Some facts about guns in the US

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by James R, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    5,160
    The main problem with any prohibition, including a gun prohibition, are criminals don't obey law in the same way the law abiding do. Criminals are more likely to engage in the prohibition activity, with a large supply of guns made possible due to a lucrative black market that is always created after a prohibition.

    In terms of guns, criminals will still have guns, even if all the law abiding citizens go along with the prohibition. The guns will still be needed for protection, security and offensive measures, to help maintain all the other tax free black markets created by other prohibitions, like drug laws.

    For example, there are many recreational drugs that are currently prohibited, from marijuana to heroin. The most law abiding citizens will avoid these and follow the law, even if irrational. This may be out of fear or good citizenship. All those people who are not law abiding, due to their own justification, are able to get all these drugs, due the tax free black market. When all is said and done, after all the prohibitions, it is mostly the liberal criminals that will have all the drugs and guns.

    The math in the last line may be the real motivation, since street criminals are more likely to side with the democrats, since the democrat supports criminal rights. This is only half of the equation.

    Defense lawyers tend to give the majority of their campaign donations to democrat candidates. Defense lawyers benefit by having more laws on the books, especially law that can create new victims and more criminals they can defend. I can see the push to prohibit guns as also being part of a political money laundering scam, where lawyers get more business, due to laws that favor the black market and criminals. The extra business results in more donations to democrats who support such laws.

    If there is no law, there is no crime and therefore there is no need for a lawyer. If we had a world full of only liberal criminals with guns, defense lawyer stock would be at an all time high. The extra money will be kicked back to democrats for more laws=more criminals. This why democrats love to regulate; more laws=more criminals due to new violations. This adds to the need for more lawyers.

    Criminals have the highest rate of gun violence, with 90% of the homicides in Chicago, gang related. If the real goal was to reduce gun violence, it would address the 90% and not the random who own guns. Saving lives is not the goal. The real goal is to achieve 100% violence for liberals, with the honest citizens not having guns. This maximizes lawyers.
     
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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    That is also the opinion among the rightist gun confiscators. It's an authoritarian/libertarian split, not a left/right one. You confuse yourself by irrelevant references to "leftist" - notice that the Blackwater operatives who confiscated black people's guns in the aftermath of Katrina were not "leftist", neither are the many police departments - such as New York City's or Washington DC's - who have advocated for and then welcomed gun restrictions for the private citizenry.

    Historically, national tyranny has almost always been imposed by paramilitary thugs and organized criminals operating at the neighborhood level with the support of local law enforcement. Nobody with any sense is talking about fighting off stealth bombers and the US Marines, just as in the original nobody was talking about fighting off the Continental army or the Iroquois Nation entirely mobilized to war.

    The blacks of the old Confederacy just needed to be able to handle the KKK, not the 1st Infantry.
     
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  5. Bells Staff Member

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    Update on Police Chief William McCollom..

    A police chief in Georgia told a 911 dispatcher he accidentally shot his wife while moving a handgun that was in their bed, according to a recording released Friday.

    Peachtree City police Chief William McCollom called for help at 4:17 a.m. New Year's Day and reported accidentally shooting his 58-year-old wife, Margaret. The Associated Press obtained a recording of the call Friday through an open records request. The Georgia Bureau of Investigation is looking into the shooting.

    McCollom spoke calmly in the audio recording, telling a dispatcher he needed medical help for an accidental gunshot wound at his suburban home, about 30 miles southwest of Atlanta.

    "Who shot her?" the dispatcher asked.

    "Me," McCollom said. "The gun was in the bed, I went to move it, and I put it to the side and it went off."

    During the call, McCollom said his wife was having difficulty breathing and appeared to be suffering from both internal and external bleeding. She was flown by helicopter to Atlanta Medical Center, where she was listed in critical condition Thursday.

    McCollom's wife can be heard crying in the background.

    "Oh my God," the police chief said. "How the hell did this happen?
    "​


    Resisting temptation to make the obvious jokes...

    Who takes loaded guns to bed?

    *Sigh*..
     
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  7. Bells Staff Member

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    Finest and brightest...

    A Kentucky police officer is recovering from non-life-threatening injuries after accidentally shooting himself in the stomach inside an elevator on Friday.

    Video from the scene shows officer Darryl Jouett, a 25-year veteran of the Erlanger, Ky., police department, entering an elevator in Cincinnati with his wife, who was not identified. Jouett, who was off-duty and not in uniform, is seen talking to his wife and holding a box in one hand while apparently trying to adjust his pants or shirt.

    At one point, Jouett pulls out his police-issued .40-caliber semiautomatic handgun, looks at it then attempts to put it back into his holster.

    "He was transitioning the holster and transitioning the gun out of his holster. He was going to carry it in his hand as they walked to the car," Cincinnati Capt. Michael John told WLWT. "As he was pulling the gun from the holster, a round discharged, ricocheted in the elevator, struck him in the stomach."

    Jouett fell, and his wife quickly made a phone call and then ran out of the elevator to get help.

    He was taken to a local hospital, The Cincinnati Enquirer reported. By Monday, Jouett was recovering at home but told WCPO that he had been instructed not to speak about the shooting
    .​


    We should note that he tried hard to not drop what looked to be a cake box after he had been shot.. Fell to his knees and he was still gripping that box.

    Must have been some cake.. He didn't even get his wife to hold the cake box while he tried to juggle around with his loaded gun.

    Oh no, no, that would be too practical and smart. No, best to juggle that gun around with one hand, with the safety off. The alternative is to hand over the cake box. Can't have that...

    But really, he couldn't walk to the car without a gun in his hand? Is this what people do?
     
  8. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    I'm sad to say that there are places in the USA where civilization has broken down--in some of our inner cities that are characterized by poverty and crime. After dark, the gangs take over and the odds are indeed rather high that a person without a weapon might be robbed--or raped, if female. Or simply shot in the cross-fire of a gang war.

    It goes without saying that most of these neighborhoods are Afro-American. This can be blamed almost entirely on the authorities using the War on Drugs as an excuse to arrest, prosecute and imprison black men. Every study indicates that the rates of drug use in the Euro-American and Afro-American communities are virtually identical; in fact, we smoke more grass than black people! Nonetheless, a black man is twice as likely to be arrested on drug charges than a white man; once arrested he's twice as likely to be prosecuted; and once prosecuted he's twice as likely to be sent to prison.

    The result of this is that a large portion of America's black male population is in prison (they're only 12% of the general population but 50% of the prison population), leaving a community with few male role models. Once they get out they can't get a decent job with a prison record, so they become the drug dealers from whom we upstanding white folks get our stash. Those same guys can't move back in with their wives or girlfriends, because they will lose their welfare benefits if a convicted felon is living in their home.

    As a result, a whole generation of young black men are growing up with no father figures, except for the well-dressed, gold-encrusted, Ferrari-driving drug dealers. Their mothers do their best, but a community without male role models is unlikely to produce a new generation of male role models. So the kids turn to gangs.

    That said, there aren't very many places in the USA where a person can't safely walk to his car in the daylight, especially if he is obviously carrying a gun.

    Walking with the gun in his hand? Either this guy was paranoid, or perhaps he owed his drug dealer a lot of money.

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    An aside: you may be wondering why more of these single black women don't simply marry (or cohabit with) white men. We find them a little exotic, and due to their circumstances, both strong and wise. But many of them simply won't date white men. They even call women who do "traitors."

    Can you imagine the uproar if there were a shortage of white men and the single white women were quoted saying, "We don't want to date or marry black men."
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    It sounds like it was just getting in the way of his clothing adjustments and box-holding as holstered, and then was awkward to replace - so he was going to carry it instead. That makes sense: those things do get in the way, and the holster fit is not set up for quickdraw competitions. You'll see people do that with purses and bags and scarves and gloves and such, even car keys.

    That's why conceal carry permission slips don't lead to mayhem - once the thrill wears off, the hassle of dealing with the damn thing starts to wear on. They're about the heaviest,l clumsiest piece of jewelry anyone ever tries to wear, in the US anyway, and they become items for special occasions or genuine threat.

    If the reason for the shortage were that the black men had collectively and in cooperation with each other shot, caged, or otherwise got rid of the white men, the reaction might be quiet approval. The French women who refused to date or marry Germans during WWII did not create an uproar.
     
  10. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    It's more likely the other way round, explaining why black women don't want to marry white men.

    It's we who have "got rid of" the black men by putting so many of them in prison for selling drugs... to us.
     
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    "I'm not that surprised.."

    Open carry activists in Texas...

    We have all seen images of them, with their big military assault rifles and other long guns protesting in the streets and using eateries and department stores as a back drop for their open carry demands.

    Because you know, everybody needs an assault rifle to shop at Target or to buy a packet of Oreos.

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    Particularly useful on pensioner pay days..

    Not content with scaring shoppers and diners by arriving in large groups, all armed, Open Carry groups are also renown for their police monitoring activities. With their big guns in tow. Being, for the majority, white, they are not shot at, even when they get violent and behave in a threatening manner towards the police during routine traffic stops and in the police attempting to perform their jobs. All while carrying their big assault rifles.

    So it was only a matter of time before one of them killed someone.

    Meet Veronica Dunnachie

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    Second from the left.. She is an Open Carry Texas activist, known for, yes, swarming local businesses along with her well armed buddies.

    She is one of the people who is tasked in, as the Open Carry Texas advocate on their website:

    Condition Texans to feel safe around law-abiding citizens that choose to open carry

    So by going to shopping malls and eateries in large groups with their assault rifles, they are conditioning their fellow Texans to feel safe around them and their guns.

    Except..

    Police say a woman has been charged with capital murder in the shooting deaths of her husband and step-daughter in the 2500 block of Edinburgh Street.

    A search warrant affidavit states Veronica Dunnachie, 35, shot her husband, Russ Dunnachie, as well as his adult daughter Kimberly Wednesday afternoon. She then spoke with a friend on the phone who convinced her to drive to a mental health facility 11 miles away, Millwood Hospital, on North Cooper Street. That's where police arrested her without incident
    .​

    A local school was also put into lockdown while the crime was still active.

    Family and friends, as expected, expressed shock and disbelief. Facebook lit up about what had happened and how everyone was shocked. Well, sort of:

    I knew her, I'm not that surprised.


    You're not that surprised?

    So, Veronica had exhibited behaviour that meant that at least one person was not that surprised that she shot her husband and step daughter in the family home... And no one thought to say anything?

    Others were more concerned about how this could look for the open carry movement.. Because two people shot dead by one of their own members, then putting a neighbourhood and school into lockdown, that is less of a concern?

    So much for feeling safe around these so called law abiding citizens who choose to open carry, eh? And so much for the push to arm "the good guys".. Veronica featured quite prominently on the Open Carry facebook page:

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    Momma may not have raised a victim, but she did raise a killer.

    More disturbingly and again in Texas, a recent Bill is proposing that open carry teachers can now kill students to protect school property..

    The Lone Star State already permits teachers to have firearms in the classroom, but H.B. 868, also known as the Teacher’s Protection Act, would authorize instructors to use “force or deadly force on school property, on a school bus, or at a school-sponsored event in defense of the educator’s person or in defense of students of the school that employs the educator.” Instructors would also have the right to use deadly force “in defense of property of the school that employs the educator.” Moreover, civil immunity would be granted to those who use deadly force, meaning they would not be liable for the injury or death of student.

    Having a teacher whip out his or her trusty sidearm to protect one's students from encroaching bears or Muslims or one of Texas's many, many other proud gun toters who may have momentarily lost one's mind is one thing, but instructing teachers that they are to use deadly force in defense of school property and that they don't have to worry about getting sued afterwards, now that adds a whole new layer o' Texas. Presumably this new law is needed because on occasion teachers have come across students defacing school lockers and have been previously unclear on whether or not that is sufficient grounds to shoot them in the head (answer: yes!) or because little Timmy (oh, who am I kidding, little Miguel) is preparing to carve his initials into a desk and only a teacher's well-placed bullet can stop the destruction of school property that is about to occur. (This also stands to make turn-in-your-textbooks day considerably more exciting. Better hope I don't see any penned-in mustaches in your history book, you little snots.)


    I know, I know, it's Texas...

    But really.. This is madness..
     
  12. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    Forrest Gump Joke Goes Here..


    Things went wrong fast when a 3-year-old in Albuquerque found a gun in his pregnant mother’s purse Saturday afternoon. The toddler shot both of his parents after he grabbed a loaded 9mm handgun instead of an iPod.

    Police say both parents have survived, Albuquerque Journal reports.

    The incident happened around 2 p.m. at America’s Best Value Inn. One shot was fired by the boy; the bullet hit his father in the right buttock, which exited out of his hip and struck the mother in her right arm. She’s eight months pregnant, says Officer Simon Drobik of Albuquerque Police Department.
    .

    One bullet.. One buttock and a shoulder..

    One million dollar shot..

    There needed to be a good kid with a gun in there. If only the 2 year old had had a gun, none of this would have happened.
     
  13. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    This is, unfortunately not at all rare. People simply do not realize how clever, inventive and determined their children can be... at exactly the wrong time. While the most responsible gun owners (yes, I know that's an oxymoron) keep their weapons locked up so even a burglar would have a hard time getting at them, other people do not, so their children kill themselves, their siblings, their pets and even their parents far too often.

    After all, it is children who figure out how to change the channel on the TV on the dresser in their room. They pull out the drawers and use them as a stairway. As they approach the top, quite off-center, it topples over on them.
     
  14. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    Bang bang bang go the boobies!..

    AN elected Republican official in the US Midwest fatally shot herself in an eye while trying to adjust her bra holster, investigators have found.

    Christina Bond, 55, had died at her home at Lake Michigan on January 1 from what Michigan Department of Public Safety and Berrien County Sheriff’s Department inSt Joseph believed was from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to an eye.

    St Joseph Public Safety Department is awaiting a full autopsy report in the death of Bond, but director Mark Clapp yesterday released details about the circumstances surrounding the shooting to the Kalamazoo Gazette.

    “She was having trouble adjusting her bra holster, couldn’t get it to fit the way she wanted it to. She was looking down at it and accidentally discharged the weapon,” said Clapp
    .​


    Lesson One..

    How to not be a boob with guns...

    *Sigh*

    Too soon.. Too soon..
     
  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    37,893
    The View to a Kill

    The lede from Aaron Mueller is pretty straightforward:

    A woman who accidentally shot herself in the eye on New Years Day at her Lake Michigan home was adjusting the handgun in her bra holster, police say.

    The report, posted today via MLive for the Kalamazoo Gazette, explains:

    St. Joseph Public Safety detectives are still waiting on the full autopsy report in the death of Christina Bond, 55, but released the new details to the Kalamazoo Gazette on Wednesday.

    "She was having trouble adjusting her bra holster, couldn't get it to fit the way she wanted it to. She was looking down at it and accidentally discharged the weapon," said St. Joseph Public Safety Director Mark Clapp.

    Officers responded to 396 Upton Drive at 5:10 p.m. Jan. 1 to find Bond with a gunshot wound to the eye. She was taken to Lakeland Hospital and then airlifted to Bronson Methodist Hospital where she died the next day.

    It's fashion to die for.

    And it really is hard to offer proper condolences for the grieving when reaching for the spatula to peel your jaw off the desk. Seriously, this is how important people's guns are to them?

    And, you know, in truth, when I read the Associated Press wire report via HuffPo, sure, there was that moment of disbelief, but, okay, it's easy enough at this point to imagine this happening. Except at that point, one is easily excused for mistakenly thinking she would have shot herself in the chest or abdomen.

    But she shot herself in the eye?

    There is no mental image arising right now that doesn't look like a freakin' Looney Tunes short featuring a soot-covered face, no feathers, and Daffy's freakin' bill spun around to the back of his head.

    And, you know, for all we hear about guns and self-defense, what part of that requires a secret-agent fantasy? You know―Is that a gun in your bra, or are you happy to see me because you think I'm a plastic surgeon who can take care of an anatomical anomaly?

    ____________________

    Notes:

    Mueller, Aaron. "Woman who fatally shot herself in eye was adjusting her bra holster, St. Joseph police say". MLive. 18 February 2015. MLive.com. 18 February 2015. http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2015/02/woman_who_fatally_shot_herself.html

    Associated Press. "Woman Dies After Accidentally Shooting Self With Gun In Bra Holster". The Huffington Post. 18 February 2015. HuffingtonPost.com. 18 February 2015. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/18/christina-bond-shoots-self-gun-bra_n_6707468.html
     
  16. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    I've looked back thru 7 pages to see if anyone answered the question I still have:
    Is it true that there are more hand guns in the US than adult males of voting age - I read that some years ago, but would like a quotable reference. Thanks.
     
  17. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Aparently that specific statistic ant readily available... but are you surprized by this:::

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/20098/gun-ownership-use-america.aspx

    "Americans aged 18 to 29 are slightly less likely than those who are older to be gun owners. Only one in five 18- to 29-year-olds (21%) say they own a gun, while 32% of 30- to 49-year-olds and 31% of those aged 50 and older report ownership."
     
  18. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    Last statistic I saw said that more than half of Americans own guns.

    Even among my own acquaintances, most of whom are university-educated professionals with demanding careers and, therefore, presumably not a lot of time to indulge in fantasies of the Wild West, I'm amazed at the number who have guns.

    It seems that every individual is 100% certain that he is not like everyone else: 5 times as likely to kill himself, a friend, a family member, a confused stranger; or for the gun to be discovered by a child; or to be stolen or wrestled out of his hands and used in a lethal crime... than to actually use it against a human assailant or a predatory animal with both the intention and ability to cause great harm.
     
  19. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    8,000
    Ther are a lot of delusional gun owners.!!!
     
  20. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    Of course there are criminal networks in the USA with large amounts of money, who can afford to buy guns. But the average street thug simply doesn't have the cash to buy one. An enormous percentage of the guns used in crimes are stolen from these paranoiacs masquerading as "law abiding citizens."

    Legal gun owners are, indeed, the root of the problem. It's their guns that are used in tragic shootings.
    Wrong. Street criminals vote Republican because the Republican Party is in the pocket of the National Rifle Assholes, and will make sure to maintain their easy access to guns.

    Well actually, a large percentage of street criminals don't want the government to know where to find them, so they don't register to vote at all.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2015
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  21. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,476
    ...facts about guns...(a rifle actually)
    150 grain
    3200 fps at 3410 ft-lbs at the muzzle
    2300 fps at 1755 ft-lbs at 400 yards
    still deadly at 800-1000 yards
    (pull her tight to the shoulder, and hang on, 'cause the damned thing has quite a kick)

    60-80 pounds of meat for a $2.00 bullet and a $2.00 deer tag.
    Trade the hide for a $7.00 pair of gloves and the meat is free.
    (and the dog seems to like the bones)
    What else did you really need to know?
    ....................
    I met the game warden the other day, tall woman carries a 40 caliber hand gun, and has an interesting sense of humor. She told me that I actually had to sell something to keep qualifying for the land owner/farm lot shooting privilege, so that very night, I sold a bottle of home made maple syrup....i'm legal again

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    (some stuff is easy to sell)
    ..............
    It seems that many anti gun nuts are also delusional.
    Boxing themselves in their tiny fantasy worlds and seeing only their own reflections on the glass.
    ...................
    first, we gotta ban all weapons for the military and police, then we can work on the civilian stuff
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2015
  22. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    23,198
    From the comments above, and noting that many hand gun owners have several, It seems what I read some years ago is still correct. Namely there is a hand gun in the US (or more) for every adult male of voting age.
     
  23. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

    Yeah it coud be.... but for sure... it looks like people in the USA have lots of guns.!!!

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