Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by alex sam, Jul 8, 2010.
The simple answer would be free will has nothing to do with absolute freedom.
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OK, I understand I don't get to point my hand at the skies, yell, up..up..and..Away! and get to fly away Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
However, that aside, if every single movement of every atom and ion, water molecule, protein-fold, blood cell, action potential along each neuron, etc... ALL is predestined (and therefor MUST) occur - I'm basically a fancy machine with no freewill of my own. None.
Life is like watching a movie - only we're the CGI characters INSIDE the movie - one that God wrote, created and is now watching. Rewind, fast forward, whatever you won't be able to change your part in the Great Movie nor change anything at all (including you can't fly, but also you can't choose do ANYTHING DIFFERENT AT ALL).
If we can't do anything other than what is predestined - we don't have a choice in the matter. There is no freewill.
Interestingly, the brain actually thinks thoughts (via action potentials) BEFORE we are conscious of them. That is, it may be our "conscious" decision may be only accepting what our "brain" decided a few hundredths of a millisecond earlier. We "feel" like we made a choice, but, perhaps we didn't. Choice (even with The Gods) may be an illusion. Armed with this information, it seems we may be more machine like than we thought anyway.`
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My beliefs: I think Buddhists are misguided. They worship a statue. They will fry in Hell for eternity according to the Bible. Practically everyone has the opportunity to accept Jesus Christ. Deny Him=go to Hell. Accept Him=go to Heaven. It really is that simple. If you don't care where you go for eternity then worship whoever you want. I do not care.
Why don't you see the other side of it that is that everything that will ever happen with us creations has to be predestined to exist because without being predestined we cannot exist so even if one exists indefinitely like in the afterlife it still has to be predestined.
I'm reasonably sure you think there's some sort of logic in the above sentence, but it's far from apparent.
You really don't know very much, do you? Buddhists don't "worship" the statue of Buddha any more than you "worship" the cross dangling around your neck. It is a symbol, a reminder of what they believe in. And they don't even really "worship" Buddha. They respect him, they're grateful to him, they pass his teachings on to others; but he was just a man, not a god.
Buddhism, at least the basic kind, is not a religion. It has no gods. It's just a bunch of really great ideas. Many religious people, including Christians and Jews, follow the teachings of Buddha because they do not conflict with their religions.
You have so much to learn. You should post less and read more, lest you continue to embarrass yourself.
They don't worship a statue anymore than you worship a cross of wood. According to them, you will be reborn as a lesser animal because you wasted your chance at enlightenment. You will be reborn again and again until you transcend the cycle of birth and death. Practically everyone has the opportunity to meditate and accept the teachings of Buddha. It really is that simple.
Why don't you read from the context of the OP like Michael did.
Existence does NOT imply predestination, let alone "has to be predestined to exist", nor is predestination at all compatible with free will. You can have one OR the other.
Try reading this:
Us created entities have to be predestined to exist because to have a beginning means to be brought into existence or destined into existence. You might have some sort of argument on free will vs predestination but then again omniscience is not like our knowledge since its the knowledge of everything, everything that will ever happen, everything that could ever happen i.e. all possible modalities.
Being "brought it into existence" does not imply or require predestination. We don't "have" to be predestined at all.
In other words you want to redefine "omniscience" since there's no other way out of the paradox.
If something is known to be going to happen then it can't "not happen". Therefore we cannot, ever, choose to "not do it". Therefore we don't have free will.
I didn't suggest any contradictions I've already said here earlier from the Islamic perspective free will has nothing to do with absolute freedom in post #61.
And I didn't say you had. But I DID point out that they exist, as given in the thread I linked to.
So? Who claimed "free will" equated with "absolute freedom" in the first place? You seem to be the only poster that even mentioned "absolute freedom".
Are you erecting strawmen?
Oh yes we do since we have a beginning our lives are in sequences and sequences can be divided in parts and since each of these parts have a beginning they were created i.e. predestined.
That's an unsupported claim.
All you're going on here is belief.
Existence, in and of itself, does not at all imply, or require, predestination. Neither does a sequence.
One has to observe what kind of existence we have and we have a sequential existence. If my claim is unsupported then you must know how to prove infinite regress since that's the only way a sequential existence is not predestined.
Wrong again. You're making suppositions.
What do you have to support this contention?
I've already told you in post #74, you're the one using non-sequitur argument.
Yes. You stated it, and failed to show how this is true.
You're rapidly becoming a waste of time.
Simply because you claim something does not make it correct. Regardless of how many times you repeat it.
There is no reborn in the physical sense. We don't get a second chance to correct our mistakes. We get one shot at life on earth. We can use it to serve Jesus Christ, God, and/or false gods. When we die we go to Heaven or Hell. There is no other place. Why would anyone accept the teachings of Buddha when the Bible says you will spend eternity in Hell if you do. Who would choose that?
Separate names with a comma.