Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by Orleander, Sep 25, 2009.
No he isn't in special education. Normal Catholic high school with normal students.
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This is true. A kid did his A level exam he finished the paper and handed it in.
The assessor opened the test paper and began reading, flicked over, and then flicked over and then wrote a big fat FAIL, or actually I think it was Z, lowest of the low.
I am sure that the student was quite intelligent and probably would have done well but, he failed to communicate his intelligence to the assessor, why?
He wrote in in text speak (SMS).
Failure to communicate intelligence is just as bad as not having any!
If I may ask a discreet question:
Did they have any findings on the impact of spanking on the IQ of adults?
Gotta love it when people bring up personal stories to support scientific arguments.
They did indeed measure the children's intelligence at the start of the study (when they were age 2-9) and four years later (when they were 6-13). All of the children showed an increase in cognitive ability over the four years (duh), but the more a child was spanked, the less their intelligence developed and the further behind they fell compared to other children of similar starting intelligence who were not spanked.
No one said it's a perfect predictor - but it is a pretty accurate predictor. In general, most people with higher IQs will end up being more successful than most people with lower IQs. No, this doesn't mean that it's a 100% certainty for any given person, but it is a definite statistical trend.
Actually a highschool student's SAT/ACT score is one of the two best predictors of college grades (the other is highschool grades, which has about equal predictive value). That's why so many colleges use those tests, despite all the noise people make about them being unfair etc.
Motivation is important, yes. But a smart person will usually end up doing better than a less intelligent person of similar motivation.
But on average, a genius will be more likely to get to the top than an idiot.
I disagree grades are much more important, which why someone with a high GPA is more likely to get into a good school with lower than average test scores than someone who barely passed high school with higher than average test scores. If there are a lot of D's on your transcripts you're out of luck even if you scored 2300 on your SAT. But a straight A student with a score of 1700 would still be considered. At least at most schools.
Thank you very much.
I noticed that:
This study is old these kids are older than me. Hardly any research was done into these mothers and their children's home life, nor was a solid definition of being spanked given. There was no actual baseline for the study just an observation here and there nor were the IQs of the parents taken. The report said that mothers often couldn't remember accurately and accused many of them spanking their child during the interview and not knowing it, that might effect data. Plus the head researcher is heavily biased. Just like woman who said chimpanzees were peaceful creatures. Those are just what jumped out right away.
Again not saying his findings are wrong, but all research findings should be taken with a grain of salt. Even if 20 studies all say one thing 30 years later everyone's laughing at the ignorance. Just like how several marine biologist once "knew" it was impossible for there to be life at the bottom of the sea This was a pretty interesting topic, though.
Good for you... all the spankers in this thred who brag about how few times you have hit you'r children... i give you a "E" for effort... for at leas realizin its somptin to brag about :bugeye:
Even after you'r long gone like my parents... you'r dauter will still have fond menories of how she was raized.!!!
I apologize for coming in this late in the thread, but has anyone defined "spanking" as it is used in the context of this thread? I mean, are we talking an occasional swat on the hand as the child reaches for a cookie that's just out of the oven and still cooling? Or weekly beatings with a belt or stick if the school grades aren't high enough? Maybe something in between?
The reason I ask is because I find myself agreeing with both sides of the argument. I come from a generation where corporal punishment was an accepted part of child-rearing, I got more "paddlings" in school than I did at home. Some teachers were sadistic enough to drill holes in these 1 inch thick boards, so the welts were pretty serious, to the point of outright bleeding.
On the other hand, as I raised my daughters I had a rule I followed for corporal punishment - if she was putting herself in serious physical danger (e.g. breaking loose from my hand and running into the road), she could expect a spanking, by hand, along with the "normal" reasoning, explanation, grounding, whatever. I figured the risk to their mental health was worth the trade-off of being dead. It took only 2-3 such punishments per child to get the message across. (Call these events "assaults" if you choose)
All other infractions were dealt with in nonviolent ways - discussions, removal of privileges, etc.
Do we consider literally three, let's say four (in case of memory error) spankings in their entire lives as an indicator that the IQ would drop? Somehow I think not...
And I'm sorry if this was covered, but has anyone considered that families which consider severe corporal punishment as normal might have low IQ's themselves? Thus enters a genetic component, self perpetuating or not, that augments nurture?
I resent this argment cluless, the olld sayin "this herts me werse then you" can absalutly bee true. No bragin envolved...
ooooh babe spank me, plz....darling, yeah like that....mhmmmm....gently.
as for kids, I am against spanking them unless they misbehave real badly...like go brake something really expensive on purpose.
No, actually studies have found that when predicting college grades the predictive value of SAT/ACT scores are about as good as the predictive value of highschool grades. You get the best predictions by combining both (which is what most colleges do), but taken separately, they are about equally good. I'm sure you can find the studies is you google around for them.
It no dout can... an mayb thats why som parents try to limit how much they hit ther children... cause it hurts them worser than the child.???
I behaved as well as i did dew to love an respect i had for my parents which cam from the good esample they set by respectin me... not from fear of what they mite "do-to-me".!!!
I dont see any of the "spankins" above as necesary or desirable.!!!
My younger years was durin the 50's an i suspect "whippins" was the rage durin that period... it certanly was at school whare i esperienced a wide range of such abuce::: i received 1 whippin in the 4th grade an about 5 mor durin 7th thu 9th grade... however no blood jus bruses in the 4th grade... an in the 8th grade 1 lick wit a 1 inch thick walnut paddle... it was the wors pane i can recall havin an my knees bout buckled.!!!
My parents didnt have rules about when i woud be punished... they never punished me (corporal or otherwize)... an we all survived quite well.!!!
When i was 16 (on my birfday) i recked the family car... an when i got home an tolt dad what i had done... he didnt rush out to look at the car... insted we had a short discusson... which consisted of makin a plan of how i woud pay for an get the car repaired... an the discusson didnt include any such "removal of privileges ect"... so even tho i had messed-up i was treeted wit respect insted of "punishment"... an i worked it out in my own mind to return the respect by bein mor carful wit the car.!!!
I dont recall my dad readin many books (a couple about how to graft roses an a series of science type book-lets)... much less a book on how to raize kids... but i "lucked-out" big-time by havin him as a dad.!!!
Kind of doubt it, at least in my case. It's not like I harbored any secret desire to beat my children but was kept in check because I was afraid it would hurt me "worser".
That would be the idea, you're absolutely right. I'm assuming that you behaved reasonably well, of course. :bugeye:
You also didn't answer my question: Has spanking really been defined in this thread, or are we covering the whole spectrum from hand slaps to severe beatings that land children in the hospital with broken bones?
Yeah, it hurt like hell, didn't it? See, this is the type of punishment that is way overboard and totally counterproductive - just made me seriously hate the teacher that carried it out. And, it was always performed in front of the class, so you have the added humiliation factor. Not exactly a good example... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
It's only my opinion, but I feel pretty confident your parents had a set of rules they followed when meting out punishment, whether it was formal or informal. Assuming you lived with both parents, this would almost be a necessity, how else would they have stayed in synch? In order for punishment to be just, it must be fair, i.e. your father shouldn't say that it is perfectly acceptable for you to climb that tree while your mother in turn gives you a stern scolding for the same act. Surely you would agree on this point, no?
Furthermore, I think you missed my point on my use of corporal punishment in the 2-3 instances I felt it necessary. As I said, the behavior in question had a very real chance of involving life or death / maiming and serious injury to my child. My intent was to instill a reflexive action, not necessarily a reasoned one. The reasoning can, and did, come later. Don't step into the street without looking both ways, twice. YOU MIGHT DIE! Get it now?
Quite the coincidence, I was sixteen (though not right on my birthday) when I wrecked my father's brand-new Lincoln Continental. He handled it the same way, and achieved the same result.
Don't know exactly where the "book" reference came from, I didn't read any child rearing books either. (Take that back, there was one that came in a box of books bought at a garage sale, can't remember the title and don't think I got more than one or two chapters into it) Maybe I should have read more, no way to answer that now...
It would be nice if kids came with "Instruction Manuals" though, wouldn't it? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
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I think parents who never question assaulting their children, using "its how I was raised" as an excuse, do have lower IQs. How can a person never question it???
Reasonably well Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I thank all sorts of spankins have been covered in this thred... i dont see a need for any spankins.!!!
Yes his level of abuce was the worst an i also developed a hatred for the teecher that did that to me.!!!
But i thank the level of counterproductivness is directly purportional to the severity of the abuce.!!!
My 4th grade teecher finaly started usin the edge of her (thin) paddle an hittin me behind my knees in order to get me to cry... an even tho it left bruses an i walked kinda funny for a few days it didnt hurt all that much an i wasnt about to cry... lol... the normal routine was... she woud hit the kid 2 or 3 times... they woud start to cry an she woud send 'em to ther desk an they woud put ther haad down... she got so tired of hittin me that she even swithced the paddle to her other hand... but she finaly sent me to my desk but i jus stared at her... as i watched the rest of the class watchin me get my spankin... ther eyes was big as saucers... lol... but i dont recall feelin hate for that teecher all tho she did kinda scare me a few days later when she said my mom wont be thar to protect me when im captured in the army an the enemy runs water up my noise wit a rubber hose Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Yes my mom had complaned to the principle about the bruses an he tolt the teecher if i needed any punishments to send me to him an he woud do it properly... an also she was not to slap me in the face anymor... but ther was no mor such prollems an the rest of the year went oK.!!!
“ Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund
My parents didnt have rules about when i woud be punished... they never punished me (corporal or otherwize)... an we all survived quite well.!!! ”
Well to be clear... i was never spanked... givin a time-out (dont thank they was invented yet)... grounded or had my personal stuff took away... or sent to bed wit-out my supper... ect.!!!
You thank corporal punishment is the way to go in certan situatons... i thank a parent who teeches thru corporal punishment is at the very leas... ignerent of a mor productive way.!!!
If the child is to young to understan the reasonin of why not to step into the street... i suspect that the reflex acton they learned from you is... to espect a whippin when daddy holllers at me Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Depends on who rites the manuals.???
Uh, isn't that just an other way of propagation? Like telling people that it's bad to spank your kids, i.e. this study doesn't have to be "true"..
Personally, I think some kids deserve a good spanking.
Well, I'm not sure. I have heard that "spankins" increase proficiency in spelling... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!oke: :spank: Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
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