So When Will MAC DIE!!!

Discussion in 'Computer Science & Culture' started by Eggsited, Feb 3, 2004.

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  1. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Remember, the iMac user's manual (for the nosecones, at least) was unofficially three pages long. Remember that "Open box, plug in, go" campaign?

    That's the user's manual. The rest of it tells you stuff about ergonomics to help you avoid back and neck problems, and also carpal-tunnel.

    Macs are designed to be on a network; that's part of it. It's not that they don't want to help you, but Apple can't help you unless you can tell them what's wrong. And that's where the technical information library comes in. Especially with OSX you have to deliberately and with knowledge try to take your system down to the point that you can't get the information you need.

    I mean, here's something I never thought I'd see in the TIL:

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    Article #93367: A Windows XP iTunes window, from Apple's online support.

    Not only do I love not having a whole bunch of manuals around (OS, video card, sound card, game card, &c.), but I love not needing them.

    In being stung by a production issue that embarrassed Apple, a firmware issue that canceled half my RAM, and a changeover to a new operating system that was supposed to embarrass Apple°, it really has been nonetheless that easy. I've never not been able to reach the library, except when the network itself was down.

    In fact, if you consider in one of my earlier postings the tale of the first-generation iMac that blew its monitor in a power surge, that's how the issue was resolved. He popped over to the nearest working computer, hopped into the library, and all that was left was to find someone with a spare monitor. And, as the majority of his friends use PC's, there were plenty sitting around to choose from.

    ° OS changeover - When Steve Jobs debuted OSX, he said it would run on all iMacs. Several months later he apparently had to eat those words. My computer isn't supposed to perform as well as it does, and in the end not nearly as many folks were stung by the changeover as Apple feared; so Jobs offered a decent concession to get the folks with lost iMacs new machines.
     
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  3. Wrong Robot Registered Senior Member

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    hehehe, let's not forget that jobs ripped of Xerox PARC research.

    That's where he got(stole) the idea of the mouse, and the GUI.

    And then in like suit, Bill gates stole it from Steve Jobs.

    Were it not for a minor technicality in some age old contract/agreement, bill gates would have never been allowed to make windows, and likely would have been sued to pennies(as jobs wanted)

    And now for a little anecdotal quote
    "In a world without doors and walls(boundaries), there is no need for gates and windows"

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  5. testify Look, a puppy! Registered Senior Member

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    buffys you obviously have less computer knowledge than a 5 year old if you think it takes an "intimate understanding of software and computers" to keep XP running. If your inability to actually run a stable XP computer is the only reason you think OS X is better then you might want to rethink your reasons for supporting it because I guarantee you, it's certainly not as hard to use as you make it out to be.

    *edit* I guess robot got to that point before me.
     
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  7. buffys Registered Loser Registered Senior Member

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    lol! good point robot! but as i said i was illustrating the difference between what is and isn't a rip-off. The mac xerox rip-off makes the point just as well.

    ahhh ... and testify, I was wondering when this discussion would degrade to insults. These mac vs pc threads always do, why do people get so defensive about this kinda stuff? I think OSX is better than windows because I use both extensively, the evidence is there every day, staring me in the face. In my experience OSX isn't just a bit better it's so far beyond windows they aren't even in the same category. I simply don't believe that anyone who uses both everyday can claim anything different and keep a straight face but that's me. Agree, disagree that's fair enough but relax, I mean we're just talking computers here. It's nothing to burst a blood vessel over.
     
  8. Wrong Robot Registered Senior Member

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    "Inability to run a stable XP computer", when you say it like that it makes it sound like a chore.

    Why should an Operating System be difficult to use in the first place? the whole point of the GUI, the mouse, the mac OS experience is to make it as user friendly as possible without sacrificing capabilities.

    I read an article about this, a windows mogul switching to mac, he found that the biggest stumbling block many windows users face when they encounter OS X is that it's based around intuitiveness. First and foremost the system is designed around intuition.

    I have theorized, that when windows was designed, gates purposefully wanted things to be backwards from the mac OS, so that it wouldn't seem like he was blatantly stealing. Sadly, the inefficient system prevailed, and we are left with something that works once you learn it and are brought up with it, but is a chore to use.

    Not unlilke QWERTY and Dvorak, QWERTY keyboard language was developed to SLOW typists down so that they didn't jam the keys on their typewriters, but it became the norm somewhere along the line. Now Dvorak, the system that is based around what is more natural, users swear by their system, but if you throw a Dvorak keyboard in front of the average user they will blink for a little while then call it stupid.

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    I'm not trying to get anyone to switch or anything, I just think that the hatred toward Apple and OS X is 100% uncalled for and unfounded, and it saddens me that people really need to go out of their way to not only insult my system of choice, but to insult me for choosing it.
     
  9. testify Look, a puppy! Registered Senior Member

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    buffys I wasn't in any way trying to offend you, I was merely trying to point out that running XP does not take the brightest of people. I guess you're kind of insulting yourself by saying you have problems running such a simple OS. Maybe it's the fact that you use OSX everyday that you have drifted from the ease of windows, and expect it to be more like OSX (the type of interfaces).

    I am certainly not "bursting a vessel" I am just showing how your opinion is shit and how my opinion is shit. I use windows more, you use OSX more. I think Windows is superior, you think OSX is superior. Sure you can say that you have major experience on both ends of the spectrum but I would still doubt you, simply because of the way you describe windows as being a "'76 pinto", a "broken OS". You really havn't given any proof to it's brokeness or otherwise. If you're going to start talking trash about something I would hope you would somewhat back it up. So please, do your worst...

    In response to Robot: I wasn't pointing any insults towards you, I was trying to figure out why buffys finds Windows so hard to use. He was putting down my system of choice and is very much uncalled for and unfounded (thus far).
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2004
  10. buffys Registered Loser Registered Senior Member

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    lol, i know you weren't trying to insult me you did insult me, reread your post there's no try involved but I love the fact that you followed your backpedal with another insult, funny stuff!

    perhaps I could have been clearer, windows is hard to use only when compared to using OSX (in the same way using a bicycle is hard work when compared to using a motorcycle but both are easier than walking). I can use windows, I have to everyday at work (in actual hours spent I technically use windows more than OSX). And yes, I was putting your system down and it's called for because my job is just that much more cumbersome and unnecessarily complex because of windows. It's founded because it's based on 8 hrs a day, five days a week experience. I'm not guessing here or making assumptions, I see it every single day ... it's a fact of my life.

    listen this is easy, earlier you said, "Let's just say I havn't had a lot of experience with an Mac OS." It reminds me of people who bash a movie based on the trailer. Spend some time on a mac, then we can talk.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2004
  11. testify Look, a puppy! Registered Senior Member

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    I aim to please!

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    "much more cumbersome"? Carrying a fucking bag is much more cumbersome! You're not showing me anything here. You havn't really told me why OSX is better. Give some examples, that's all I ask. No more of this "it's bulky" and "it's broken" crap.

    Sorry to say, your 8 hours isn't a whole lot. My time racks up to be WAY more per day...7 days a week. It sure doesn't give you grounds to start putting down my chosen system when your only experience with it is in the workplace (by the way may I ask what you are employed in?).


    *side note* You really believe riding a motorcycle is easier than walking?
     
  12. Blindman Valued Senior Member

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    Personally I don’t care which system is better. For me Its about price and range of options. I like bang per buck, and basically Apple will remain a minority while it continues to keep its prices so high.

    PC power.. Dual AMD 64bit with PCIX slots (cant wait for a good ATI 9800 PCIX card or two, or three, or four), 8 RAM slots

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    , Serial IDE, and a 1G FSB, Mmm MMm Mmmmmm.

    Oh, a good 40% cheaper then the Apple G5.

    Pity we have to wait for WinXP64.

    Long live the all mighty Apple, Windows, or whatever. Competition is always good. Keeps them on their toes. And if mac competition is reducing the price of windows based systems, go mac go…
     
  13. CounslerCoffee Registered Senior Member

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    Today, while checking the daily comic strip at dilbert.com, I came accross this:

    Three steps versus seven steps! Bah! Who cares, I'm off to read a Terry Pratchett book (Or something of similar quality).
     
  14. ScrollMaker I Make Scrolls Registered Senior Member

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    That's the instructions for OS 9, which happens to be about five years old if I am correct.
     
  15. daktaklakpak God is irrelevant! Registered Senior Member

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    PC will face another generation leap this year. The PCI-Express will propel PC into a new era. Maybe Apple will have PCI-Express in G6.
     
  16. Vortexx Skull & Bones Spokesman Registered Senior Member

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    Apple has faced the brink of extinction several times, but every time with their last money they brilliantly reinvented themselves and brought out some slick new model that their loyal fanbase would buy.

    Now with the IBM being head of some IBM-AMD-APPLE-LINUX cooperation we are finally going to see some pretty rough competition for the WINTEL conglomerate ?

    Just mentioning how relatively poor the new intel Prescott core performs, we have to wait until 3,6 Ghz before the long pipeline breaks even. Meanwhile AMD has some nice FX models going while they can still do a dieshrink because of their SOI.

    One thing funny about some MAC users, that they insist the world knows they think different, Mac is a ego thing
     
  17. Wrong Robot Registered Senior Member

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    PCI-Express, is that different from PCI-X currently found in the g5?

    if not, what is so special about it? (I've never heard of it before)
     
  18. Wrong Robot Registered Senior Member

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    No. They were heading down the road towards extinction, then they released the iMac which appealed to the entire computing industry, spurred a new generation of PC wannabes, and brought apple back to life. This coincided with Steve Jobs returning to the company, they were never on their last pennies though, they have had a healthy bank account of over $4 billion for a while.

    Motorola(the makers of the g4) were one of the worst things to happen to apple, while the g4 is a great processor, Motorola was inept when it came to manufacturing them, causing apple to be stuck @ 500 mhz. for a long time, and only just passing the Ghz marker last year.

    The g4 is nearly on it's last legs, no one thinks it can be pushed much farther than 1.4 ghz. but I have heard rumors of a new version that will top out at 1.8 or 2.0.

    that aside, IBM, the makers of the g3 and the g5, have their shit together. The g5 is brute force, while it may not spank the PC market, it certainly can assert itself as a powerful computer, one of the most important things about the g5 design, is that there are no significant bottlenecks in the system. There is *so* much bandwidth to go around it's not even funny.

    Rumors have it the next rev. of g5s are about to hit the market, maybe March, the rumors think that they will be topping off at 2.6 ghz. and will likely be all DP models. This might coincide with a new ATi or Nvidia chipset too.

    The g5 is slated to meet and exceed 3.0 ghz shortly there after.

    so IBM is definitely showing some promise, and is really competing head on with AMD and intel.

    AMD has some good projects in the works, but I think intel is losing ground fast, the only thing they have going for them is cheap and 'fast', but they aren't particularly well designed processors, especially when compared to the g5 or some of AMDs offerings.

    the 64 bit intel itanium I think it is, has been stalled again and again, and is costing intel a lot of money and resources.

    An interesting thing about processors

    All three Next-generation Gaming consoles will be using PPC processors.
    the Xbox2 will be using 3 PPC970(g5)
    the PS3 will be using something called the CELL processor system that is some sort of SMP PPC derivative
    The gamecube currently uses a modified g3 processor, and the next gen might be using a g5, though I haven't heard much about it.
     
  19. buffys Registered Loser Registered Senior Member

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    totally true (for some, as you said) I know quite a few mac users that would tatoo a big apple on their chest if tatoos didn't hurt so much. But bigger egos than pc users? not in my experience, at least not among the serious users. In the mac community there are few casual users, because of cost macs are rarely bought on a whim making a higher ratio of geeks compared to pc's community and as we all know computer geeks in general tend to think very highly of themselves.

    But, "Mac is an ego thing"? that's not fair, I definitely love my system as my earlier posts make clear but there isn't a chance in hell I'd have paid the extra cash were it simply for bragging rights.

    There are a lot cheaper ways to pad my ego, the rolled up socks in my underware for example cost 2 dollars and offer a much bigger payoff.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2004
  20. daktaklakpak God is irrelevant! Registered Senior Member

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    PCI-X is a 64-bit overclocked PCI bus. Starting clock speed is from 66MHz up to 533MHz in the future. Theoratical bandwitdth is from 528MB/s up to 4.264GB/s in the future.

    PCI-Express is a new high speed serial bus, formerly known as 3GIO, was originally proposed by Intel as the 3rd generation IO. Data is transfer on a pair of lines, 1 for input and 1 for output. Each line has a starting speed of 256MB/s up to 1GB/s in the future. The current spec allows up to 32 paired lines in one device with theoratical speed reaches 8GB/s in each I/O direction, and up to 32GB/s in the future.

    Note: B/s is Bytes per second, not bits per second.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2004
  21. Wrong Robot Registered Senior Member

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    That's a good point, as buffys' said, all geeks are egotistical.

    Additionally, you can't really expect 3% of the market to act like the rest of the market.

    But again, saying mac users are generally *more* about ego is short-sighted.

    there are still millions of mac users that couldn't care less about macs, they just use them. The mac 'geek' community, sure there is ego there, but again, there is a lot of ego in any geek community really.

    Mac is *not* an acronym though! grr

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  22. Wrong Robot Registered Senior Member

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    Sounds pretty good, I'll bet apple will be using it as soon as possible(they love high bandwidth I/O)

    They did create Firewire after all

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    The current Firewire800 has a theoretical max of 800 MB/sec and the IEEE 1394 spec(firewire) is scalar and is going to top out at at least 3.2 GB/sec in the next year or two
     
  23. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    It should also be noted that the 7-step wallpaper process is extraneous. Choosing and placing the image where you want it is one step. I would imagine that the person who wrote those instructions didn't understand springloaded folders.

    And even then, at a 3-step versus a 4-step process, I would choose the 4-step process because the rest of the computer works.
     
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