Spanking your child?

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by ElectricFetus, Jun 12, 2003.

?

Is Spanking ok?

  1. Always

    14 vote(s)
    18.4%
  2. When all else fails

    30 vote(s)
    39.5%
  3. Never

    27 vote(s)
    35.5%
  4. It depends, will explain below in post...

    5 vote(s)
    6.6%
  1. Inquisitor Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    48
    No. I just can't tell sci-fi language from bad English. Learn how to write before posting. It helps.

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    *based "off" what I read*
     
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  3. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,574
    Hey good point, I see what you're sayin man, spot on, you rock.

    What? Someone had to say it...
     
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  5. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Ok then Dr Lou Natic yes it was a very good speach, but jess man you did not need to go kissing your self, we could do that for you.

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  7. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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  8. Lorcalon Registered Member

    Messages:
    17
    when Ryan punched his baby sister my step mother lost control and hit Ryan very violently.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have to ask. Has Ryan punched his baby sister again since your step-mother "physically punished" him?
     
  9. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,125
    The natural reaction of parents is to spank.

    That might be the case if the parents themselves were spanked as children, but it is certainly not the natural reaction a parent would have.

    But when a kid is playing with a snake, or lying on train tracks I think taking the child away from the danger and then putting him in the danger of a wooping is beneficial.

    Nonsense. You are assuming that children should know and understand the consequences of their actions. The most common mistake parent’s make is assuming their children should act like adults.

    So I think spanking is right in some cases, I think everything we naturally have the urge to do must have spawned from a behaviour that was "right",

    If one has the ‘urge’ to hit children for whatever reason, they should seriously consider seeking professional help themselves.
     
  10. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    18,212
    Lorcalon,

    I would not know I have not visited since last year.

    (Q),

    I have to agree there the its not a natural instinct to spank, the natural instinct is simply to lash out violently at what ever angers you. Spanking could be seen as a interpretation of that instinct but it under for better cognitive control.

    Why?

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    Not at all, all the child needs to know is that if the child does this s/he will get spanked, this is very effective with young children who do not have the focus or cognitive ability to understand the true meanings to why something is wrong. Assuming the child should act like and adult is when instead of spanking them you explain to them in detail why something is wrong.
     
  11. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,125
    the natural instinct is simply to lash out violently at what ever angers you.

    This makes less sense than spanking. If your nature is to lash out violently, perhaps you need to seek help.

    this is very effective with young children who do not have the focus or cognitive ability to understand the true meanings to why something is wrong.

    Yes, they understand that something is wrong - someone is hitting them.

    Assuming the child should act like and adult is when instead of spanking them you explain to them in detail why something is wrong.

    How do children learn anything if you don’t explain?

    Talking to a child is a good thing and they tend to prefer it to a beating.
     
  12. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    18,212
    (Q),

    I'm not saying mine I'm saying all people in general. So you have never gotten angry at something? I'm sorry to tell you this but if you never had such a impulse then your the mentally abnormal one not I.

    Ya and they don't do what ever they did again out of fear of being hit, the child won't play with snakes or lay on train tracks, would you just leave the child to die, because you can't spank them when they refuse to listen by any other mean?

    Of course I advocate talking to the child, but what happens when the child does not listen? I have seen what happens and it not pretty. If you tell a child not to do something and s/he does not listen what do you do? You could try time outs or groundings, but what if that fails to? You can try to separate the child from the problem but you can't keep a child from all things s/he could do wrong and you can't separate s/he forever. If the child does something very dangerous and does not listen to your warnings how do you convey to them the seriousness of the problem and the seriousness of disobeying?
     
  13. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,125
    So you have never gotten angry at something?

    Of course, but my reaction has never been to lash out violently.

    I'm sorry to tell you this but if you never had such a impulse then your the mentally abnormal one not I.

    The civil world would beg to differ.

    Ya and they don't do what ever they did again out of fear of being hit

    That is a stretch of the imagination. How is the child supposed to know that being hit is connected with anything other then being hit? It is the beatings they fear, and the person doing the beatings.

    would you just leave the child to die, because you can't spank them when they refuse to listen by any other mean?

    The world is not so black and white as you propose to paint it.

    Of course I advocate talking to the child, but what happens when the child does not listen?

    This is where your level of understanding of children disintegrates. For some reason, you can’t seem to fathom that children actually do listen, and that it depends on how they are treated.

    If the child does something very dangerous and does not listen to your warnings how do you convey to them the seriousness of the problem and the seriousness of disobeying?

    Again, you don’t seem to understand that treating the child with respect and talking to them throughout their entire development will not warrant this kind of scenario to exist. You are under the impression that all children act the same way because your worldview of raising children is one of beatings and abuse. And of course, I can understand why you are unable to see past this worldview simply because the world I describe never existed for you.
     
  14. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,212
    That says nothing about you having or not having the urge to do so. Through proper teaching and learn of social ideals we try not the lash out at things in anger, that does not mean we don’t have the impulse to do so, if you do not have that impulse then there something very unusually with you.

    That’s like asking how lab rats came to fear a red light because when ever the red light was turned on they would get an electroshock. How did the rats figure out the connection between the light and the electroshock? Bets me, probably neural connection and the biological process of “learning”. A child works the same way: if you spank the child every time they do something the child will learn not to do it, of course actually telling the child what s/he did wrong and how to avoid another spanking does increase the speed of making that connection.

    How so? Elaberate

    No this is where my level of understanding children meets personal experience: Some children do not listen, period! You can say otherwise but I have seen it, its a plain fact that Ryan for example does not listen to his parents, I have seen other children that again do not listen to there parents there for some child do not listen to there parents. I observer, theorize and prove, there is no getting around it, it’s a fact.

    First of all I have not seen "treating the child with respect and talking to them throughout their entire development" ever working, that not the say it hasn't but I have also at least seen this strategy fail in the short term, and in a comparison to child that were spanked the non-spanked children seemed to immature, unempathetic and narcissistic.

    Second off you obviously have not read through this thread (ok so its long I’ll forgive you for not reading through it) I have repeatedly stated that all children are individuals with different personalities and psyches and that spanking is not need for all children, some child can be raise by reasoning alone. The problem is your statement that is in fact says that reasoning with a child works universally, this is the generalization fallacy.

    Third, Again you did not read the thread you would have also seen that I do in fact have personal experience and observations in non-spanking based parenting (look up “Ryan” and “Thias” as detailed examples I placed).
     
  15. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,125
    if you do not have that impulse then there something very unusually with you.

    OK – If this is not merely your opinion, I’m willing to hear your argument as to why it is considered unusual to not have impulses of violent behavior.

    Is everyone prone to exhibit violent behavior?

    That’s like asking how lab rats came to fear a red light because when ever the red light was turned on they would get an electroshock. How did the rats figure out the connection between the light and the electroshock?

    Strawman.

    of course actually telling the child what s/he did wrong and how to avoid another spanking does increase the speed of making that connection.

    I’m glad you agree with me – talking does work.

    Some children do not listen, period! You can say otherwise but I have seen it, its a plain fact that Ryan for example does not listen to his parents

    I think it has already been established that Ryan has issues and cannot be considered a child rose outside of a difficult childhood.

    I have seen other children that again do not listen to there parents there for some child do not listen to there parents. I observer, theorize and prove, there is no getting around it, it’s a fact.

    Then there appears to be no reason for further debate, according to you.

    I’ll start beating children immediately, thanks.

    First of all I have not seen "treating the child with respect and talking to them throughout their entire development" ever working

    Exactly. That’s why you can’t understand.

    in a comparison to child that were spanked the non-spanked children seemed to immature, unempathetic and narcissistic

    And you accuse me of generalizing statements?

    I’m going out on a limb with an assumption – is it possible that a child who is continually spanked might lose their childhood altogether? Perhaps you are confusing immaturity and narcissi with the nature of being a happy child.

    Second off you obviously have not read through this thread (ok so its long I’ll forgive you for not reading through it)… Third, Again you did not read the thread

    If you were ever wrong of anything, you can add that.
     
  16. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,212
    Everyone when angry has the impulse the scream, bash things, jump up and down what ever, basically revert to a animal like state, of course any reasonable adult can control this, you saying you don't have such a impulse?


    That was a accurate example to me of what you were saying, perhaps I misinterpreted, then you would rephrase your original statement in greater detail?

    Well then we are half way to a conclusion, now if only I could get you to understand that spanking is valid.

    Could you explain to me how he got these "issues" I mean his mother followed the books and went to the psychologist and everything.

    Now we are all the way there, so we can stop debating now, all a little bit of advice, spanking is not betting a child, i would not advice you to hit your child out right, also advice you the spnak only after all else fails.

    Well if you would provide for me proven examples.

    I compared two groups of children, based of my observation I came to the conclusion that some children would have been better off spanked, I don't see in any way how that’s a generalization or a attempt to generalize that all children should be spanked.
     
  17. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,212
  18. ItalianItellectual Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    46
    Spanking is a good for correction. Studies have shown though, that after the first hit every hit after that is uncontrollable anger.
     
  19. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,212
    I'm here back in CA visiting my father for Xmas. Ryan now almost two years older then when I last saw him, he is now 6 years old, little has changed in his behavior. He screams constantly, he most have is way, he is given time outs and placed in his room constantly to little avail, if you tell him not to do something he immediately does it as he does not fear any consequences, he does not respect his parents and mocks them, did I mention he swears? Ryan's little sister is 2 and she of better temperament then Ryan! I'll keep your up dated over the years on Ryans progress.

    So far this is clear proof to me that some children need to be spanked as other forms of discipline are a total failure on them.
     

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