Spanking Lowers IQ Points

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by Orleander, Sep 25, 2009.

  1. shorty_37 Go! Canada Go! Registered Senior Member

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    I find it quite funny that only now are you explaining why you did what you did....:bugeye: The other thread is pages and pages long and MANY members thought the way you handled things with humiliation was totally wrong. After pages and pages you still never said a word. This is a routine for you on these boards when it comes to these kind of discussions. As soon as you start looking like the bad guy or a complete idiot you finally come out with an "explanation" of what happened. Then you expect it to all turn around so you don't look so bad. Personally you have done this so many times on this board that I don't believe a word you are saying. :zzz:
     
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  3. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    so, did she call me names? Is that why she came back? LMAO
    how predicable
     
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  5. shorty_37 Go! Canada Go! Registered Senior Member

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    Actually you are the predictable one, who loves to play mind games.

    I'm really done with discussing this topic with you because it is pointless and a waste of time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
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  7. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    and I don't think they did it more often than they do now. I think the majority of people do it the same way their parents did.
     
  8. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    Yes that was information that I would have liked to have yesterday.

    It wasn't about a specific situation. It was what is your alternative to spanking ?

    That appeared to be the standard operating procedure not a one time situation. IOW use humiliation.

    I don't feel what she did was wrong in that situation and I like the tactic actually for her kids actions. But it certainly lead me to believe that it was a common tactic.
     
  9. shorty_37 Go! Canada Go! Registered Senior Member

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    12,140
    If you re read that thread Spanking Alternatives http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=96705&highlight=spanking alternatives



    That is EXACTLY what she said, over and over. In 13 pages she just kept defending bribery and humiliation. Now all of a sudden weeks, and how many pages later she comes up with this story.

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    She is just trying to back pedal now.

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  10. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe. But I know that people used to slap their kids accross the face in the old days if they acted up right in public. Nobody does that now. That is extremely humiliating.

    My brother in law told me about an incident he witnessed between his uncle and grandmother he will never forget.

    His uncle was around 15 at the time, grandma hit him as hard as she could with an open handed round house slap to his face while in a store, in front of everyone.

    Thats emotional and physical abuse.
     
  11. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    I haven't seen that thread. But I thought there were alternatives offered in this thread, or maybe I am getting them confused on which is which. But I do remember how it came out at the time and maybe should have asked whether it was a one time deal or not, or she should have explained it so that was understood.

    Either way. It makes more sense knowing what prompted the action.

    Clueless would have said something like.

    If you were a better parent your kid wouldn't have done that in the first place therefore you wouldn't need to punish him.
     
  12. ripleofdeath Registered Senior Member

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    simply list the things children have done where they have "earnt" to be hit !

    IF you insulted my wife i would simply ask her if she wanted me to kill you and if she said yes you would be dead

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  13. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    oh please. I said I did it one time (go back and re-read the post) and since it worked I have never had to do it again.

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    And I don't really see how the reason makes it any less. Its either emotional torture or its not. I stated exactly what I did, was it humiliating emotional torture or not?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
  14. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    Fine, but that is not how I understood it. We asked about alternatives and that was your response. Knowing what I know now about what led up to it, makes you response different. Otherwise you are suggesting we take the same discipline action for all offenses. So it really was you IMO that needed to clarify it so we understood why.

    If you do that for normal discipline action, as it appeared then it was way over the top just like spanking a kid for every discipline action is way over the top.

    It makes a huge difference. Just like it does for spanking or any other chosen action.

    Think about it. If you said, that me kid forgot his lunch today so I am going to go down there and make him look like a fool in front of his classmates then I would say you are crazy and that it is very unfair to be so harsh.

    But, if your son made fun of a handicapped person, which I consider very serious, we are trying to raise good and decent children afterall. Then such action is to me acceptable to make your point, which in fact needs to be made.

    So although the punishment was very strong, it was called for and you rose to the occasion. I would say well done and good for you for doing so.

    You obviously took the action which is not your normal action so you obviously know the difference between when it's ok to take such a strong stance and when it's not.
     
  15. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    If you get into trouble in school, I will take the day off and go to school with you. I will sit in the back of the classroom and read. I will then walk to your locker with you and embarrass you as I see fit. "oh, she's a pretty girl, why don't you ask her out?" "Oh, look at those handsome uniforms, why don't you try out for football" all in my loudest voice. My son has had that done to him once. He told my daughter of the horror, so far she has behaved in school.

    But I said why. I told you he got in trouble at school.

    I have always taken a strong stance, which is why I rarely have to. And I've done it without assaulting them

    My children know how to have discussions and work things out. They don't resort to hitting. They are both smart enough to settle things the way we parents would want them to. I want my children to learn by example and I don't think assaulting them is setting a good example.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
  16. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Everbody agrees that punishments can be effective in situatons like you mentoned above... an i suspect you agree that the better parent will use the least severe type of discipline necesary to acheive a desired result.!!!

    So i ask you... dont you see it as desirable to raize a kid in such a way that fewer threats an punishments are necesary.???

    What kind of relatonship did you have wit you'r parents that they had to threatin you.???
     
  17. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    You did say he got in trouble in school fair enough, but what does that mean. That could be anything which might not come close to require such actions from you. But it is not that important now. I understand why you did it, and I support you in that action.

    Ah, but according to Clueless, if you have raised them right you wouldn't need to ever take a strong stance. You are going down the same slippery slope he is by judging my intent. I am not assaulting my kids. I take major offense at the suggestion. 6 spankings in 16 years for what I consider over the top crossing the line behavior moments. It's NOT the norm so why are we making such a huge deal about it.

    So do mine. Seems like it's not the spanking that is a problem. It's the lack of discipline by parents that create that.

    But if I take your stance then it's ok to humiliate them right ?

    You humiliator you, that's what you are doing to me by painting with such a wide brush.
     
  18. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I kept my mouth shut when I was given crap about humiliating my kids. I didn't care enough to get into it. But saying I tortured him....well, then you got the reason.
    How did my post mislead you?? Its not my fault you read it and assumed it meant something that wasn't there.

    And why is it ok to hit your kids 6x in 16 years (and I'm amazed you kept track

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    , cuz I sure as hell don't know how many times I have grounded my kids) but if you hit your wife that many times it wouldn't be ok.
     
  19. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    Why didn't you explain why at the time ?

    I would have. It would have cleared things up for me right away.

    Are we supposed to guess as to what happened. What you did was pretty extreme, an explanation would have been nice.

    I know how many times because it was not something that I wanted to do and it hurt to have to do it. My daughter was way tougher and bull headed and would keep going even when she knew what the result would be. The worst thing I could have done was back down or away from her at those times.

    I have no idea how many times I have grounded mine, but you remember having to go to school because of your son's actions in that instance.

    Not even going to answer the last part, it's too ridiculous to respond to, seriously.
     
  20. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    no, the answer is easy. A child can't hurt you back because you are 3x-4x bigger than them. You can go to jail for assaulting your wife. She can call the cops.

    And don't make it my fault that you assumed. :bugeye:
     
  21. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    6,658
    Origionly posted by cluelusshusbund
    ...even tho ive tolt you time after time what my alternative to spankin is... you an others keep sayin I dont have a alternative to "spankin"... lol.!!!


    You dont seem able to comprehind it... that little to no punishment is needed when a parent gives a child lots of positive attenton an the respect they deserve... an even tho you cant seem to get-it... what i described is far from doin nuthin... its bein a fantastic parent.!!!

    Thar you go agan... blamin the child for you'r poor parentin skills... an worse yet... you hit you'r kids for you'r mistakes... lol.!!!

    An sure... the big bad you can hurt an bully a 4 year old into doin thangs you'r way... but the fact that a 4 year old ant that good at reasonin shud be a clue that they ant gonna understan why you'r hittin 'em... lol.!!!

    You only whipped you'r kids about 3 times each... so why is it so dificult for you to "get-it" that my parents didnt need to whip me at all... i mean... do you thank all kids need at leas 1 whippin or they cant be taut disciplin... LOL.!!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
  22. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    A diference is... my parents didnt jus talk-the-talk they walked-the-walk... they didnt want to hit me an they didnt.!!!

    When my dad guided me along... he didnt have to go thru feelin bad for hittin me... an i didnt have to go thru feelin bad for bein hit... i know i felt beter after he woud pont me in the rite directon an let me be a paart of figerin out solutons... an no dout he was also pleased... i thank its so Godam simple you jus cant see the forest for the trees

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    If you realy dont want to hit you'r kids... why wont you even try to understan parentin skills that dont require that you'r kids be hit to learn discipline.???
    But sadly... im perty sure thats a retorical queston

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    O my sweet Jesus... an i supose you'r clueless as to how she aquired the trate of bein bull-headed an to "keep on goin"... lol.!!!

    The 2 year old i baby set for... when her parents woud tell her NO an smack at ther hands... she jus shifted into a higher gear... so they escalated the situaton by hollered louder an smacked her hands harder untill she finaly started cryin... but O well... at leas they got her to stop touchin what they didnt want her to touch <pathetic>.!!!

    As i demonstrated ever day she was in my charge... she didnt have to "act-up" to get attenton... she alredy had my attenton... an you call that type of parentin as "doin nuthin"... LOL... but at the end of the 9 houres i was mentaly exausted... an when i got called bak to my job i felt like i was on vacation... lol.!!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
  23. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    4,127
    This is precisely why I dropped out of this thread. It has degenerated totally - we're simply down to:
    1. I'm Right!
    2. No, I'm Right!
    3. No, you're not, now go f8ck yourself!
    4. Rinse and repeat...

    I believe I am one of the few, if any, other posters that attempted to present scientific evidence other than the OP. Ignored for the most part.

    It is simply anecdotes from both sides stating how they were raised and came out perfectly fine, followed by how their kids turned out fine as well.

    We have the extremists on one end claiming children can be raised, become contributing members of society and are perfectly wel adjusted - with absolutely no punishment whatsoever. Some vilify spanking, equating it with whipping and ultimately "abuse". Some claim the practice of time-outs is vicious torture no one should have to endure. And humiliation, which of course was an accepted method of punishment for adults a couple centuries ago, is absolutely out of the question. Are these people totally unable to grasp the concept of "degree"? It would certainly appear so.

    Then we have the closest thing to consensus on this thread - those people that actually have raised children, are capable of discerning that a few spankings in the early years can actually be beneficial, realize that spanking is probably not effective for teenagers, understand the need to communicate (not lecture) the reason for the punishment (before, during and after), etc...

    Many of the claims and statements (some from both sides) appear ludicrous on face value, at least to me. Let's examine the premise that children can be raised with absolutely no form of punishment, furthermore, any actions said child might undertake are the fault of the parents failures prior to the offense. Ridiculous, and if true could cause a worldwide reevaluation of parenting, school disciplinary policies, etc., all the way up through the military. Wouldn't it be nice if we could eliminate the "drop and give me 50" from boot camp? All we would have to is reason with the boy and explain why he should not be late for reveille, and it would never happen again. Same thing with juvenile justice system - no community service, no restitution necessary, just a nice friendly discussion. What wondrous secrets clueluss has locked away in his head... (What wondrous crap spews forth from the same source)

    Most attempts at a middle ground are quickly attacked by both extremes. No one wants to discuss this subject based on scientific data, all resemblance to civility is crumbling.

    You hit the nail on the head.
    The answer is a resounding "yes".

    So, we can let thread play out till everyone gets bored, or watch it escalate into flame war and get shot down. One way or the other, it will, and should be closed. IMHO.
     

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