 4 years of being alive, the boy did not know better or others who you disagree with, should be "punished".

    Thus it resulted in biting the kids he felt he had a problem with.

    Very nice way of teaching your children well, don't you think?

    At the age of 4, this kid was doomed to become a violent adult, because of the methods of his parents.

    It finally resulted in the removing him from the school, unfortunately.

    I can only hope that life got better for him over the years.

    I feel deep disgust for parents who "teach" their children like this.

    Alright, end of the rant.
     
  23. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    18,523
    Banshee,

    I never said anything about whipping a child being correct, I was spank I never attack anyone (aside from my brother we don't get along don't ask) the parent must explain to the child what s/he is doing wrong and must make it clear the punishment comes from disobeying the parent and only the parent.

    ripleofdeath,

    Negative repercussions come from hitting others you know quite well that’s what I meant don't go off into a Straw Man based off a vague example I gave.

    I don't understand were your going with this I did not say anything like this. I explain to expect others to attack back, not to attack or enter into conflict is the first lesson to prevent the latter.

    Then your greatly misunderstand my logic in fact I have no clue how yours works, mind explaining this?
     

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