Some facts about guns in the US

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by James R, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    We do have speed limits, and of course you need a license to drive, and (auto) insurance to own a car, in US you need neither for to use or own a gun.
     
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  3. R1D2 many leagues under the sea. Valued Senior Member

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    I think S/he meant the Remington model 750 semi auto. Comes with a 4 round clip. You add 1 in the chamber then put on the clip. You have 5 rounds. My friend had one. He only used the 4 clip without the chambered round for hunting. In my state you may hunt with one in the chamber and a 4 round clip, in the rifle maximum. A 10 round clip I could agree with being illegal. Except I had a 22 that loaded 10 in the clip and one in the chamber. Great for squirrel hunting. And those 30 round military magazines are easy to come by. The AR used in Connecticut was not converted, it was semi auto. And I hope no one here has to have the definition of semi auto and full auto given here. If so look it up. I will say those that have military grade weapons here most states require a strict permit. And those weapons are expensive. And if caught with out proper permits you may not like what's done. Now I will say that maybe rifles and shotguns and such should require back ground checks here like they do for pistols. And make that person wait 7-10 days like they do for pistols as well.
     
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  5. R1D2 many leagues under the sea. Valued Senior Member

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    There is a hunters safety course. And there are places you can take a class to learn about a weapon before you buy it. And there is military that helps teach you about weapons. And there are concealed weapons courses. And side arm carry courses. Hunting licenses. Permits for certain weapons as well.
     
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  7. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Well then the 750 should not be legal, either that or the magazine is built in and has to be loaded to capacity manually from above. A hunter does not need detachable magazines: he's going to have plenty of time between finding one prey and another to load his gun, a psycho killer though can't kill more children during the time he has to load round after round into a fix magazine.

    I think checking all gun purchasers backgrounds and psychology is a must, waiting periods to do the checking and registration as well. Heckmandatory gun training and insurance too, we can get around the 2nd amendment by giving out steep fines for lacking training and insurance rather then taking away the guns. Insurance companies are likely not going to charge as much for hunting rifles and shot guns as handguns, and gun insurance might cover you for accidental self injuries that health insurance companies might drop you for.

    These are not mandatory under federal law.
     
  8. pjdude1219 screw watergate i want to know about zaragate Valued Senior Member

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    quick fyi people you'd probably lower the dead and wounded if you required weapons to be full auto rather than semi-automatic. automatic weapons espeacially assualt rifles are inaccurate as all hell. that why the military uses them for suppression and not actual killing. even with a gun like the m-16 known for it low recoil it becomes net to impossible to hit an aimed target with full auto. for killing large groups of people quickly you'd want a semi automatic for the accuracy. yes if this was the case a larger percentage of the people hit would die but over all the casuality numbers would more than likely go down.



    also just for the people who didn't think the US was sane to begin with. it is in fact legal to own a minigun in the states provided they were manufactured prior to a certain date. there are only like 30 or 40 that quailify but they are out there. also flamethrowers are legal in some areas.
     
  9. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    First off: most full auto guns can be set to semi-auto with a flick of a usually ambidextrous switch on the grip, burst fire as also a third option. Second if you have a pile of children just meters away from you full auto would get the job done faster then semi-auto, not need for accuracy. Finally, you can watch many a youtube videos of people drilling human size target at 15-50 m, so clearly it accurate enough to turn someone into Swiss cheese without wasting bullets (other then the fact the person was dead already with a quarter of the bullets you put in him, the other bullets are the definition of "over kill") in an urban terror situation
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  10. kwhilborn Banned Banned

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    @ R1D2,
    So do people surrender their weapons at a certain age, or are sanity tests required every ten years.

    I have no problem with stringent permits for people allowed firearms although I maintain that magazines are unnecessary for hunting. Even bolt action rifles that require you to perform an action between shots to lose the casing, and load the rifle, allow it to load too quickly in my opinion for civilian use.

    This recent mass shooting was done with a stolen rifle from my understanding.

    Q) How do you grant permits to a thief?
    A) You Do Not. They just take what they want and then have a lot of firepower.

    If you can think of a foolproof system for keeping rifles from lunatics then present it. Here is a few.
    a) Have guns require fingerprints similar to the 007 gun.
    b) Have gun storage at a government facility and permit holders can sign out their weapons.
    (so many hunters just store everything at their hunting cottage unattended half the year.)
    c) Design home rifles for1 shot with a complicated loading procedure. (Muskets kept homes safe).
    d) have tiny GPS broadcasters built into each weapon and if the weapon deviates from storage area or registered hunting plan the police investigate.
    (Hikers in large parks often must file their routes for emergency reasons. Similar thing here)
    e) Have rifles require a code to operate that is granted by a government office via cellphone, that must be renewwed monthly.
    f) a rifle case that destroys vital parts of the rifle if the wrong combination or force is used to open it.

    There is 6 ideas off the top of my head that would allow people to have their heavy duty firearms, but the technology does not exist yet for several of them. I am at least trying to think of ways to help sportsmen keep their weapons, but your country has some serious weapon issues.

    It is not the people with permits doing the mass killings (unsure). It is people who are getting rifles illegally.

    If someone breaks into my home there is a good chance they don't have a firearm because I live in Canada, and could probably chase them off with a bat. In America the odds of a home invader being unarmed are a lot worse.

    @ kittamaru,

    Cars are not designed to kill people and can be a necessity for some. Military rifles are designed to kill humans. They are very quick to reload and can kill at a distance of a mile if such a shot was accurate.

    Most people can live their lives happily without ever seeing a rifle/handgun.

    Most people need cars or at least buses for transportation. Many would die without vehicles for living.

    I suppose however that sanity testing would also be prudent, and when you must submit to sanity testing for your drivers license in 10 years remember the idea came from you.

    I did not expect you to write something so blatantly lacking in common sense. It is nowhere near a fair comparison.
    Cars vs rifles? Maybe we should ban water because people drown. This makes as much sense.
     
  11. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    [video=youtube;q1n1kT_8vKE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1n1kT_8vKE]An RFID in a ring on your finger could be used to open a safe or unlock a gun automatically[/video]

    You were saying?
     
  12. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    And that stops domestic violence from escalating to a shooting or this women's son shooting her in her bed and stealing the guns how?
     
  13. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not a gun advocate, I would love to see guns outlawed in the USA, its just not likely to happen any time this century! There are many realistic measures like required gun locks, that would reduce, not stop, gun injuries and fatalities, that we could see sometime soon. In theory if she locked her guns up and did not tell her son how to access them, she would be alive, 6 other adults would still be alive and 20 children would still be alive.
     
  14. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    or he would have hit her on the head and stolen her RF tag off her wrist and got her guns and killing continues as happened. Or if hes bigger than her he could have dragged her to the cupboard and forced her to unlock it. That's not secure
     
  15. Bells Staff Member

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  16. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    actually I find the rate of Australian guns disturbing though i wonder if that includes those target pistols which really can only be used for competition shooting, paint ball guns (which are regulated here) etc

    we should be much closer to that 54 of the UK
     
  17. Stoniphi obscurely fossiliferous Valued Senior Member

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    Just a couple of points I haven't seen referenced here yet:

    The US ATF is forbidden to release the statistics it has gathered on guns and gun related problems due to being shackled by congress under pressure from the NRA.

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    What about freeing the information?

    A fellow in Canada was in the outhouse last year when a black bear grabbed his pants and pulled him out preparatory to eating him. His companion heard his screams from inside the house proper, grabbed a pistol, ran out and shot the bear several times, rescuing his friend. There are a lot of other stories like that out there too. (My dad was American and my mom was Canadian. There is no need here for arrogance. There are plenty of firearms in Canada too.)

    The US has closed a bunch of mental institutions in the last few decades leaving seriously mentally ill persons to wander around doing whatever they wish, including killing a bunch of other people. Perhaps it is time to reopen some of those insane asylums because...some people ARE insane and need to be kept confined so as to minimize their ability to harm themselves or to kill other people.

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  18. R1D2 many leagues under the sea. Valued Senior Member

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    Can't argue with stubbornness. Can't change a mind that refuses to change. No reason to keep insinuating a 180 change. If someone wants a weapon someone will get it. There is the black market, gangs, cartels, robbery. Best way to prevent a theft of firearms is to lock them in a safe. Use the gun locks given and sold. Secure them.
    We have a right to have them. And if a country or even the US ever attacked the people. Then I would hope to have A or my weapon. Not have it locked at a local Police Station or something.
    Background checks for rifles and other "long guns" are different then background checks for pistols. That is what needs to change.
     
  19. kwhilborn Banned Banned

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    @ Stonephi,
    Yes. I am sure there are firearms here. I have never seen a handgun on the street in my life or even a registered pistol for that matter. I think it is funny we even rate a comparison, but feel free. We do have gangs, and they are getting guns, and we know from where.
     
  20. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    The chances of his killing spree occurring would have been reduced, for example if it was a combo lock, or the key was hidden. You have to agree that with more regulations the probability these events happen would reduce. Of course the chances would go down the most by making guns illegal and removing them from circulation, but realistically that not going to happen in the USA.
     
  21. Bells Staff Member

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    22,709
    To be allowed to drive a car, even at 60 MPH, you have to do a certain amount of hours of lessons, sit and pass numerous tests, you have to provide a range of ID's, social security number and a range of other information. And this is just to get the license.

    Once you have obtained your driver's license, the police can stop you and check your license and run a check on you, they can stop you and check your car, check to see if you are drunk or stoned and if you are, they can arrest you.

    To purchase a gun in the US, one can simply attend a gun show and provide one piece of photo ID and that's that.. You can walk out with a semi-automatic weapon, no questions asked.

    And it is absolutely legal.

    Adam Lanza's mother believed the world was going to end so she was paranoid and stockpiled food, water and an arsenal of weapons in her home.

    No one asked or check on her psychological state and if they did, apparently being paranoid does not warrant extra scrutiny before allowing her to purchase her weapons.

    No one also thought or sought to ask or question the safety of those weapons knowing she had a mentally ill child in the house.. In fact, she even took her son's shooting, and no one thought to ask her why she would take a mentally ill boy shooting.

    So I have to ask you Kittamaru..

    Why do people (average citizens) in the US need semi-automatic weapons?
     
  22. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    If they continue to remain available (NRA), then proper psychological screening needs to be mandatory.

    Then again, it's still easy to get them illegally. That argument gets punched for legalizing drugs. Is there a reason not to advance it here?
     
  23. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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    A ban on semi-autos wouldn't make defending yourself from an oppressive government impossible, but it would be much more difficult.
     

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