Some facts about guns in the US

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by James R, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

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  3. Bells Staff Member

    Suffer the little children..

    A 3-year-old boy had been playing with a handgun he found in his home before fatally shooting himself in the chest with it, police said Friday.

    In audio tape of a 911 call released by Hamilton police, a woman identifying herself as the mother of Marques Green said she carried the gun in her purse and had set her purse down after getting home.

    "My son just shot himself, and I'm not getting a pulse," Elizabeth Green screamed Thursday afternoon. "Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I'm not getting a pulse ... I don't think he's alive!"

    It's the second apparently accidental gunshot death of a young person this month in Hamilton, a city of 62,000 people nearly 30 miles north of Cincinnati.

    The Butler County prosecutor said he will take the case to a grand jury, probably next week.

    Prosecutor Mike Gmoser said Friday that after "a groundswell of attention" about children and guns, grand jurors in the county should hear evidence about how the child had gotten a gun and on whether any charges should be filed.


    Earlier Thursday, a 16-year-old boy was arraigned in juvenile court on a charge of reckless homicide after the June 3 shooting of a 14-year-old Hamilton boy.

    Investigators have said they believe the boys were playing with a gun when it discharged, striking Gabriel Mejia in the head. He died last week. An attorney for the 16-year-old boy said the defense plans to enter a not-guilty plea.

    [CBS News]​

    Praise be to gun culture.

    While we may not want to imagine the nightmare this woman's life will be, with the knowledge that it was her gun that ultimately killed her son, and that her son was able to access that loaded gun from her purse, at what point are people going to realise the dangers of keeping guns in close proximity of children? Was this gun in her purse supposed to be for her safety? Why was it even there?

    While Ohio gun laws can be used to hold parents responsible if their children willfully or maliciously assault another person, there is no law that holds them criminally accountable for injuries caused by not properly securing their guns.

    According to the U.S. Center for Disease Control and Prevention, nearly 2,400 people under the age of 21 have died from unintentional shootings between 1999 and 2010. A 2013 investigation by the New York Times found that number of children killed in accidental gun deaths was twice as high as records indicated. There are no nationwide statistics on the age of a person behind accidental shootings — not even for those that result in deaths.

    Laws on holding gun owners responsible for unintentional deaths or injuries caused when children get a hold of guns vary from state to state. Fewer than 20 states have enacted laws that would hold adults criminally liable to secure guns in a manner that would prevent children from having access to them.

    While Ohio does not have such a law, a bill to require safe storage was introduced in March that would render it illegal to “store or leave a firearm in a manner or location in the person’s residence if the person knows or reasonably should know that a minor is able to gain access to the firearm.”

    While that bill has not yet been voted on, there is a chance that Elizabeth Green will be held accountable for the death of her 3-year-old son.

    Think Progress]

    What a way to learn a god damn lesson.
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  5. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    From basic training long long long ago and far away:
    "This is my rifle and this is my gun.
    This one's for shooting and this one's for fun."

    Leaving one's "gun" behind in a bathroom seems to indicate a really horrible disease.
    Which I wouldn't wish on anyone.
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  7. Bells Staff Member

    It's okay folks.

    This man is a trained professional.

    A police officer in Whitehall, Ohio, accidentally shot and wounded a 4-year-old girl Friday while attempting to shoot her family's dog instead.

    Columbus, Ohio, police Officer Jonathan Thomas was investigating a hit-and-run in Whitehall on Friday when a woman came up to him asking for help, according to The Columbus Dispatch.

    The woman told Thomas that her sister -- later identified as Andrea Ellis -- had cut herself and needed medical attention.

    When Thomas arrived at the doorway of the residence, one of the family dogs ran at him, according to Columbus police spokeswoman Denise Alex-Bouzounis. Thomas pulled out his gun and fired, inadvertently hitting the young girl in the leg. The 4-year-old, who is reportedly Ellis' daughter, is in stable condition and expected to make a full recovery.

    Gary Parsley, who said he was the hit-and-run victim Thomas was speaking with shortly before the shooting, told WBNS that the officer had other options besides firing at the dog.

    Worse still, it seems the officer left the house and went back to his car after shooting the girl. It is unclear, as yet, whether he provided first aid to the child he shot.

    Gary Parsley II said the officer was following up with him about Parsley’s being struck by a car a couple weeks ago. When the girl’s aunt called out to the officer, the officer walked over and Parsley returned to his house, when he heard a shot.

    Neighbors say the officer walked back to his patrol car after the shooting.

    “He seemed a little disoriented, like he was really bothered,” said Norman Jones, who called the police after hearing the shot. Columbus and Whitehall police arrived at the scene shortly afterward.

    Neighbors say Ellis came out of the house saying her daughter had been shot.
  8. Kristoffer Giant Hyrax Valued Senior Member

    I had a dog run at me minutes ago. My first reaction was to pet it.
    This was clearly the wrong response. I shoulda pulled a gun like a pro and fired at that happy dog.

    I'd make the worst cop ever.

    Now that the sarcasm is done with I'll just say, thank the random fluctuations in space and time that the little girl made it.
  9. Bells Staff Member

    Only if there is a child nearby.

    Because that's how the pro's do it.

    I'd buy an uzi.

  10. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    American cops seem to have declared war on dogs a few years ago.
  11. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

    Maybe it's because cops are now taught to shoot first and work up a lame-assed excuse, sorry, an explanation two weeks later? Or because intelligent cops are a thing of the past?

    Dogs are just like perps, niggers, fags and bums, after all, right?

    I used to know some good people in the police force where I've lived, but most of them got sick of it and retired.
  12. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    about 800,000 state and local cops in this country
    and the insanity of social media and mainstream media only shows us the few who fuck up royally.

    beware instrument bias
  13. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

    Yep. Thank you. I appreciate and agree with you.

    I'm still pissed off..
  14. sculptor Valued Senior Member


    I do not appreciate sloppy workmanship by anyone. And if it involves deadly force, I'm even less tolerant.
  15. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

    My point is that stupid people shouldn't be given the option to make that judgment. And that stupid people are often recruited for these positions due to, shall we say, "marketing skills" on the part of the PTB?

    I guess I'm not a liberal anymore, eh?

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  16. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    simple solution
    If a cop does a bad shooting, fire his boss and replace him/her with someone who will take the time to train the workforce.
  17. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Just out of curiosity, is the idea that "Someone did his job today!" really all that newsworthy?

    Consider all the so-called "good cops".

    I live in a state where police are not required to provide available evidence. The state, being the only possessor of some of the evidence, is allowed to destroy that evidence and still proceed with prosecution.

    Furthermore, the State of Washington has decided that a police officer can shoot someone for no reason, falsely claim self-defense, get caught perjuring the police report, and, furthermore, get caught manipulating the physical evidence, and there is exactly no reason to file charges.

    Tell me what you want about the "good cops", but are you really going to ask so many people to blithely put their lives in danger just because a cop wants to talk to them? What, are citizens supposed to have "good cop/bad cop radar"?

    The first problem is the bad cops.

    The second problem are the so-called "good" cops who support the bad cops.

    Genuinely good police officers? They are a severe statistical minority. With a license to commit otherwise criminal acts including killing you for no reason, what do you think people should do? Simply sit back and let the corrupt cops continue to kill and steal?

    This whole, "What about the good cops?" bawl has its place, but we have to recognize you're asking people to ignore a tremendous problem for the sake of a few people whose feelings might be hurt.

    And, you know, they're cops. Are their feelings more important than someone's life?
  18. Emmana Registered Member

    We do not have prayers in the classroom. Got rid of that thank goodness. We do not mix religion with government nor with education. Religion is manmade and has naught to do with God. God is not a person, not a him, it is not a god but a Consciousness. We want to keep your religion, psychopaths, guns, hatred, politics, fake boobs and Monsanto out of here too. We are Canadian. We live in a happy world compared to USA which is an ongoing dramatic tragedy. All guns come from your side and I think a Great Wall should be built too to protect us from your mass hysteria and insanity.
  19. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Your complaint ain't with nor about the cops/police.
    Your complaint derives directly from your elected representatives/legislature who have chosen to place the cops, prosecutors, etc... above the law.
    When there is one law for the common citizen, and another law for the government functionaries, then that state is in a state of tyranny.
  20. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    And Unto You Also

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    I think you just made the point for me, Sculptor. Just like our laws, you want to protect police from answering for their behavior.

    Also, go back and study the eighties and nineties, which is the arc that directly connects to today through our WAD and TWAT; attend what the politicians said, which politicians said them, and what the voters voted for. If you want me to blame the elected representatives for passing the laws that empower the police to behave badly, that's fine. I'm certainly happy to do so. But that excuses neither the police who behave badly, nor the voters who put the pressure on the politicians to pass those laws.

    The interesting thing about your formulation―

    "When there is one law for the common citizen, and another law for the government functionaries, then that state is in a state of tyranny."

    ―is that even I recognize the need for certain extraordinary cover. The problem, however, is that we've turned it into blanket cover. The same cover that prevents police from facing frivolous lawsuits and criminal complaints of kidnapping under color of law from every person they arrest is also part of the statutory and philosophical justification for why there is no reason to file charges against a police officer who has demonstrably committed murder; under the law, he can lie in good faith. Under the law, police have no obligation to know what laws they enforce. In my state they don't need to support their incident reports with evidence. And you can blame the politicians and prosecutors and judges all you want for making it this way, but in the end it is still a cop who decides to behave that way.

    Why climb the mountain? Because it's there. Why shoot a deaf guy, perjure oneself in the incident report, and manipulate the physical evidence to match, but do it so badly that one gets caught? Because one can.

    There are plenty contributing to the clusterdiddle. Politicians, judges, prosecutors, public defenders, and, yes, even voters. But when it comes right down to any cop's decision to behave badly, each to his or her own, and that means yes, this is about the police.

    It is ironic to see you complaining of tyranny while trying to reserve from consideration one of the most potent elements of tyranny in our society.

  21. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Au contraire.
    I would rather that any homicide merit a trial and jury, including homicide by cop.
  22. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    You do realize how impossibly time-consuming and expensive that would be, right?
  23. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Time and money on one side of the balance and a human life on the other side..............

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