I am willing to believe in a good God. But the God that you, many Christians and some other people, and the Bible describe, is an evil God. No matter how bad, stupid, weak or worthless I might be: I will not freely bow to an evil God. Do not be surprised to find that people get defensive when faced with an evil God. You have shut the door long ago when you started to follow an evil God. Good. Perhaps then you can begin to understand how I, and many other people feel when faced with people like you and your idea of God. Now consider yourself ignored.
You are being hateful, hurtful, arrogant, and placing conditions on god, which is ridiculous. God is what He is whether you like it or not, and with a bigoted and hard-hearted stance like the one that you've shown here, it is no wonder that you don't know Him. Your behavior demonstrates my point. Thank you.
Lori, the problem is this: You claim to know God. And so does millions of other people. Some are Buddhists who say there is no God. Some are Hindus claiming 330 million Gods. Some of Muslims, claiming a God as described by Mohammad. Some are Jews, claiming to know another God. Everyone one of these true religious adherents is very sincere and very confident that their version of God is the right one. Nothing can convince them otherwise. So why should I believe your view of reality over, say, the Dalai Lama's? The DL has devoted his whole life to dicovering the truth and thinks your views of God are absurd. I, personally, have not had any impactful "God communications" or experiences, though I have asked for them many times. I'm not angry or mad at God for not providing me any signs of his existence, however, I am still open to anything because I just don't know. So I respect your confident thoughts on who God is, but there are thousands of other very serious, meditative religious adherents who think God is someone completely different, or even non-existent. I have no way of knowing which of you is right.
well that's what i really don't understand either, is why people would want to turn my word into a belief. i've never expressed to anyone that they should. i've always testified to the fact that it's a personal relationship. that's not a personal one for me and then you just take my word for it. i have absolutely no idea how anyone could ever truly believe in something that they have not experienced. you may deduct, induct, whatever the fuck, according to what you hear or see. some things make logical sense, some things don't. but the topic at hand being such an important one, and knowing how wrong a person can be, i just don't think it's reasonable to leave it up to intellect or heresay, and i would have never believed in god if he hadn't shown himself to me. and he did, and i'm not special. we're all special. i think that truths can be found in many places and in many ways and that god can present himself to people in many different ways. people are different. their experiences are different, and what they know is different, and wouldn't it make sense that if god is our creator, that he would be very aware of those differences and respect them? if i'm not mistaken, this is a discussion forum about religion, and even though i don't consider myself to be a religious person, what i do like to talk about is spirituality, which is a topic of religions. i think it's cool to be able to discuss our spiritual experiences with each other, and ask opinions, and question the things that we're usure of. that doesn't mean that someone has to be right! why can't we just be honest and respectful, and let the rest work itself out? greenberg came on like he was genuinely interested in my experience and my opinion so i gave it to him honestly, and he didn't like my answer. i wonder if he would have rather i lied to him. well, i don't claim to know everything, but i know one thing, and that is i am not about to lie to anyone about this stuff. why do you have to decide upon a religion in order to know god? just do it...
i agree with you that when religious people come out with their finger flaring, and make condemning accusations like this, it is very arrogant, disrespectful, and hypocritical. i wonder what specifically they are suggesting that you are to repent for. it suggests that they are referring to some global or obligatory mandate by god, which is a ridiculous notion. he has never suggested that i apologize for something that i don't even realize i'm doing wrong. and even if i do realize that i've been wrong, repentence isn't some groveling submission to him. it's simply a realization and a consequential change in your behavior.
as good as you? because you have apparently determined what good is and what god should be. you are defining your own god. so why aren't you him?
Why cant you define your own god? Because somebody a long time ago already defined him for us? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
thank you for clearing that up for me. i'm not familiar with the scripture so i honestly didn't know one way or the other. and i'm not suggesting that the bible is wrong simply because i've had god use it too many times to show me the truth about something i've experienced. i've come to the conclusion that it's true regarding some perspective and purpose for which god is using it. in that vein, i don't regard the bible as a book necessarily, but a tool to be used by the author in whatever way he sees fit, given the circumstance. anyway, what i would suggest is to consider how much influence the beast, the devil, and false prophet had in determining their own fate. i mean after all, they're the beast, the devil, and the false prophet. their very roles in the bible serve to epitomize and perpetuate the evil in this world. it has been my experience that evil seeks to destroy itself according to law. so what i am suggesting is that if you look at the consequences of our wrong doings in this world, or our sin, they serve to torture us. we are in pain. i feel it. i see it. and it is due to our poor, and more importantly poor intentioned, choices. we are trapped, we are enslaved, we are sick, we are suffering, and we are dying in the flesh, and we are destroying our environment. quite possibly turning it into our hell. i feel free to make my own choices, the consequence of which are bound by law. i consider the laws of god to be perfect, and inherent in who he is, and that a big part of that law is the allowance of free will according to it. i also feel enslaved by the laws of society, which in many ways are driven by all of our sins. we are all made slaves of our greed, lust, envy, pride, sloth, wrath, and gluttony. how much of your time spent here is directed by greed alone? do you choose not to live? ask yourself what it would take for you to choose not to live in a perfect eternal paradise of peace, love, communion, and joy. i personally can't fathom what kind of mindset or intentions it would take, not to want that. also, what if the owner of the slaves were not just the owner, but their creator, who was an omniscient and omnipotent being because he is the creator, and always acted in the slaves best interest, whether the slaves were to realize that or not? what if, in his possession, the slaves were to be protected from what they did not realize. and what if outside this possession they faced the consequences of what they did not realize? what if the slave was given the free will to make good and bad decisions and then suffered the consequences of those decisions according to a perfect law, which rewarded good decisions with pleasantries and bad decisons with torture? would those consequences not be fair, and directive, and in the best interest of all? what if the slave owner loved the slaves so much, that he allowed them the choice to hurt themselves if that's what they really wanted to do. that is our owner and that is how i see things according to my experience with him. and i think that a lot of people who don't know him are afraid of him because they don't. he is the boss because he is who he is. he is the creator. he is the creator of the perfect law that we all live under. but the choice to abide is all yours. and nds, i want to thank you. after a lot of experiences that i've had here in sciforums, trying to communicate with people about my thoughts and opinion, i want to thank you for being so respectful, kind, humble, and honorable even when that opinion may differ from your own. i enjoy sharing my thoughts and opinions with you. and i don't feel threatened or abused if we differ. thanks.
can you even define yourself? how many times must i suggest not to take someone else's word for it, but to experience him for yourself? you still wouldn't be able to define him given the experience. but at least you would know him, and make an informed decision.
If taken litterally,I would have to agree with you.There are indeed many acts and qualities assigned to the biblical God that do seem highly disturbing and immoral by our standards. On a literal level I consider it a very archaic and outdated portrayal of God. I can value much of the bibles' content but only in a spiritual ,symbolic way...metaphors and parables that attempt to convey a message. I know you atheists guys and gals dispute near death accounts as valid "proof" of the afterlife so I won't go into any long discussion here but the overall consensus I've seen in readings hundreds of them is that God is indeed good.
Thanks, and same to you. After all, we're all trying to figure out a) why we're and b) what exactly we have to do. I see your point about the fact that we choose, in large part, where we will go in the afterlife (assuming one exists). Our actions, thoughts, beliefs, etc. may all play a part, even though a dictator is the one possibly giving us those choices. But on the point of God throwing us into a lake of fire for eternity, here's my other problem: Let's say a father's son does something bad (DWI accident, drops out of school, etc.). The father, like you mentioned, will scold the son in order to teach him that what he did was bad. He is scolding/punishing the son for the son's own good. So that, the next time around, the son doesn't mess up again. This kind of temporary punishment is punishment I can understand, because it is meant for improvement of the one being punished. And if the son is improved, then the father is more happy because he worries less about the son and doesn't have to keep helping the son and punishing him. The father doesn't like punishing the son because the father loves the son. Now, how exactly is God throwing people into an eternal lake of fire "helping" them out? How is, never giving them another chance, "helping" them to improve? It isn't. In this regard, the following verses that Adstar once pointed out to me are pretty interesting: 1 Peter 3:18-20 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. Is this verse saying that the millions of sinful spirits who died in the flood got a second chance while they were in hell? This brings up a whole array of other thoughts as well.
You would never have had any experiences whatsoever had not someone already told you about their experiences. You merely "copy/pasted" them, just like every other theist.
you're making a blind and false assumption, and i think you sound very stupid when you express that. you're calling me a liar. you have absolutely no valid reason for doing so, except for that fact that you want to, and you're wrong.
While the magnitude of your clarity of synthesis and solvent is impressive, it's not exactly a response that could just have easily been worded thusly: "Nope." Can you actually distinguish and verbalize your account of when these experiences began? Could you then recall your life as a theist and compare that with a time you had those experiences and the time you first heard of your religion?
Thank you. That's exactly what I expected. Now, would the moderator please change the title of this thread to: "Some preaching from my side..."
it's an opinion. it's a perspective. it's different from yours. it's a suggestion that presented what i feel is a valid point. you don't have to agree. boo hoo. run along and tell the moderator like some child. throw a rock at me. stick out your tongue. go pout in the corner. call me a name. do what you want to.
It would be suggested and perhaps actioned that I require immediate therapy and medications if having agreed and propagated your perspectives amongst those who knew me, and even those who didn't. Your kindergarten playground intellect is as enlightening as chewing a wad of tinfoil.
You believe in a great many fairy tales, like the one in which communicating with you is for your benefit. To place the term 'logic' into the title of your thread would make one assume you were going to demonstrate logic. So far, you've not demonstrated an ounce of logic or anything remotely similar.
