Socialism: Maybe not such a bad idea?

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by Anarcho Union, May 12, 2011.

  1. Anarcho Union No Gods No Masters Registered Senior Member

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    I've lived in the United States my entire life... well the 16 years that make my entire life. Though this is not much expierence, I have set myself out from a young age to watch and soak in the world around me. Since a young child, I have been told that capitalism is the American way, and for the longest time I put my little hand over my little heart and pledged proudly while eating a McDonalds hamburger loving the capitalist upbringing that I was so confortable in. Eventually however, my life began to take a different path. As I grew older the econamy not only got worse, but my single mother and I were just above the poverty level. But with gas prices going up we are now spending $25 a day in gas alone. This has set us well below the poverty line. The events that lead up to this only build my now pasionate hate for capitalist econamics and culture. I am now a flag burning, vegetarian libertarian-socialist (now most commonly known as anarchist) with a personal debt to settle with capitalism. Especialy post-war consumerism of the american 21st centuray. But what really turned me onto socialism (particualry anarcho-communism) was seeing the homeless community and increase if forclosers over the years. American buisness has intrest in kicking people out of there homes, giving banks more control and wealth. We've given capitalism a chance, and even though right wingers and liberals alike seem to be a blindly opposed to the idea, it may be time to start looking for alternative systems. Its CLEAR that the current econamic system (i.e. capitalism) does not work in this day in age, and the only clear alternative is socialism, so why not give it a try? Lets at least talk about it and stop pointing the fingure to every politician who mentions a socialist policy as if were in another red scare.
     
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  3. Anarcho Union No Gods No Masters Registered Senior Member

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    I dont understand where spoiled comes in... especially since the reason...you know what...nevermind...im not waisting my time proving myself to people on the interent. Do you have anything on topic or at all useful to say here?
     
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  5. Anarcho Union No Gods No Masters Registered Senior Member

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    Thats because I do my research <3
     
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  7. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    I'm inclined to think the following:
    Socialism and capitalism are two great tastes that taste great together.

    Some things are better done by private industry, others by communal enterprises. It takes some form of democratic government so that people can argue about which is which and who does what...endlessly. As they will.

    Very untidy solution, but so far a mixed economy seems to produce the best results: that being a happy, healthy, secure population, and a thriving economy.

    FWIW, I figured you were young...we tend to get more nuanced about things as we get older...and more cynical...
    I stopped being an anarcho-syndicalist after being burned very hard a few times by other anarchists, other hipsters, and my first official lover, the Toad.
    Basically I lost my optimism about people's ability to live co-operatively with each other.

    :shrug:
    Your mileage may vary.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2011
  8. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    What chimpkin said. Capitalism and Socialism are not mutually exclusive, as many rabid right wing froth in the mouth types espouse.

    It's perfectly possible to have a free market economy, that takes taxes at a reasonable level to provide essential services. Look at Europe. It works.

    But you are naive if you think anarchy can work. Simply, people will just takes things from you in until you have nothing, unless there is imposed social order. Trust me, enough people are shit to make society fail without imposed order. you gotta remember, that half the population are below average intelligence, and what that actually means.
     
  9. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    it should mean that they end up losing, but that's not what you're saying here. imo anarchy would remove the barriers to true competition. i think you glorify your own intelligence and assume that what you know is so much more important and useful than what other people know, and i think if the elitist bullshit barrier were removed, you'd find that you're really not as awesome as you think you are.

    iow, anarchy may not work for YOU, because it sure would level the playing field.
     
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Almost all stable economies have some level of socialism. What do you think government bailouts to ailing companies are? Capitalism? What do you think the Federal Reserve printing money to bail out government debt is? Capitalism? What principles of Randian economics are involved there?
     
  11. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    exactly. this...

    ...actually happens BECAUSE OF our imposed social order, which is not founded on intelligence or capabilities, but on the premise that at whatever cost, the elite keep their status.
     
  12. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    it makes some people feel good to know that there are other people in the world who have it a lot worse than they do. isn't that horrible?
     
  13. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    No. Anarchy would lead to desolation. We've strived to build civilisations and only advanced to where we are now because of imposed social order, and that requires protection of intellectual property which stimulates innovation and competition.

    Unless you mean competition for survival in the fighting and fucking sense. Well, maybe you'd win the latter, you've done more than your fair share I understand.

    Just how the fuck did you read that into my reply? Please check your ego at the door Lori.

    Again, a pathetic and misguided attempt to have a dig at me.

    Given Mr Anarcho Union is 16 years old, I think he's going to be worse off under Anarchy, when some badass with a gun collection decides to make him a slave. Why you think this involves me at all escapes me.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2011
  14. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Bullshit, I did well at school, and I'm quite comfortable now. I see my lifestlye afforded to me by a meritocracy.

    Maybe you feel you haven't achieved what you deserve. Boo Hoo.
     
  15. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    hey, now i get to call you delusional. a lot of what you "deserve" has been handed to you by people and circumstances that your "meritocracy" had nothing to do with.
     
  16. Lori_7 Go to church? I am the church! Registered Senior Member

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    and an inventory of your "intellectual property" would include a war machine and a bankrupt economy. what a bullshit term. safeguard the intellectual property so the masses can't use it against you. fucking hypocrites, really.

    well, dig returned. but you're right; i will win. after the "intellectually elite" blow themselves and everything around them to bits, i will have a golden opportunity.



    well perhaps it doesn't involve you, but i don't see why a badass with a gun who's fighting for his freedom wouldn't win over a badass with a gun who's trying to enslave him. do you?
     
  17. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Pure capitalism and pure socialism are unsustainable and will eventually lead to a particular societies destruction. You need to have both and they need to be regulated (Denmark is an excellent example of how it works).

    Let me explain why you are poor right now. American government is an organization that is supposed to be for the people. What has unfortunately happened is that corporate entities have taken over government and made custom rules for themselves so most of America's wealth goes to them.

    In other words, the majority of America's wealth is in the hands of a very few people that have effectively gutted America. For you personally, it is important to get a good education as without it you will work in the low paying service industry for the rest of your life.

    If you want to fix the problem in America then you may also consider a career in politics. Your mission is to get every single person out of government whom is not working for the people.
     
  18. John99 Banned Banned

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    Socialism: Maybe not such a bad idea?

    No its a good idea.

    Yay....
     
  19. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    It never ceases to amaze me how thick-headed some people can be.:bugeye:

    The OP can be somewhat excused due to the foolishness of youth - ask him about it again when he's reached his current age TIMES THREE.

    I know of no one who is totally against socialism, as has been said, it fits in very nicely when coupled with capitalism.

    But the idea of anarchy is totally stupid!! The only people who subscribe to it are either very old and demented or very young and have absolutely NO idea about how humans perform in groups.

    Once again, much as already been said, under anarchy you had better be prepared to have a BIG gun and NEVER go to sleep - because the minute you do, someone will come in and take whatever you have. :shrug: (I hope the OP can at least understand that it's far easier to steal than it is to work.)
     
  20. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, capitalism and socialism ARE mutually exclusive. If you're taxing Person A to pay for goods and services for Person B, what you have is no longer capitalism. And, on that note, America isn't a capitalist country.
     
  21. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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    You must have access to every detail of his life to make that accusation.
     
  22. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Nonsense - you really have no idea what you're talking about. Both systems work quite well together and both are clearly present in America.

    You sound like just another younger-than-30 that has no concept whatsoever of economic systems.
     
  23. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Oh really. Which were those then? Just which aspects of my life have I been 'handed'?

    Also, I never said I deserved anything, did I? That's you projecting your world into mine.
     

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