So what is the correct protocol for complaining about mod behaviour?

Discussion in 'SF Open Government' started by Dr Lou Natic, Feb 23, 2008.

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  1. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    Is there a way to express dissatisfaction without getting in trouble?
    What do the powers that be suggest?
    Stfu?

    It's not just badass troublemakers complaining any more, it's an escalating epidemic where lots of independent normal people are becoming more and more baffled by increasingly bizarre abuses of power by mods.

    I think it's really immature to just keep silencing and ignoring this building rabble. It's time to step back and entertain the notion there might be a problem.
     
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    I suggest posting a thread in Site Feedback, or contacting the adminstrators by PM.

    In either case, make sure you don't just rant and rave about moderator bias etc. If you see a particular problem, make sure you link to the relevant threads and/or posts where it occurred. Be clear and specific as to what you think the problem with moderation was. Finally, suggest the outcome that you would like to see as a result of your complaint.

    The following approaches will not be likely to be productive:

    * insulting the moderator you have a problem with.
    * following every moderator action with a complaint.
    * complaining primarily on your own behalf, by making excuses for your own actions.
    * complaining that other people did something just as bad as you did, yet weren't moderated. Somebody else being worse than you doesn't excuse your actions. Two wrongs do not make a right.
    * being combative and angry.
    * trolling to try to undermine confidence in the moderators, without being able to back up your claims with specifics.
     
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  5. 15ofthe19 35 year old virgin Registered Senior Member

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    James, with all due respect, if we all took the time to do an exhaustive 60 Minutes style piece on our grievances with the mods, that's all there would be here, and no science. If you can't see the inconsistency in the moderation on this site has reached an all time anti-zenith, then maybe you need to step back and re-evaluate. You've got mods on this site that couldn't pass a fourth grade english test. Fix it, or forget it. It ain't hard to find examples, pard.
     
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  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    159ofthe19:

    As it stands, I see a small group of members who constantly complain about moderators they personally don't like. More often than not, they do not point to particular grievances, but rather express a generalised dissatisfaction - just as you have done here, in fact.

    In the absence of specifics, it is very difficult for administrators to know what action is desired, or even if there is a real case to answer.

    Please give a few specific examples of such inconsistencies (with links to the appropriate threads).

    Let us suppose that this is true. How do you think it affects their moderation of the forums?

    So, find some.
     
  8. Plazma Inferno! Ding Ding Ding Ding Administrator

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    If you're dissatisfied with certain moderator, moderators' behaviour or particular decision, the first and logical step would be to contact the moderator in question.
    Private Message is the preferable option.

    If moderator didn't send respond to member's query in reasonable period of time (24 - 48 hours), then member should contact one of the supermoderators or admins (Stryder, James or me). Or the best thing would be if you add all of us as recipients, so you can be sure that you'll receive at least one respond.
    Again, contacting supermods and admins should be done via Private Message, which should consist of original quote of the PM you (member) sent to moderator in question, and quote of moderator's respond if you're not satisfied with explanation.

    If supermod or admin failed to respond to your request in reasonable period of time (24 hours), then you should open thread in SF Open Government forum, with simple title 'I'm dissatisified with moderator [name]' and with explanation and links in OP.

    Thread shouldn't be made without prior consultations with moderator in question or admin or supermod. Otherwise, it will be closed.

    Thread should be made in SF Open Government forum only, not in Site Feedback (it's forum for technical issues with accounts and forum in general) or any other forum. Otherwise, it will be closed.


    I hope this is helpful.
     
  9. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    This one made me laugh. Why would anyone complain in somebody else's behalf??? Actually, some would, but it is less likely... And if we are not able to EXPLAIN ourselves, the whole discussion is moot....

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    The thing is, if posts disappear without trace, chances are we didn't even see them in the first place <<< can't complain in somebody's else behalf.
     
  10. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Except that I have no idea which one is removing my posts from the Religion and Wealth thread.

    And complaining to the offensive moderator, that is a good joke.... :bugeye:

    I am not a big complainer, until now I only had problem with Tiassa, which I solved by ignoring him, but now others (SAM) started to show dictator attitudes.
     
  11. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    you do realise that was already answered, Sam is the mod in that section (as you would see if you clicked on the section involved and scrolled to the bottom and looked where it says section mods)
     
  12. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Hey, if mods can be lazy, I can be too! Yes, I didn't look. And it isn't a solution in Forums with more than 1 mods...
     
  13. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    again this was answered if you would stop asking your questions across multiple threads

    The mods can see who deleted a thread, if you PM ANY of us we can at the very least point you to the paticular mod you need to talk to
     
  14. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Surprize, surprize, she closed another thread (not to mention deleted completely neutral post) and this is the person whom I supposed to complain? By the way I did PM her, but don't expect any answer. Anyway, I am getting bored with the topic, lesson learnt...
     
  15. Lord Hillyer Banned Banned

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    Apparently the correct protocol depends entirely upon which moderator sees it first - the punishment ranges from locking the thread, banning, or a witty rejoinder. The consistency is the best part of the place.
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    What answer do you expect for this?
     
  17. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Like an explanation why you deleted my posts? That would have been a good explanation for your actions, you could be even right, although I doubt it. For education info, the site's purpose is to create content by allowing discussion. By closing down threads unnecesserily you are depriving Zox income.

    Ask him if you don't believe me....

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    P.S.: Also see my thread on collective punishment, will be enlightening...
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2008
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Since the posts are only soft deleted and are still visible to super moderators and administrators, if there are any gems bringing in the moolah, you can be sure that they will be restored.

    I'll leave it to their judgment.
     
  19. countezero Registered Senior Member

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    Bullshit.

    There have been numerous specific complaints about several moderators, with links. At one point, a thread was even created to moan about one moderator in particular. Nothing was done.

    If the group of complaints is "small," I'd wager that's because people have either given up complaining or been cowed into silence. But as 15 said, it's not particular hard to stick one's head in a forum or two and see the tenor and tone of some of this site's "most respected" members, who also happen to be mods. The fact other mods continue to express befuddlement about the obvious, or dismiss it the result of personal grievances, only adds to the frustration (and realization) that nothing is being done and nothing will ever be done about certain people.

    I have accepted this and moved on, but part of my acceptance is comprised of the realization that this site has different rules for different people, and as such, many of the debates here simply aren't worth the time one expends in them...
     
  20. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    countezero:

    I started a thread quite recently polling the membership as to their treatment by moderators. I asked specifically whether members had been personally treated unfairly by particular moderators.

    The result was that, on average, only one or two people named any given moderator as having treated them unfairly. Moreover, there was no consistent pattern across the moderator group. Individual personality clashes between moderators and one or two members are probably unavoidable. The problem is only serious when large numbers of members all point unanimously at a moderator for being incompetent, biased, unfair or whatever. Otherwise, we can put many complaints down to individual sour grapes about not being allowed to get away with posting material that breaches the site rules.

    If you have a specific complaint about a particular moderator, please feel free to PM Plazma and/or myself and we will look into your issue.
     
  21. countezero Registered Senior Member

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    Why bother?

    Nothing will be done.

    As you have said, this is all about "individual personality clashes," and as such, isn't taken seriously by the powers that be. The fact a moderator might violate the forum rules in some of these "clashes," and in doing so, drive members away doesn't seem to concern.

    Apparently, until some poll you organized shows a certain number of complaints, the matter isn't serious, or am I misreading you when you say "the problem is only serious when large numbers" make it so? One thanks the heavens that crime in the real world isn't treated the same way, for if it were, there would need to be dozens of people killed or mugged before the authorities bothered to start looking to enforce the laws.

    Here's a suggestion, albeit it without the safe backing of a "poll". Try holding moderators to the same rules you hold everyone else. Here's another suggestion. Allow members to put moderators on ignore. If a blocked moderator needs to post something a member needs to see, I'm sure that function can be arranged, but in the interim, there's no reason members should have to suffer the trolling of a certain conspicuous moderator and the juvenile bating and demagoguery of another just because they are moderators.
     
  22. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    I think that's crap, my posts in the divorce because of thread were pivotal in shedding light on a lot of bullshit, I was dismantling a ridiculous premise, one tiassa was part of propogating, and so he quickly completely deleted my posts and then carried on with his garbage like I hadn't just made it clear that what he was implying was a crock of shit.

    If he deleted my posts and then somehow took into consideration what I had said with his following posts, that wouldn't have been so bad, it's the fact he just pretended they never happened so he could carry on being unchallenged.
    They happened to have some bad words in them so he saw an opportunity to just erase the moment in the discussion where he suddenly wasn't right anymore.
    That is a flagrant abuse mod powers, that isn't what they are for, surely, for mods to modify discussions so that they maintain a dominant position in an argument. Get real. He could have deleted the bad words but instead he deleted an argument which opposed his own and then wallowed in a custom made fantasy where he was indisputedly correct.

    That's the moment where a moderator is suddenly off his nut and drunk with power, it's not rocket science, I'm not talking about abstract philosophy here, Tiassa is deleting posts which are contrary to his views. That's obviously not ok.

    I would even argue that moderators should never be able to moderate discussions they are partaking in, even if posts got ridiculously out of hand some other mod should have to do something, once a mod steps into the ring they can't be the referee anymore.
    It should go without saying.

    Tiassa always talks about his mod hat and is flipping it on and off during a discussion he's involved in, that's bullshit, it's like a policemen at a cockfight pulling out his badge and gun whenever his bird starts losing, orchestrating a string of wins for himself and making a shittonne of cash.
    You have a rabble of mexicans complaining about one of your colleague's antics at their sporting events, and just like the corrupt mexican police you're ignoring it and laughing it off, battoning the odd especially persistent complainer in the face.

    And no I can't do anything about it and no one promised a democracy, blah blah blah, yeah ok, all correct, but you all need to get off the morally righteous ivory towers, you'll leave stains on them.
    You have power over us and you're abusing that responsibility, you've opted for the lowly corrupt dictatorship route, which was your perogative, but stop living in a fantasy where you are the good guys and the we are the bad guys.
    You're the bad guys.
    See that little skull and crossbones insignia on your blazers? Yeah, sorry.
    We have dove flags flying over our humble little villages and you have skulls and crossbones on your dark and stormy castles. Your troopers raid our villages and harrass us and shake us down sometimes.
    That's what's going on here.
     
  23. K.FLINT Devil's advocate :D Registered Senior Member

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    mod's

    Mod's are just people.

    People are prone to pride, anger, bias and mistakes. What you may not see is the full interactions between any given person and a particular moderator.

    All people in control will make some happy and others, well.. not so happy.

    I would say that the normal path to make complaints should be followed.

    Also, if you are moved to make any such formal complaint you might want to send a copy to all the administration just to be sure your problem is addressed.

    If you really belive that any one moderator is continually abusive and has not been put in check, then provide proof.

    Do the research. The time it takes to complain over and over can instead be spent looking up posts and proving your point. It seems if it is worth your time to complain it would be worth your time to prove your point.

    After you have become calm, you may see the situation from a different perspective. You may, in your reading find that there is no ONE person to blame. Or at the very least you can provide the needed information to back up your complaints.

    K.F.
     
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