We are not trying to teach love here, love you give to a child unconditionaly, teaching them is something else entirely.
<i>FEAR</i> is a very common tool used for the purpose changing the behavior of people. Pretty fricken barbaric, really...more so when you apply it to children. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
aol start page on the start page today it says: SPARE THE ROD There's no reason to spank *Nine ways to discipline kids so i immediately thought of this thread. if anyone's curious about the nine ways, here they are: 1. Nurture her self-esteem 2. Catch your child being good 3. Set limits and be consistent 4. Make time for your kids 5. Be a good role model 6. Communicate clearly 7. Be flexible 8. Show unconditional love 9. Parent with confidence edit: oh there's a link too http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/positive/family/nine_steps.html
1.Nurture her self-esteem, thus making her into a narcissist. Too little self-esteem leads to depression and suicide, to much leads to egomania, narcissism and murders rampages. 2.Catch your child being good a must… this is effective on older children that can predict, forsee and plan that bad behavior now means no goody for latter 3. Set limits and be consistent, a must… but this being effective if your child actually listen to you or if the limit is on something that requires you to do. When your child exceeds a limit what do you do? 4. Make time for your kids, a must and has no relevance to spanking a child or not. 5. Be a good role model, a must and has no relevance to spanking a child or not. 6. Communicate clearly, a must and has no relevance to spanking a child or not. 7. Be flexible, a must and has no relevance to spanking a child or not. 8. Show unconditional love, since disciplining a child is still love on your part (since your willing to do it on your part) this is never broken. 9. Parent with confidence, a must and has no relevance to spanking a child or not
OK, isn't it pretty conclusive that beating your kids turns them into assholes in the future? A light spanking might not be so bad, but there was a study that showed many parents don't realize how much force they are using. Negative reinforcement IS required (unless technically it means you positively enforce negative things - but you know what I mean), however. E.g. my young cousin is the sort to throw tantrums to get his way. My aunt does nothing but try to reason with him (very briefly, and besides he's under 6). She always gives in. They've even changed schedules around somewhat to accomodate this little jerk. She enforces positively, so he knows how to do positive things, but he doesn't know not to do negative things. Interestingly, he isn't mean or violent, but only selfish. If spanking is indeed a danger for the mental and physical health of a child, I'm sure there are equally if not more effective ways: Isolation, taking away toys, taking away tasty food - don't let them have fun. Since ultimately everyone wants to have fun, I'd bet every child would learn quickly not to do those things.
Sounds like 'nature' teaching any other life form ... If the child exceeds a limit ... Give it a sharp crack on the butt. If the child continues to do it ... Kill it. Crude, but effective. :m: Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! :m:
Bebelina SwedishFish try and remember once you get to a certain level of intellegence that most things just seem soo obviouse you are trying to explain quantim physics to prosimians using binary my suggestion is that all people who believe in smaking kids should be made to wear a badge that says PUNCH ME IN THE FACE IF IM RUDE TO YOU I BELIEVE VIOLENCE SOLVES MY ISSUES UNFORTUNATELY people that believe in smacking their kids are just too retarded to realise the bigger picture the real issue is that all the parents that do smack their children actualy are bad parents and need counselling i believe most parents need counselling prior to having children the examples set by those who are disfunctional and blame it on not smacking are actualy just disfunctional parents smacking children teaches them to be hypocrites and shows them how to use violence against weaker people and animals and undermines the ability of the parent to be loved by the child and removes the parent from the primary teacher role model and so the child looks to other examples of role models that are more violent than the parent and so you have a few people who have posted on this thread sad i hope they heal soon unfortunately it is like ahlcaholism you need to admit you have a problem before you can start to work on it and most people lie to themselfs soo much they feel their entire world would collapse if they started being truthful this mental illness of smacking children needs to be fixed before equality of the sexs can be achived and then sexual disfunctional issues will be able to be considered for repair i find it soo sad yet choose to laugh because it just seems soo obviouse but you get that with some things isnt that rite you geniuses talk about watching paint dry its more like waiting for it to dry and then peal off peace light truth love groove on all Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Negative feedback does work. The issue is if spanking mentally screws up your kids for the future. And if so, at what degrees? If it's true that parents don't know how much force they're using, then that could mean there's still hope for spanking since all the pyscotic adults who were spanked could have been spanked unecessarily hard. It also seems that, regardless, spanking is unnecessary.
Oh sure spanking is unnecessary. Please provide a means to disciplining a child that does not need spanking? One that I have not given an example of failure by the way.
WellCookedFetus failure to recognise the child as an indevidual is the failure to be an indevidual those who can not be an indevidual can not teach children to be anything more than sheep for the slaughter of the consumerism victim world the majority of people who hit thier children for lack of any other method of parenting are just lazzy and selfish and weak mindid and do not serve as a good example role model for thier children those who remain from the what is left of the group that hit thier children are the seriousely mentaly ill ones who actualy enjoy it and that group is allot bigger than most would assume WellCookedFetus i could teach you how to parent your children without using violence HOWEVER such knolledge is a powerful tool and is not for the profit of those who do not believe in it most of the posative parenting books are wrong yes i agree with you on that one but so are the many ways to make explosives yet people still blow themselfs up trying to make them for no intellegent reason BUT when you choose to play with psychological explosives you risk and often hurt the ones around you and with children YOU DONT GET A SECOND CHANCE TO BE A PARENT and so once you sit back in your comfortable prozac and ahlcahol stuper infront of the tv you can say well i wasnt that bad HOW THE FUCK WOULD YOU KNOW you wouldnt and thats part of the problem WellCookedFetus i am aware your views are held by many people and i am addressing it to people in genral im not inferring your a drug addict however if you have any spare please send me some Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
When did I say not the recognize the child as a individual in, fact if you read my post on this thread I quite clearly say the opposite. I could not agree more, I recommended other means of punishment first but believe spanking is still a valid last resort option.
last resort option you are inccorect the last resort option is killing the child and that happens so once violence has been innitiated as a last resort the violence must increase if the actions are not stopped if a child picks up a stick and hits you with it how much self control do most people have to not lash back at the child not much every example is observed by the child most people believe revenge is a good thing and validate it in some form of situation to jusify thier feeling of wanting to hurt others because they feel hurt and cant deal with it the cycle of violence mental and physical I UNDERSTAND most humans are not yet intellegent enough to be able to not deal with these things without violence it just saddens me deeply to see the potential that is soo often flushed down the drain by parents even before the childs first day at school violence begets violence excuse begets excuse christians think violence toward children is as valid excuse to maintain smacking im not sure what jewish religion teaches on that or muslim but for all thier hipocriticalism the blazzing sword hangs close over thier head and so often they order the release by thier own action USA is a majority christian and jewish country from what i have heard so about half the population would be christian and so half the population think violence toward children is acceptable GIVEN A GOOD EXCUSE i gues your per capita crime statistics are a good indicator soo considering that how productive is your child raising techniques is the population getting more intellegent and less violent i dont think so there is your evidence you dont have to go researching in hundred year old books about whether jesus believed in gay marriage or not oh how thyne own pasture and seedlings are trampled in the furverouse self justification to gaze upon thyne neighbours sexual exploits i thought to covet thy neighbours sex was a sin and to covet you childs youth covet negative covet posative covet covet covet my word for such behaviour = hypacrites but all in the best possible taste groove on all Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
well I guess so, but most parents aren't going to do this due to selfish genetic impulse and federal laws. Exactly the point, the child learns quickly the causing pain to others will unleash pain on to s/he self. “What will others do if I do this” becomes a new thought process and critical for the childs future though out life. The child should not be shield from the world even if the parents don’t hit back you think other people and child won’t? If your assuming I don’t, then you have not heard my "Talking Monkey" speech I rant on about all the time.
I'm thinking spanking only works on children until a certain age. Once they mature enough and they are more intelligent, then you can reason with them. Maybe there is no way to reason with a very young child though. I want to see some proof for how controlled spanking of a small child really harms them at a later age (assuming you raised them "properly" otherwise). I was spanked maybe a total of three times when I was under 6 (can't remember the age). I learnt very quickly what things were unacceptable. And I turned out fine (if you consider a grade A student with no violent tendencies and no depression and no abusive - in fact none - drugs/alcohol use and healthy relationships with people and healthy attitudes toward society to be fine). Later on logic is good enough (I liked my videogames). Killing them?! You guys are insane. At a last resort it's perfectly good labour: chain it in the basement and get it to make some sweaters.
WellCookedFetus i may be wrong but it sounds like you are making an "either-or" situation about how to teach children either you hit the child or they will be a psychopath you make a point about the world teaching a person/child that if they hit another person in the street they will be hit back HOW WRONG CAN YOU BE? the person reports to the police and the police file a complaint and blah blah blah that is the reality so suggesting that people will hit back is not truthful the child in the adults body will choose those who are most unlikely to hit back that is closer to the reality of the situation if i cut you off in a car and you used a swear word toward me and then i got out of the car and said i did not see you so it was not intentional but because you used a swear word i am going to punch you in the head what a load of crap to suggest you would be happy with such a development that makes you a hypocrite if you believe in that did you use the word logic there somewhere aply a working model of what is logical and the reality will transpire to be your own disfunctional child looking back at you from a nice comfy police cell while the debate begins of who said they said they did i didnt and welcome to the real world your analagy of violence in the form of hitting people does not ring true in the gang and violent offending examples that fill the worlds courts your logic is illogical by your logic they all would be killed by now but they are not and they continue to choose their victims some more thought is required good luck jjhlk last resort is the word that i was noting the last resort to life is death so saying the last resort of a child that you deem unworthy of protection from violence is killing it i am surprised you remember being hit at such an early age do you think that a adult is incapable of restraining a child under the age of what did you say 6 years old the child will only do something wrong because the parent is not parenting the child it is called being a bad parent that does not manage their own child then makes excuses for it by saying lies and then hits the child to get back at it i call that mental illnes jjhlk quote At a last resort it's perfectly good labour: chain it in the basement and get it to make some sweaters. --- i understand you may be making a joke here however there are adults with children making your sweaters in asia being paid just enough money so they can afford to work they are called sweat shops and children are used in them for slave labour to make your cheap products so the joke is not entirely irrelavant quote I want to see some proof for how controlled spanking of a small child really harms them at a later age (assuming you raised them "properly" otherwise). --- you are making an excuse for hitting not a valid evidence related intellegent choice and then ask to have someone prove the contrary that is not logical so err for you have no logic so maybe that is one way the spanking has corrupted your mind good luck groove on all Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I will say up front that I did not read the whole thread. This reply is just to give you one example of child "spanking" in the worst way in my opinion. When my son was going to school, at the age of 4 years old, there was this boy who had the habit to bite the children who were in that same class. The children got so used to this that at some point they did not even tell the teacher about it anymore, cause it was how he was. The parents of those children who had really deep bite marks very often (which were mostly all children present) started complaining about it. So the teacher went to see the parents of the boy. It turned out to be so that the father of the boy whipped him. The boy, just 4 years old, had the marks of the whip on his back. Because of this way being "spanked" by his father for as long as he could rememebr in his short 4 years of being alive, the boy did not know better or others who you disagree with, should be "punished". Thus it resulted in biting the kids he felt he had a problem with. Very nice way of teaching your children well, don't you think? At the age of 4, this kid was doomed to become a violent adult, because of the methods of his parents. It finally resulted in the removing him from the school, unfortunately. I can only hope that life got better for him over the years. I feel deep disgust for parents who "teach" their children like this. Alright, end of the rant.
Banshee, I never said anything about whipping a child being correct, I was spank I never attack anyone (aside from my brother we don't get along don't ask) the parent must explain to the child what s/he is doing wrong and must make it clear the punishment comes from disobeying the parent and only the parent. ripleofdeath, Negative repercussions come from hitting others you know quite well that’s what I meant don't go off into a Straw Man based off a vague example I gave. I don't understand were your going with this I did not say anything like this. I explain to expect others to attack back, not to attack or enter into conflict is the first lesson to prevent the latter. Then your greatly misunderstand my logic in fact I have no clue how yours works, mind explaining this?