Some facts about guns in the US

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by James R, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

    Even if you do not buy Fraggles argument about the next war will be fought in cyberspace, how does any amount or types of guns protect you from the US military? It will not and never could!
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  3. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Just Another Day in These United States

    Just Another Day in These United States

    "Her shirt was bloody, and you could see through a piece of gauze that she had a hole in her chest above the heart. Her eyes were wide open in a blank stare, like she was in shock. I'll never forget that look."

    —Justin Latourrette

    Mike Clary explains the latest bad news celebration of freedom:

    Late Saturday afternoon, Justin Latourrette noticed that the two young children of his new neighbors were out in the driveway washing a family car.

    "I thought it was strange," said Latourrette, 29. "They didn't seem to have any supervision."

    What happened about an hour later was even stranger: "A loud boom," said Latourrette; police confirmed it was a gunshot.

    According to the Broward Sheriff's Office, the 13-year-old boy shot his 6-year-old sister inside their residence in the 5900 block of Northeast Second Terrace just before 7 p.m.

    "The siblings had been home alone when the teen found the handgun," Sheriff's Office spokeswoman Dani Moschella said in a news release.

    The girl was taken to Broward Health Medical Center, where she was listed Saturday in critical but stable condition. Moschella said the shooting appeared to be accidental and remained under investigation.

    Clary also notes that the Children's Defense Fund explains that a third of households with minor children contain a gun, forty percent of gun households with minor children present store the weapons insecurely, and that twenty-two percent of children in gun households surveyed report having handled the firearms without their parents' knowledge.

    But, hey, this isn't a recipe for disaster, right? It's freedom.


    Clary, Mike. "13-Year-Old Florida Boy Shoots 6-Year-Old Sister In Chest". The Sun Sentinel. May 6, 2013. May 6, 2013.
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Because Guns Don't Kill People

    Because Guns Don't Kill People

    It just went off. Accidentally, you know?

    A Murray State University student died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head early Sunday morning, according to Calloway County Coroner Rick Harris ....

    .... MSU Associate Vice President for Student Affairs Mike Young said Law was a member of Alpha Sigma Phi, but did not live at the house. He said the gun went off accidentally when Law was showing it to a friend who lived at the house.

    Young said Law had served three tours of duty in Afghanistan as an Army Ranger before joining Alpha Sigma Phi in the fall of 2012. He said Law was originally from Portland, N.Y. and did his basic training at Fort Benning in Cusetta, Ga. outside Columbus before coming to MSU by way of Radcliff right outside Elizabethtown. Law’s family is stationed at Fort Knox, Young said.

    “He was a nice, young man who was full of life and had lots of spirit about him,” Young said. “He was very polite. It’s just a tragedy that his life was cut short, and he’ll be missed by his fraternity brothers and his family and everyone who loved him.”


    If guns don't kill people, then why do they go off accidentally?

    That is to say, guns don't kill people, but nobody wants to admit that one of our "best and brightest" went and shot himself by mistake?

    The gun just went off? He survived three tours in Afghanistan, and the gun just went off accidentally? Or, maybe, he survived three tours in Afghanistan only to kill himself like a dumbass?

    Though it's probably true: No reasonable gun control would have saved this one.


    Teague, Hawkins. "MSU student dies after being shot". Murray Ledger & Times. May 7, 2013. May 7, 2013.
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    The Obvious Question

    Bottom Line: What the Hell?

    I mean, come on. What in the name of ... well, choose your idol, I guess. Alice said, "Name your god and bleed the freak."

    Houston police are still trying to sort out how a 5-year-old boy got his hands on a rifle and shot his 7-year-old brother Tuesday night on the northeast side ....

    .... "They were non-life threatening. It was one bullet hole that went through his lower back," said Sgt. Ryan Gardiner with the Houston Police Department.

    Police tell us the mother had stepped away from the children right after bath time when the shooting happened, and they are questioning the parents about where the weapon was and how the child gained access to it.

    CPS tells us the 5-year-old boy has been sent to stay with his uncle, and police say parents have to take reasonable precautions when guns are in the home.

    "If you have weapons—guns, knives, anything that a child can hurt themselves with or hurt someone else—the parents secure them, put them in a place where a child can't get to them. If your children are older, perhaps training for them to understand what a gun is," said Gwen Carter with CPS.


    • • •​

    Meanwhile, Just a Short Drive Down I-45 ....

    Santa Fe, Texas is a town of just over twelve thousand, and depending on traffic it should take somewhere between thirty minutes and four days to drive from northeast Houston to the community where this happened:

    A 14-year-old boy is in the hospital, and his mother could wind up facing charges after he was shot in the leg by an older friend who lives at their home ....

    .... Police say video showed Pete Jesse Rodriguez, 24, was playing with a gun and pointed it directly at the teen. As he pointed the weapon, police say the teen moved and Rodriguez tracked him with the pistol, eventually pulling the trigger. The victim was shot once in the upper left thigh with a high caliber bullet. The teen lay on the floor for several minutes before getting up.

    According to police, it was only after looking up gunshots on Web MD that the teen and his mother decided to drive him to the hospital. After initial treatment at Mainland Center, the victim was transported to Hermann Hospital where he remains in stable condition.


    Um ... I don't know what goes here. It's a gunshot wound?

    WebMD? That would be hilarious, except it isn't funny.


    Rivas, Elissa. "Boy, 7, shot by younger brother, 5, in northeast Houston". KTRK-TV. May 8, 2013. May 8, 2013.

    KTRK-TV. "Boy, 14, reportedly shot by friend playing with gun in Santa Fe". May 8, 2013. May 8, 2013.
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Freedom Calls

    Oh, Florida ....

    Just because I need to put the statement out there every once in a while: Anyone is a responsible gun owner until he isn't.

    I mean, you know ... just like so much real evil in society is symptomatic and even accidental, like, Everyone is a good person until he isn't.

    Bay News 9 echoes a refrain we might weary of hearing:

    The 29-year-old uncle of a boy who apparently found a handgun and shot himself is facing charges.

    According to the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office, the child, Jadarrius Speights, 3, was taken to Florida Hospital just after 7 p.m. Tuesday. He died there.

    Detectives have charged Jeffrey Walker with culpable negligence, a third-degree felony.

    Detectives say Walker shared a bedroom with the child and had left the 9 mm handgun unsecured in a backpack. The shooting happened at the Avesta Apartments on the 13000 block of North 22nd Street. The boy's parents were in the next room when the shooting happened.

    Walker left the room, and it's believed the boy got the gun out of the backpack and accidentally shot himself, according to deputies.

    Deputies say Walker, who has a concealed weapons permit, could face five years in prison. Walker bonded out of jail on Wednesday and has a first appearance scheduled for Thursday.

    Detectives are trying to determine whether the boy's parents knew Walker had a gun.

    Freedom calls, and would like to thank the late Jadarrius Speights for his most magnanimous sacrifice.


    Bay News 9. "Uncle bonds out of jail, facing charges in toddler's death". May 8, 2013. May 8, 2013.
  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Icons of Freedom

    Responsible Gun Ownership, Texas Style

    Corsicana, Texas, is a small city of twenty-four thousand located ... well, just off I-45, a short run southeast of Waxahachie. And, well, it ain't good news comin' up from Corsicana:

    Police say a 2-year-old boy has died after accidentally shooting himself in the head at a North Texas home while his father was nearby ....

    .... Bratton says the boy apparently found a handgun in a bedroom. The child's 35-year-old father was in the walk-in closet of the bedroom at the time of the shooting.

    No charges were immediately filed. Child Protective Services and prosecutors have been informed of the death.

    Maybe instead of counting the dead, we should be more cheerful, and tally up the Icons of Freedom.


    My San Antonio. "Boy, 2, dies after shooting self at Corsicana home". May 9, 2013. May 9, 2013.
  10. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Today's Celebration of Liberty

    Today's Celebration of Liberty

    WPVI in Philadelphia is reporting that a twelve year-old boy was shot in the face this morning by an eleven year-old classmate:

    The bullet wounded the child in the nasal area, but fortunately seems to have avoided hitting his brain.

    The 12-year-old was bleeding profusely from the face, a witness told Action News, but was conscious and standing when medical help arrived.

    The Camden County Prosecutor's Office said an 11-year-old fired the weapon, but the circumstances remain under investigation.

    "It appears we had an 11-year-old accidentally shoot a 12-year-old, his friend, in the face. The 12-year-old was rushed to Cooper University Hospital, and it appears child was stabilized. We have the 11-year-old and his parents fully cooperative trying to get to bottom of what happened," Chief Scott Thomson ....

    .... "At the heart of what occurred is the fact that a juvenile had access to a firearm," said Dan Keashen.
    A 19-year-old relative of the victim was in the apartment with the boys when the shooting occurred.

    Police are working to figure out who owns the gun. There are laws in New Jersey that require gun owners to keep guns safe from children, by either keeping it in a safe place or keeping it locked.

    So far, the case seems to reinforce the responsible gun owners' argument against firearms safety legislation. After all, why pass laws if people aren't going to follow them?

    Tonight let us raise a glass to the wounded twelve year-old, and celebrate the sacrifice he has made for our freedom.


    Rawlins, John. "12-year-old shot by 11-year-old in Camden". WPVI. May 10, 2013. May 10, 2013.
  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    This Story Stinks ....

    Probation for Pennsylvania Idiot

    I'm not sure where to begin. This would be hilarious, except it's not funny. And it serves as a reminder that truth is stranger than fiction.

    A Pennsylvania man who shot his young cousin in the shoulder after confusing her for a skunk will get probation.

    Thomas Grant, 24, pleaded no contest to misdemeanor charges of assault and reckless endangerment on Monday. He also admitted shooting his 9-year-old cousin at a Halloween party on Oct. 20, 2012.

    Grant said he thought the girl, who was wearing a black costume with a white tail, was a skunk, WPXI-TV reported ....

    .... The incident occurred during a hide-and-seek game at a Halloween party. The victim, who was in a black costume with a white feather or tassel on her hat, was lying face down and motionless when Grant shot her, thinking she was a skunk.

    Grant's mother later told officers that she had seen a skunk earlier in the event and asked him to shoot it.


    Really, if you handed in that script, your script editor would reject it and, if you're lucky, never mention it to the director or producer.

    Still, though, try to imagine the scene in your mind. How would you write it? How would you film it? What would you expect a moviegoing audience to think?

    It certainly wouldn't work in a drama. Not a roco. What sort of straight-to-video farce would it be?

    It's not something that he dreamed would ever happen," Police Chief Ronald Leindecker explained of Mr. Grant.

    Well, yeah. Duh. But how many people are "responsible gun owners" until they're not, and someone has been shot?

    To wit: Perhaps the time when costumed children are playing hide and seek outside just isn't the best time for skunk hunting.

    I know, I know. I shouldn't say such things, since I'm not a gun owner. But, you know, it really does seem self-evident, so if I'm wrong, I would greatly appreciate an explanation, so I can understand why.


    Moye, David. "Thomas Grant Shoots Cousin Dressed As Skunk, Gets Probation". The Huffington Post. May 8, 2013. May 11, 2013.
  12. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Sacrificial Saturday

    Sacrificial Saturday

    The weekend saw yet another sacrifice to the Glorified G. Carla Wade brings the news:

    Police said the boy's 8-year-old friend found a 22-caliber rifle in a room where they were playing. The older boy pointed the gun at his younger friend and accidentally shot him. The 5-year-old's grandparents and a 16-year-old relative were also in the home. Police said the boy's parents also live at the same residence but were at work at the time of the shooting.
    Denton Police spokesman Orlando Hinojosa said the shooting was being investigated as an accident. The child was in critical condition at Children's Medical Center in Dallas Saturday evening.

    The young man is in critical condition at Children's MC in Dallas; police are regarding the incident as an accidental shooting.

    There is a certain silver lining to be found, though:

    Just after 11:30 a.m. Saturday, an urgent 911 call was made after a 5-year-old boy had been shot in the head. News of the shooting spread quickly in a neighborhood where many people have children of about the same age.
    "It's devastating. You just always hope that it never happens and when it does, it just kind of makes you want to keep your kids close," said Darien Jones who lives on the same street ....

    .... Jones' son is the same age as the boy police say fired the weapon, just 8 years old. Donovan Jones was playing basketball in the driveway. A reporter asked him if he knew what to do if he found a gun. He gave an answer his father was proud of.

    "I would just leave it there and walk away and come home and tell my parents about it," said Donovan.

    And police spokesman Orlando Hinojosa took the opportunity to remind that "education is very very important especially with firearms". Keep guns locked up, he said, teach your children well, and pray the message gets through.

    I tend to think begging God to handle it is probably the least effective on that list, but I won't begrudge Texans reminding children that guns are dangerous.

    Tonight, please raise a glass, or, if you are so inclined, bow your head in a prayer of thanksgiving for the latest five year-old child to be offered up to the almighty Glorified G. We appreciate, young sir, your sacrifice in the name of freedom.


    Wade, Carla. "5-year-old Texas boy hospitalized after being accidentally shot in the head". WFAA. May 13, 2013. May 13, 2013.
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Freedom: The Noblest Toll

    Sacrifice: Rocky Mountain Edition

    Alan Gathright of KMGH television explain the strange tragedy in Federal Heights, Colorado:

    Witnesses tell police a Federal Heights woman was killed when the new assault rifle she was showing to friends accidentally fired on Tuesday night

    Witnesses and the husband told police the group had been drinking in the garage of the couple's home at 10024 Elliot St. when 22-year-old Anastasia Adair, a new gun enthusiast, went upstairs to a bedroom to get her recently purchased assault rifle.

    Anastasia was walking back down the stairs into the garage when she reached out to hand the rifle to her husband, Shane Adair, who was below her on the stairs. The gun fired, striking her in the head, two witnesses and the husband told police.

    Shane Adair told police he's not sure if he touched the gun as his wife reached out to hand it to him, Federal Heights Police Lt. Gary Toldness said. The gun fired a second time as the wounded woman fell forward on the stairs and her husband caught her in his arms, but that shot didn't hit anyone, police said.

    I hope she at least had time to recognize that she was dying for the noble cause of freedom.


    Gathright, Alan. "Witnesses: Anastasia Adair was handing assault rifle to husband when it fired, striking her in head". KMGH. May 16, 2013. May 18, 2013.
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    The conclusion does not follow. The benefits of guns in self defense - even their direct and overt employments, a very small minority of such benefits - are not measured in casualties, and comparing death rates tells us almost nothing about them. It is badly confused reasoning. You can't even begin to count "legitimate instances" of self defense by counting dead people, let alone measure a general status of defended person and hearth and home.

    Example: burglaries of occupied dwellings, rate of.

    Don't be ridiculous. That's conservatism.

    The mystical appeal to transcendence of current degradations physical and spiritual, the borderline psychotic appeal to revolt and overthrow and make new the world by cleansing it of the foulness currently oppressing and impoverishing it, the massive crowd manipulating incitements to destroy the oppressors and free the naturally superior Aryan for their proper role, to join in victory over the subhuman and dirty and sickly and gain freedom from existing misery with one's clean and healthy and delivered brothers in arms, is not in the slightest a movement to keep things just as they are.
    Every political movement that espouses or works toward the dominance of society and government by a capitalist corporate military/industrial elite established by force and legitimizing its authority by mystical appeal to myth, is fascistic to that extent, and fascism itself if that is its extent. W's personal ideology and intellectual shortcoming is irrelevant to the nature of his governance - just thank the gods the man was as incapable as he proved to be.

    Once again: tyranny is launched by death squads, Kristallnachts, Klans, gangs, rogue National Guards or paramilitary police, and the like. The supposed role of the personal firearm in combating governmental tyranny is not in open military conflict with a standing industrial army.

    btw, about the prospects for banning guns in the US: the single most frequently purchased weapon in the US is some version of the AR-15, a semiautomatic rifle. And the central component of that weapon - its defining feature, the box the trigger mechanism and magazine and all the rest fit to - is the first thing that kid who just printed a plastic handgun printed. With one of those in hand, one can easily build the rest of the weapon from parts available by mail without restriction. And tens of thousands of people have done that already - built their own AR-15 from parts.

    Good luck banning that without imposing rigid authoritarian control.
  15. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Has anyone ever wondered that guns in america might now serve a very different yet insidious purpose? That maybe guns in the states are sold to gullible people in mass who are scared into buy and hording these weapons in a futile belief that they will defend them from the goverment's advance military or from zombies, revolting negros, etc, etc? And that these guns are an insidious way to get the poor and stupid to off themselves (and others that are statistically like them) so that the rich need to pay less taxation to welfare? Its a win-win-win for the gun sellers, they make money off of peoples stupidity, those people kill themselves off meaning less taxation, and all the while the sellers can claim to be protecting freedom and liberty.
  16. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    In the Name of the Glorified G

    Ain't No Sacrifice ...
    ... like a child sacrifice

    In the Name of the Glorified G:

    A 2-year-old boy was accidentally shot when the toddler found an unsecured handgun at his residence on Spring Valley Road, just outside the Asheboro city limits, Saturday afternoon just before 2 p.m ....

    .... Reynolds said the family — mom, dad and three older siblings — were at home at the time. The child saw the handgun in the parents' bedroom and put it in his mouth, where it went off.


    Let us pray, and give thanks to the Glorified G, that it will so graciously allow this young one to live as a testament to its benevolence.


    Anderson, Mary. "Child accidentally shot when he finds gun". The Courier-Tribune. May 18, 2013. May 19, 2013.
  17. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    So are there laws that severely punish someone for having an "unsecured" gun? Ok ok they really WANT there guns, no background checks, can we at least fine them for not having gun care training?
  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    The jail and medical stuff costs more than the welfare savings - not that the rich are paying it anyway.

    There are all kinds of reasonable laws and regulations one could imagine establishing without infringing on anyone's right to keep and bear arms;

    In a different world,

    maybe in fifty years, after the wingnut gun lovers and the nannystate gun haters, the currently polarized by a black President and the redneck shadow of the Klan, have died off.

    Meanwhile, it isn't worth it. Gun politics have done in more good politicians, done more damage to US governance, than abortion and gay marriage put together.
  19. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    ecxept for the most part the nanny state gun haters as you present them don't exist.
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    For the life of me I cannot see how one can leap to the conclusion that "registration" impedes the right to bear arms. On the contrary, the clause identifies a "well regulated" militia. In case anyone who confuses militia with military (which would be distinct from citizenry).

    Wiki states that militia may consist of;
    Therefore, regulating by registration is perfectly constitutional, if not a expressly stated in BOR.
  21. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    If you can't see them, you're inside looking out. They're nothing if not obvious, from the outside.

    It doesn't. The problem comes from the paranoia of the wingnut crowd, who see registration as the key step in an evil government confiscation of their precious weaponry.

    One reason they think that, is officials and others promoting registration in public have explicitly mentioned that as a benefit of registration.

    Another reason is that confiscation of weaponry, as in the aftermath of Katrina, has been done and threatened in ways obviously abetted by registration.

    It's like a hypochondriac who actually does have a heart murmur and a family history of brain cancer.
  22. KitemanSA Registered Senior Member

    Iceaura, you and I have disagreed on a number of things, but this is a truly good point. If'n you don't mind (and even if'n you do) I'm going to steal this meme.
  23. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    only if your nuts or looking to have your viewpoint confirmed. for a rational reasonable person no they don't exist.

    see you your self admit their not being rational yet you still feel the conceit to push this idea that their are hordes of people that want to "take our guns".

    Most people are fairly rational on the the gun control they desire and here you are parrotting a bunch of nutter fantasies. there are people out there that want to get rid of all guns but most don't and trying to paint most gun cintrol that way as well as repeating the falsehoods of the gun lobby on the statistics and jurisprudence.

    and yes some people have talked about confiscated weapons from people who have shown to be irresponsible with them but no is talking about whole sale taking away guns.

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