So MTV edited out Eminem being a bitch...

Eminem writes awful music. Fact.

 

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Re: Terribly inefficient

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tiassa, Eminem has never said anything about Jews, he sure as hell isn't racist (the concept is ridiculous when you consider who he hangs with), he's not aniti-gay(even Elton John felt the Media was over blowing everything), and he's not anti-women(he's repeatedly called out deadbeat dads in his songs and always say his songs are a reflection of the craziness in our society). So basically, Moby LIED and was talking out of his ass.

The funny thing is I'm not even a big Eminem fan, but to blast a guy for defending himself is just plain idiotic. What has Eminem done that is so wrong??? He said Britney, N'Sync and the pop music out today is corny, that's all. I guess it's okay for everyone else to say Pop groups suck, but not him...

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Well, as someone quoted his lyrics:

It's a bit of an overstatement on his part. Nobody's ragging on him for being the first to hit his woman or call gay people "faggot" in anger. Rather, everybody's ragging him for keeping it up. The problem was stale when he was in kindergarten.

You'll notice his "defense" in his song is "I'm not the first" and not "I don't do that".

It's a petty excuse.

In the meantime, I would ask anybody to translate, say, the first verse of "White America" (chosen since we have the lyrics at hand). Give us your best opinion. Anyone? Anyone? Or how about that second? I'm not asking for a doctoral dissertation on Eminem, but since people wish to say he's not when his defense is that he's not the first, I'm wondering what their actual take on the lyrics might be.

Here's an interesting article which discusses some of what we're covering in this topic:

I'll leave their sampling of Eminem's lyrics to anyone who wants to present a defense; I'm not particularly trustful of such short exceprts as the author provided, but there you have it. It's a two-page article that includes this jab over Eminem's Grammy performance:

To the other, just to show I'm not that biased, a link in Eminem's defense:

It should also be pointed out that you are correct about anti-Semitism. Moby still thinks he has heard Eminem say anti-Semitic things, but that's apparently it's own issue. However, as Moby noted immediately after his most famous Eminem crack: In any case, even if he's not an anti-Semite, he's still a racist, a homophobe and a misogynist.

Whew! And we were worried about anti-Semitism. I have to admit, since the guy's just a racist, homophobe, and misogynist, I feel a whole lot better.

The thing is that I'm not going to censor it. Not going to tell him he can't say it. But I will use my equivalent right to note the stupidity of maintaining such a figure. I tend to agree with Moby when he says,

I'll even tell you a bit of a sob-story, just because it might help.

Start in, say, eighth grade, the beginning of my heavy metal years. After the expected enchantment of Twisted Sister, it would be a little while before I embraced harder music as a whole. In the end, though, my metal tastes defied conventional wisdom. Metallica? Sure, they're cool, but they're overblown. And one of the things that has marked Metallica in my book over the years is the tendency of their fans to be belligerent idiots. I don't hold the band responsible per se, but I certainly don't want to be part of that movement. Really, when I watched a backwater yokel take a swing at a black kid after saying, "You will die when I say you must die" ("Disposable Heroes", Master of Puppets) I became very attuned to the way music does or does not influence its listeners; bear in mind, also, that this is at the rise of the PMRC.

And this has cost me some in the long run; there are a few experiences I wished I was more open to, but I remember sitting around listening to Ministry fans talk about how intelligent they (the fans) were while spending the other two-thirds of their brainpower seeking beer and pussy. I actually like Ministry from time to time. But I never did get close to the music because getting close to the people who were also close to the music was unpalatable.

And then came the post-metal, post-rap rise of whatever we want to call it, which has resulted in the modern day in Kid Rock. Unfortunately, that blunder is on my generation; we were so happy when Anthrax and Public Enemy finally did their thing that we actually were stupid enough to foresee a brighter future.

Almost visceral to me is the backwater, Oregon meth-rage which came with a lot of that heavy rap. I can remember sitting around with guys claiming to be in gangs (in a town of 30,000, okay) talking about getting "beaten in" and then going out looking for pussy. I never got close to that hard rap movement, the central figures of which are, thankfully, lost to my memory.

People can say what they want about the high art of Eminem's lyrics. But I don't see it in the people who advocate his music. I see the same shitty attitudes, the same self-indulgent horseshit, that I saw nine and ten years ago. I mean, sure, there's something to be said for individual interpretation, but I'm not about to go watch Shoah because it's uplifting. Nor am I going to pretend for the sake of any subculture that I hear the same things they do.

So funny, that, as I mount my self-righteous podium. I find it distasteful when the guy on the barstool next to me says he wants to fuck this or that fourteen year-old girl. Do I blame Eminem? No. But I don't want to be part of that, and at some point that kind of thinking that I recoil from can be dangerous.

So it is possible for me to accept what people say about Eminem's lyrics, but I just don't see it. And I don't think the fans speaking on his behalf are doing him a whole lot of good. It's nice to show support, but I don't find the Eminem menagerie to be very coherent or aware. Just like those past crowds, it is the fans first and foremost that show the lyrical weakness of the "artist". It just seems to me that if Eminem's lyrics really were taken at their alleged high art value, his fans wouldn't be so incoherent, and his defense wouldn't rest on the idea that he's not the first.

Not much, really. Mostly I find his position objectionable the way I find the OCA objectionable, or Donald Wildmon objectionable. The position seems stupid, small-minded, divisive, and anti-progressive. It is his prerogative, but what obligation have I to respect his conclusions as legitimate?

In the end, what I see is this:

• Eminem, in the best interpretation, is a "realist" who criticizes what he sees wrong in society
• Moby criticizes Eminem
• Eminem threatens violence

That's the problem. He's a petty hypocrite at best, and the infamous hatemonger at worst.

I just want to say, "What's the matter, Marshall? Why are you so pissed that someone's being critical? After all, you make a living at it."

And the anti-Semitic bit--while that's Moby's issue as we see, and I trust that he thinks he's heard Slim Shady be anti-Semitic--is well and fair. Who is going to claim factual merit for Eminem's lyrics? The Margot Kidder line, for instance:

I'm sure he didn't mean to say that he hid in the bushes because he was in the middle of a massive drug-related psychiatric breakdown, you know. And I won't even get into the merits and demeits of titty-fucking Bette Midler. As long as you don't have to make sense, it's real easy to rhyme.

But other than that, he's on par with Beavis & Butthead: Bathe her, and bring her to me. Heh-heh.

I keep thinking of this one song from Primal Scream, the title of which escapes me. The chorus is simple: No you don't give a shit that your daughter was raped; you just called her a slut and said that she was to blame. Repeat it a few times; it's catchy.

There are a few witty lines I could stick in here about how that line relates to Eminem, but there is a difference 'twixt the two. In Primal Scream's case, it happens to be social commentary, which is an interesting distinction because so is Eminem. But unlike rappers, when musical lyricists move into such commentary, they don't make it so strictly about themselves.

That's a huge difference. Some lyricists choose to talk about society. Eminem chooses to talk about himself. A friend of mine pointed out earlier today that as far as we know, Eminem has no more hit, raped or otherwise hurt a woman than Johnny Cash did murder Delia. Yet Marshall's lyrical defense is that he's not the first ....

Perhaps what bugs me so much about Eminem is this persistent impression that the self is so important that reality is subordinate to it. Nobody's really going to pretend that by focusing on one's own desires and frustrations so exclusively that the world's going to get any better, are they?

Maybe I should blame parents. While it's not a statistical truism, it seems that of the people I know, the less musical education they have, the more prone they are to like "music" that centers around arrogant lyrical proclamations.

I went to a school of middle-class students and up. It was quite European; one year that I recall, 0.2% of the student body was black; the next year it was 0.6%. Strangely, the majority (four of the six) of black students didn't like rap. However, rap was huge among the white kids, who went from calling everyone "Nigga" to flashing hand-signs to each other in class, to bringing their "posses" onto school grounds, eventually to carrying firearms. I'm not going to blame the rap; I'm going to blame the stupid, stupid kids who listened to it.

But I'm not just going to sit back and say, "Oh, Eminem is making an artistic statement. That's alright, then."

The clear majority of Eminem fans I've known face-to-face do not impress me as intelligent enough to understand an artistic statement.

And now, here's Marshall, threatening people, and relying on this menagerie of fans to keep him afloat in this one.

--Tiassa

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WOW tiassa! I just read your book...er...post and I must say you just don't get it.

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You quoted these lyrics:
"So now I'm catchin the flack from these activists when they raggin
Actin like I'm the first rapper to smack a bitch or say faggot, shit! "

While I don't agree with people saying the word "faggot", do you realize that's a slam guys use to put down other guys as wimpy, and it usually doesn't even have anything to do with gay people. Eminem used it in that manner.

Most of the time he used the word "bitch", he was reffering to his mom and she may fit the bill of one.

Tiassa, you miss the MAJOR point of Eminem's song that his "unitelligent fans" as you put it, understand. Eminem is about PARODY and SATIRE on our current society, most people recognize this...

Let me explain it to you. Eminem plays a character in each of his songs (for example "Stan"). He parodies the ills we see in society today, yes he doesn't hold back his language, but that's why many like his work.

At least you admit he's not an anti-Semite....

Once again, how is Eminem racist????? I have never heard him say a racist thing.

As for being homophobic.....since you don't believe me, here's what Elton John thinks...

John is no stranger to sensitivity, but some might see such sentiment as contrasting somewhat with his ringing endorsement of controversial rapper Eminem, with whom John performed "Stan" at last year's Grammy Awards. Not only does John continue to praise the foul-mouthed superstar, he condemns the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, which vehemently protested Eminem's The Marshall Mathers LP (2000).

"I think they are a bunch of a--holes, sorry guys," John said. "I wouldn't have [worked with him] if he was homophobic, and if he was he wouldn't have asked me."

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1449631/20011005/story.jhtml

Why is Moby allowed to bash Eminem, yet Eminem is wrong to counter.....


All I can say is if you don't understand that Eminem's songs and lyrics are a parody of society, and a commentary of what we see in America today, then you missed the whole point....

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If they are satire and parody than why is his reaction at being booed to threaten with violence? Or is that also just part of the act?

 

Moby was booing him and if I'm correct he said,"Keep booing little girl, I'm not afraid to hit a man with glasses".

Is that statement really that bad? Half the people in this country, say worse things to drivers that tick them off on the roads everyday, than that....

Would you prefer Eminem to have said,"Please Mr. Moby, don't hurt my feelings by booing"?

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Yur veery welcome, ma'am. My pa says to do what the misses say.

...

Please... first, you criticize Eminem and now you stereotype his entire fanbase? Are you trying to make people angry? Because I know someone who excels in that area

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You'd just think that such a clever little scamp would have something wittier to say than 'i'm gonna hit you if you don't quit laughing at me'.

 

i just lost my entire post that i written out, so i have to type it allll over again!! how annoying, but alright here i go again..

you obviously didnt get the song white america, this is basicly what he says in the song: if i would have been black i wouldnt have sold this much, and people wouldnt have nagged so much about my lyrics either, because im not the only one who said 'bitch' or 'faggot', but people dont like to hear it from a white boy, who looks like them, and could be their son or friendly neighbour. they dont mind it from black people, who stand further away from them..because the black rappers all said it before, and no one complained about that like they do to Eminem..

thats his best friend proof, he knows him from his youth. now that eminem got famous, he tries to put his rapgroup d12 (with proof and eminem and 4 other members) to the foreground and get them famous too. all the members of that group are his friends from his youth who always stood by him and for the people on here still thinking eminem is a racist, all these guys are black...

this is not what hes saying, hes not hiding behind the fact that hes not he first to say it, just read what i said about the song in the beginning of this post...he just offers a theory in that song about why people go on and on about him and not other rappers who say the same things..

i would watch out with stereotyping his fans if i were you, sorry to hear that you dont hang out with intelligent people, but i consider myself intelligent, and i dont like to beat up females or gays in my spare time and no i dont carry any guns or go around saying fuck the world all day

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, in fact i am a female myself, and i dont feel offended at all by his lyrics..

static76..i totally agree with you, good to see someone here gets it

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last thing i want to say: ITS JUST MUSIC PEOPLE!! and i never heard anyone here say that the writer of the movie seven must be a complete wacko in his head for writing such ill scripts?? in the end whats the difference between a violent movie and a song?? doesnt it just show whats going on in the world, and doesnt it show us that it doesnt necessarily has to be the opinion of the writer itself?? does anyone here really think christina aguilera is a genie in a bottle because she sings this?? i dont think so..eminem just shows us whats going on in the world in his own way, he gives a twist on it and hes very funny often too...hes a great entertainer!! at least to me he is..

 

hmm not totally ready yet, i forgot these quotes:

uhmm how did you get this idea?? Eminem only wants the best for his daughter...this is what moby said about eminem, not what eminem is about, so dont turn it around like it is the truth about eminem, because it is obviously not..

eminem makes his own albums, so again i dont know how you got this idea?? he produces most of his songs himself, and he writes his own lyrics unlike some other artists (britney spears for instance) he's executive producer and producer of many songs on devils night, the album of d12...so he's not one of those 'pop'artists that been made big while all they have to do is sing and everything else has been done for him..he makes his own music..

 

"... but what's wrong with threatening people?"

Stop. Don't be so silly. Think about it. I gave you a bulleted list, eh?

• Eminem criticizes in his music
• Why should he not be criticized?
• Yet he threatens people who criticize him?

Oooh! Why is poor Eminem wrong to ... what? Why is Eminem wrong to threaten somebody with violence?

Do you really need that explained to you?

Do you really need that explained to you?

Two points:

• If you had read the links I included, you would have come across a very ironic point, that the same people who are publicly defending Eminem's music and saying it's so damn obvious what he's saying are also accusing huge numbers of people of not understanding. So in other words, it's obvious what he's saying if you're one of his fans and like listening to that. And the number of people who don't like him? Well, apparently they're all missing the point of what has been expressed with such genius that nobody can miss the point ... I found it ironic.

• I don't see that sense of parody in Eminem's fans. I see Eminem's fans imitating him literally. One of the primary reasons I reject "all you can say" is that if I don't see Eminem's lyrics as parodies of society, it's only because I generally favor what I see as the conventional interpretation. People keep telling me Eminem's songs are parodies and I've left that alone for a long time. But even in the people I know who listen to him a lot, the sense of parody isn't there. Like my Metallica example: "Disposable Heroes" is supposed to be an anti-war song. The majority of people I've ever discussed that issue with agree with me. Yet I saw it used as a war cry once. Well, I see the same kind of distortion of the commentary taking place on a larger scale. Sorry, but I just don't see Marshall's fans taking it as a parody and commentary. Either that or they're celebrating the characters and not the moral lessons or whatever the hell it is we're supposed to be getting from this high-cultured art.

Actually, quite a few people were booing him. Threatening Moby was just a cheap way to cover his own underestimation of the crowd.

Like I said before: Eminem is scared of real musicians. If he wasn't he would have responded in the studio. Yet we see the response is a feeble parody and a pretend murder, followed by threats issued at an awards ceremony and having to be restrained while directly harassing a person.

If Eminem was a real musician, a real artist, he would simply do his work in the studio and let that stand for him. But since he's outclassed in the studio by Moby, it seems threatening was all he could figure out.

Oh, well. He was probably just doing a "parody" of George W Bush, right?

Yeah, yeah. That's right. That's the ticket ....

thanx,
Tiassa

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Phrenetic

Well, yes.

You do realize Eminem reaps the benefits of payola? You do realize the record companies are paying radio stations to make him and a lot of other artists popular? Moby might even benefit from the payola. But yes: people were told to like Eminem for his fresh new voice and they did.

I just call it like I see it.

I mean, check it out: there's Eminem fans in here defending his threats of violence.

Shall we put the question to them directly: Do you advocate violence against Moby?

No? Then why advocate the threatening?

thanx,
Tiassa

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I hope I covered it ... oh, well. We can always get back to it if not.

Marshall obviously missed the record sales of N.W.A., Luke Skywalker & 2 Live Crew, or the Body Count side project.

And since your next statement is wrong, I will take a moment to discuss a conversation I actually had last night in the middle of my considerations of Eminem:

• A musician friend of mine happened to stop by, one who is currently recording and producing. He wants me to have respect for the lyrics the same way other people in this topic do. He doesn't think much of the lyrics, but we did talk about them, and I pointed out a couple of things that he didn't have much to say about, so I'll run them by you:

As a side note, my "friendly neighbors" have better ways of approaching what bugs them in the world than threatening people.

However, you have inaccurately represented the lyrics. He did not say he's not the only one who said bitch or faggot. He said he was not the first one to hit (strike, assault) a bitch or say "faggot".

Again, Marshall must have missed a few acts that came in front of him. Public Enemy, N.W.A., 2 Live Crew ....

Secondly, I pointed out to my friend the line about Margot Kidder, which note I have already mentioned. Simply finding a word that rhymes does not make lyrical genius. Such a sentiment as Eminem writes great lyrics still reminds me of Vanilla Ice and his "Rap is the hardest music to write because the words have to rhyme" bit. If he needed to be hiding in a bush, there are a bunch of better examples to use than someone having a nervous breakdown that may or may not be drug-related. But it rhymed, so the context doesn't matter. Think of it: Illiterate, illegitimate shit spitter, bitch getter, hid in the bushes while having a drug-induced nervous breakdown ....

Commentary and parody need to have fairly accurate frames of reference. I don't protest the line, but I do laugh at its stupidity. I mean, it's a nice rhyme, but what am I supposed to think of the fans in that case? Do they know who Margot Kidder is? Aside from the rhyme, what is the merit of the line? It's not offensive, it's just dumb. It's shallow and useless as a parody. It's just fine as a rhyme.

Food for thought. I wonder if they, too, have forgotten about Public Enemy, NWA, &c.?

I sincerely protest the idea that other rappers don't catch shit. Perhaps you missed Bob Dole, in 1995, saving Clinton's ass; after Clinton rained his fury on Sistah Souljah, Dole saved his ass by saying, "Well, if I was President, I would make that kind of music illegal."

Sistah Souljah, N.W.A., Public Enemy, 2 Live Crew.

Two points:

• The intelligent people I know simply don't bother with Eminem. I probably would have stayed out of this topic, but ....

• ... but I saw people defending his threats of violence, so I stuck my nose in it. In the meantime, what am I supposed to think of your intelligence when you advocate threats of violence?

Do you advocate violence against Moby?

Then why advocate the threat?

As long as it was just music, I was happy to leave it be. But it's not. Eminem chose to make it about something other than the music, and now his "intelligent" fans are advocating threats of violence.

Such a comparison suggests a lack of depth on your part. The writer of the movie Seven wrote a twisted story, but you'll notice it wasn't a first-person story the way Eminem's parodies often are. You'll notice that the writer of the movie did not defend the work by saying, "I'm not the first to do the things I'm writing about."

Generally, very little. Specifically, check the prior portion of this post.

First part, yes.

Second part, no it doesn't have to be the opinion of the writer. But are Eminem's lyrics honest? No? Then why are they so good? Like I pointed out before, with the Margot Kidder line, his "commentaries" are a contextual mess, his parodies without any focus in reality. Are Eminem's lyrics honest? Yes? Well?

Furthermore, the writer of Seven did not respond to criticisms of the film script by threatening people.

There's a huge difference there, as well.

There is a difference between singing about the impossible and "commenting on reality".

What am I supposed to think when here sits an Eminem fan demonstrating my point? I shall explain: Eminem's lyrical defenders say that critics have it wrong, tell us in essence that we are viewing the lyrics in the wrong context.

Yet you provide contextually disparate examples in his defense. There's nothing wrong with this if you tie it in appropriately, but the tie-ins seem to lead back to the same point: Threats of violence, and the "honesty" of Eminem's lyrics against the idea that the lyrics aren't honest.

Tell me what's funny about the Margot Kidder line.

Seriously; that's one of the first lines I noticed. Not gender or race issues, but contextual inaccuracy unless the point of the lyric was having a nervous breakdown, and I just don't think that's the case.

Fair enough, as demonstrated by record and ticket sales.

So, is the "fact" that he is a great entertainer an excuse to threaten violence?

Well? Marshall does seem to be quite approving of that kind of behavior. Tell you what: explain the Margot Kidder line, since that's sort of an anti-woman sounding bit. Show me how that line works out in relation to the rest of its verse and I will accept that Eminem does not approve (as per Moby) of abusive men through his music.

It seems to me that Eminem fills his albums with other people's sounds. Moby is known for doing this, too, but Moby is also a demonstrated musician. Anyone, these days, can produce an album of rapping and samples.

Furthermore, as I look in, I have to disagree with Eminem making his own albums. But as I look through the album credits for The Eminem Show. Eminem is credited as "primary artist", which could be termed "designer". Denaun Porter is credited as the "producer", and also programs his rhythms for him. A guy named Steven King is his engineer and mixer. A guy named Brian Gardner mastered the album. Mark Bass has Executive Production credits. And Larry Chatman is the project coordinator, alongside Kirdis Tucker, and they work with Les Scurry, who is the Production Coordinator.

Please note, though, that I have not held the musicians against Eminem. Even talented musicians need other musicians.

Understand, for comparison: When Nirvana recorded Bleach, an album which no band has yet matched, sure they did it in a day. They had the songs rehearsed from countless repetition. But when they did it there were four people in the studio who mattered: the band and a guy named Jack Endino, who was necessary because someone had to turn the knobs. Moby has a producer and an engineer, and beyond that very little aside from the musicians.

It's just that after Brian Wilson's studio work, Kevin Shields' studio work, and watching a friend engineer and produce his own album, I really must take issue with the idea that "Eminem makes his own albums".

Have you seen his production credits?

Gotta run.

thanx,
Tiassa

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First tiassa, I'm not even really a fan of Eminem (which I said earlier), I like a few of his songs, but my problem is the free pass Moby gets, and the slams against his fans.

There is a BIG difference between criticizing and lieing...

If I came onto these boards one day and said,"tiassa is a racist, an anti-semite, and hates atheists.", would that be okay???? I suspect you would be a little angry, and rightfully so....

As for threatening Moby, it's called testosterone my friend. We have been doing it since grade school, and will continue until we're buried in the ground.

Once again, is threatening to hit Moby really that bad???? People say worse things to others everyday in society(and this board for that matter), since when have we become a country of wimps?

I always here people ask "What happend to Rock", and I guess we now know... Would Ozzy Osbourne, Axel Rose, John Lennon, sit and take crap from an overrated DJ like Moby? It's no wonder how all the male Pop and Rock stars are starting to sound like women, we're not allowed to be men anymore.

I guess in your mind tiassa, we need more guys like N'Sync, Backstreet, or O-Town...

Also, how is saying "I'm not afraid to hit a man with glasses", a horrible threat. Aren't you overreacting just a bit?

I don't see why you would, I said i disagree with it.

I not sure I understand your point here.

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You need to get out more then...

I see 40 year old White guys, 50 year old women, listening and appreciating Eminem's songs. I see college students, business men, engineers, and housewives listening to his music.

The reason Eminem's album is sitting atop the charts for weeks is that all types of people like his music. We understand that his music is parody.

Why do you think he's scared of "real musicians"???He DID respond in the studio, and mentioned Moby in one of his songs. Perhaps you need to listen to the music before you slam it.

BTW- What work has Moby done, that outclasses him over Eminem????

 

like static76 said...he did respond in the studio...

please dont start that Eminem fans cant be intelligent, im in my final year of law study so dont tell me about being intelligent or not...you really go to far by saying those things...i dont advocate vioence againt moby, i actually never said anything on this whole thread about Eminems speech on the vma's. i dont advocate any violence at all...the only thing i mentioned was how the whole thing started off. i dont think it was the smartest move of Eminem to make to say that, but i dont blow it out of proportion either...he just said what came in his mind, and when he came back on stage to collect the 3th award he apologised in his way by saying:'you all have to excuse me, im going through some anger management classes.'

again, i dont advocate threats of violence, i just like Eminems music a lot, and thats all, and i think everyone just reads to much into it...and im not personally responsable for what Eminem does or not does just because im a fan..and i dont think i have to defend myself because i like his music either..backing eminem up for liking his music and still being a fan of him after the vma's and his not so very smart remark, isnt the same as advocating threads of violence. further all i think he's only a human being like we all are, he makes mistakes like we all do, and he never pretends to be different than that. unlikely moby who's playing the innocent guy, while hes talking shit behind Eminems back..eminem isnt the perfect little angel, but you will never hear him say that he is or see him pretend that he is..

again, you trying to insult me by saying i have lack of depth. if you would have thought about what you said you would notice there is some lack of depth on your side..what about a book in a first person but with violence in it or hate?? does that cross the line?? and the writer of seven didnt have to offend himself at all, because people didnt nag about it like they do with eminem..

what you are practically saying is that movies/books/music which arent exactly the artists thoughts or opinions or honest, cant be good. of course it can be, fiction is a big genre, not everything has to be autobiographic to be considered good. his lyrics are in parts honest, and in parts its just a big joke and parody or just mocking with the world...for the rest his raps are sort of like a rollercoaster..this is a part of taste, you like it or not, you cant attack him on that..like he says on the real slim shady: 'I'm like a head trip to listen to..'

i just took an example with christina aguilera's song, but i can say other things which arent impossible, like britney singing shes not yet a woman, though not a girl, or mariah carey singing she cant live without you, you dont take them so seriously as you do to every word eminem raps about..

that link is falls, mark bass isnt executive producer, that is dr. dre, denaun porter (member of d12 by the way, one of his closest friends) co produced one song with eminem, 3 out of 15 are produced by dr. dre, all the rest is produced by Eminem itself, you could better use the album booklet to back up your album credits, because those arent completely right, but oh yeah you wouldnt have that booklet because you never listen or buy his albums

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.

eminems lyrics have lots of sides in it, sometimes he's 'slim shady', other times he's just plain 'marshall', he got lots of sides in his music, so thats why you cant say his music is honest, or not honest, or realistic or not, because parts are and parts arent, and some parts are meant to be humour, other parts are dead serious, he mocks the whole world even himself often, for example: 'My mother did drugs - tar, liquor, cigarettes, and speed
The baby came out - disfigured, ligaments indeed
It was a seed who would grow up just as crazy as she
Don't dare make fun of that baby cause that baby was me (from the song criminal)'
...it just all comes down to taste if you like him or not..

and now im reallyyy tired, so im going to sleep

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Meandering? Well, yeah. But WOW, I was better off not hearing it.

How so? Did I miss the lyric?

I hope you're not thinking of the video, in which he responded by being an actor. And I hope you're not thinking of the fake-assassination, again in which he responded by being an actor.

If he is to respond in the studio, he should do so as a musician.

But if I missed the lyric, I would ask you to provide it. After all, the lyric is as close as I'm going to get to music in this case.

Please don't tell you about my observations of the world? Tell me I'm wrong, if you want, but don't run away from it. I really go far? How so? By telling it like I see it? What's the matter, am I not allowed to be "honest" like Eminem?

Guess what ... I don't have to stick my nose out to be chopped off in what I say about Eminem fans. I'm perfectly willing to believe the few people who say Eminem has intelligent fans. However, I don't see intelligence in the majority of their public representation, and in my own immediate experience I can say that I have a very low opinion of the intelligence of the people I know who do like Eminem. My own opinion is based on observation of and interaction with these people who happen to like Eminem.

Further, I see no intelligence whatsoever in defending threats of violence.

You mean,

That wonderful justification for threatening violence?

Here's a take that might ring better with you: despite my sentiments about Eminem's lyrics and the quality of his fans, I personally didn't give a rat's ass about him. He seemed no more or less illiterate and selfish than many others who have Top 40 singles. But when he extended his attitude to threatening someone on television, it struck a chord, so to speak. You'll notice Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins never publicly threatened each other that way. I see a connection between the mentality of his artistic expression and his personal expression. I mention Peter Gabriel for another reason, too, but more on that in a moment.

Sounds like shameless self-promotion to me, since the tour he's on is called The Anger Management Tour.

Regardless of how much you say that, I keep seeing you defending his actions: ...unlikely moby who's playing the innocent guy, while hes talking shit behind Eminems back.

So what? Eminem could have won that public spat if he'd just done it in the studio. Again, point me to the lyric, but beyond that, he chose to bring it out of the studio and keep the fire burning.

Are you sure about that? After all, I did point out that misrepresentation of his critics in his song. Sounds like he's pretending to me.

So inaccurate. I am not trying to insult you. Rather, as I noted, the comparison you've offered suggests a lack of depth. Seven, as an artistic work, is part of an entirely different context from The Eminem Show.

That's why it's called fiction. Furthermore, I would hope you won't pretend that writers have it easy. Just look at Huckleberry Finn. And the author even warned people not to read the book the way they do.

Depends on the depiction. I actually have a very liberal standard for free speech. Of course, that also includes people giving their perceptions of the art works that benefit from that standard. For instance, Moby. The thing is that if that is how he feels, then that is how he feels. Eminem could try responding to the charges with an educated, rational response, but such a tactic is either beyond him or not profitable enough.

Anger management classes ... that was a good one.

About the only thing I won't say about Eminem is that he shouldn't be allowed to do it. On the contrary, I think he has every right to make an ass out of himself. And his fans have the right to cheer him on while he does. And I have the right to laugh at the lot of them while they do. It's beautiful how it all works out that way.

Quite frankly, I'm not sure how to read that. Just tell me the line is or isn't correct as written and I'll try again. But it's easier and saves space to simply say, What?

That's a larger theory for another day. Specifically, what I was referring to is Eminem's lyrical skill. When I say the lyrics aren't honest, I mean that they don't reflect everything that goes with them. "Margot Kidder" is part of that line because it's close to "bitch getter". So the bitch-getter hid in the bushes like ... and yes, I agree that "Margot Kidder" is a creative joke. But when Margot Kidder was hiding in the bushes ....

I admit that I am also considering a conversation that took place on my end with a friend which you are not privy to, but it followed the same lines. I was trying to get him to explain to me the lyrical "genius" (if you will) of Eminem. He was talking about allegory and representation and all of these ideas I'm very familiar with. But here's a joke for you: Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Jimmy Carter was a Democrat. Sure, it's absurd. And in that sense some people find it funny. But what does one have to do with the other? I'm not even complaining about the term "bitch-getter". I'm pointing out the simplicity of using "Margot Kidder" because it rhymes.

It's not an honest lyric because it depends on a suspension of the facts of Margot Kidder in the context of hiding in the bushes. It's a fine lyric, I suppose, a nifty rhyme. I admit I'm impressed that he pulled it out in the first place, but there are a hundred "bushes" stories between then and now, so why not choose one equally famous that has more relevant significance? Like I noted earlier of the lyric: hiding in the bushes like I'm having a nervous breakdown is most likely not what Eminem was implying.

So what I'm after is that either way I have questions. If his lyrics are honest, I see a couple of problems. Obviously, with the I'm not first bit, but also with the simplistic representation of the Margot Kidder issue. If his lyrics are honest, then such poorly-assembled images are an honest representation of how he sees the world, which is kind of scary to think about if you're one of his fans. If his lyrics aren't honest ... well, so much for the fans.

I still think you're contextually askew. For the record, though, I'm not big on love songs, or "can't-live-without-you". The only plus side is if the performer can actually sing.

But what about those things should I take issue with? Perhaps you could propose a couple of options?

If I'm reading you right, you ought to email Eminem's organization and let them know that they are being falsely represented. It is a legal issue, you know. Unlike Moby, the B&N website is breaking the law. Maybe Eminem will go on down to Barnes & Noble and smack that bitch around some.

I always love that idea ... I'm supposed to buy his album. Like the Christian who told me that I shouldn't comment on someone's book unless I've bought it. I always wonder about the people who suggest that I ought to buy something that I have no desire to (Eminem) or that I object to (author of question in the Christian argument).

But if you would just support what you don't want to support, everything would be better ....

But is he honest about it?

I mean, he can do it honestly, or as a poseur. Even when he's deliberately being a poseur, is he doing it honestly? Or is he a poseur pretending to be a poseur for credibility's sake? That's a harsh example, but as he moves through the phases, is he doing it honestly?

He's just put himself in a precarious position where answering "yes" or "no" will be each their own Pandora's box.

It's why you don't stoop to the level he did. I say that sympathetically, because it's a hard thing to figure out.

If he wants to make a sincere apology for threatening violence, that would incite a huge reversal of many of my considerations. If, however, he chooses to stand on his position and leave it as part of "the act", well ... whether he does it honestly or not doesn't matter much because either speaks ill of his value.

Literally: that's exactly why one should not do what he did.

And, yes ... it's what bugs me about people supporting his behavior.

Beyond that, Eminem is somebody I don't give a rat's ass about. I don't want him on the soundtrack to a movie I'm seeing, but he must first get better before he gets the dubious honor being someone I won't change the station to avoid. Mind you, it's not the most dubious, either. I mean, I change the station to avoid bad music, not to avoid being offended. But he must first get better before he will be granted an accepting audience in my environment. Oh, well. Britney, Christina, Jessica, Backstreet, N'Sync, Puddle of Mudd, Mudvayne, System of a Down, Kid Rock, Destiny's Child, Papa Roach--he's got good company, I guess ... One thing I will say for Eminem, though: most of the time I don't know who I'm turning off. I'm usually aware of it when it's Eminem. I'll give him credit for that.

And as to your example: You know, Hitler had his moments. Now, before that bugs you too much, let me explain: I'm not drawing a direct comparison to Hitler any more than I would to anyone else I could use in that case. The point I am making is that certain things are common among humans. You should hear me talk about my biological progenitor; it's not kind because I usually only do it if someone brings her up while I'm drinking heavily. Sober, I'm smart enough to duck the topic. But we all have much in common. How often do we as humans recognize each other for those things? It is mostly by what we do to set ourselves apart from one another that we are viewed and judged.

That Marshall has moments of genuine introspection I would never doubt. Nor would I doubt that of you, or of Jesus Christ or of Hitler or of anybody in between. I am, incidentally, glad that he includes them on his albums. But I would hope he's doing it honestly.

You know, I had mentioned Peter Gabriel earlier, but I think that second point I was thinking about might go elsewhere ...

Maybe it went with the production notes.

But it's interesting: listen to a few artists who cut together samples--Moby, Gorillaz, Eminem, Peter Gabriel ....

Where I draw the distinction against Eminem as a musician is well-marked in that list.

Moby is a musician. I'm not big on his style, but everything I hear from him is musical. Eminem engineers sound. There is something to the art of pasting together a bunch of deliberately-created sounds into something that passes for music, but in that sense I point to Peter Gabriel, whose album is finally (after nine years) ready to go. The thing is, we hear five years ago that he was finished collecting sound, and was planning a sound-mosaic album. Well, it's now five years after that and we finally get to hear some of it. And it's subtle. Peter Gabriel is someone who works with both music and sound. Eminem seems much more oriented toward working with sound. The musical part of Eminem's performance seems almost incidental. Gorillaz? Again, there is a combination of music and sound. Damon Albarn is no Peter Gabriel, but we might also think of Del tha Funkee Homosapien, who manages a great deal of musicality even in his own strangely two-dimensional Deltron 3030. At this point, were we in a tavern discussing this over beers, I would simply look at you and say, "Gorillaz ... there's a stylophone solo on the album. Come on. Can Eminem even give me that?"

Given what other people are doing with sound, and what other people are doing with music I stand by two statements specifically: (A) Five short steps to make your own Eminem album, (B) Eminem is scared of real musicians.

I'm out on Limewire and I've just downloaded the first Moby song and first Eminem song I could find; I've heard about equal amounts of each before. I ended up with "Natural Blues" by Moby and "Without Me" by Eminem. Now, please, somebody tell me which Eminem song they would like to promote as a statement of his abilities because I'm seriously hoping this second-rate effort isn't the whole of it.

I mean, I hope that's his sense of humor.

Many people have a word that adequately describes Eminem's "Without Me". It's not a word I use in this context, though, since it carries repercussions for people who have nothing to do with the situation. But today I will use that word because it is the only one that comes to mind. Dude: that song is fucking gay.

I mean, really. I actually resent that use of the word gay. But it sounds ferociously homosexual, diva-arrogant ... it really reminds me of a trannie pageant. The backtrack went beyond "not bad", too, and while it wouldn't have stood as a song by itself, I think the whole atmosphere was dragged down by a pompous, queenie primadonna yelling all over the place.

I'll give Eminem that much: I didn't think he was that bad. Holy shite.

Mind you, I don't like using gay as a dig, but I don't think the word can be applied in any complimentary sense. I mean, even if I was legitimately impressed by the quality of the primadonna bit, I don't think Marshall would appreciate it.

At any rate, I wasn't expecting that.

On that note, I need a cigarette and a few minutes to recover. I feel much better now that it is flushed from my computer.

I am prepared to say that Eminem is a musician insofar as Ed Wood was a director. And that's just a little unkind to Mr Wood.

I do understand, however, how some people could come to like that. It's not entirely a mystery.

But he should have stayed a sideshow, and not tried to make himself the main event.

Anyone can suggest another song. I'll give it another whirl.

Oh, yeah. Moby. Of "Natural Blues": Sure, it's okay. But it's musical and exploratory. With its music. It's lyrics seem almost incidental, there to give the reason to work a distorted vocal into the soundscape. It's hardly pioneering, but it's musical and it's annoyingly catchy.

Cigarette ... cigarette ...

thanx,
Tiassa

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Moby is about music; if Eminem is about music, why the sideshow?

Moby says he heard it, Moby gets to say he's heard it. Moby wants to say what he thinks about it, Moby gets to say what he thinks about it. Such as you continue ...

Well, I would worry about it when you put up your reasons for thinking so. If it seemed that you had a legitimate reason, I would answer the charges. If it seemed that you did not, I would simply ask you to provide one. Even if you simply said, as with Moby of Eminem, "I just remember you writing something anti-semitic one day," at least that would give me the option of saying, "Okay, whatever. Let me know when you've got something." And what I would not do is threaten you publicly with violence on a later occasion because of it.

That ... uh ... makes it right, doesn't it?

Never mind.

Using a public forum to threaten any violence against an individual for such petty reasons is really that bad. I reserve the right for a President to be an idiot and threaten whomever they want when the time calls for it, but yes, threatening to hit Moby was that bad.

 

Eminem's music has meaning, Moby's doesn't...

Damn it tiassa, everytime I get out, you pull me back in...

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As I said before, Moby lied and was talking out of his ass. The only reason I even got into this thread was because I felt people needed to know this.

He has a right to say whatever he thinks about, BUT not to spread lies about other artists.

Eminem answered Moby in song, and has denied being homophobic. Elton John has heard his music, and is a friend with Eminem and also says he's not anti-gay. He has done exactly what you said you would do in his situation. Is the whole reason for your rant, the words that Eminem said to Moby (when Moby was booing) at the VMAs?

"Does it make it right" you ask, maybe. Trash talking is something we do all the time, and isn't the same as a threat. Saying "I will.., hit a man with glasses", isn't the same as saying "I'm going to hit you Moby".

Your bashing Eminem over a trash talking comment on a guy who was booing him, while he was accepting an award.

He never threatened to hit Moby. He said he would hit a man with glasses (why do I feel I'm repeating myself

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), that is hardly a threat, it's more trash talking than anything else.

And Moby is the one who was booing Eminem while he accepted an award, (why haven't you called him out for that).

NO, it's trash talking, he didn't attack Moby physically, and only answered his booing.

LMAO! I think you missed the point I was making.

Poison has lyrics??

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Eminem's music is not a dirty joke, at least not to any of his fans I know. As I said, it's about SATIRE and PARODY of our society.

I'm well aware of this. But Eminem was respected before he came out on his own. He was known in the Hip Hop underground for years before he made it big.

Did you know that Eminem has answered MANY artists before musically. He answered rappers like Canibus, and Jermaine Dupri. He answered Christina Agrilera(who FIRST talke about him on MTV) musically. He has answered Insane Clown Posse, and Limp Biscuit musically. He never threatened them, as a matter of fact, he was respectful to Agrilera at the VMAs, even though she was the one who handed him the award.

Did you also say Yoko Ono had one of the most powerful commentaries in all of popular music???????????? Maybe that was a typo..

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You should check out "Guilty Conscience" - which satires and reflects the moral thinking of many in our society today.

Listen to "Stan" - that covers the very thing you seem to despise.., Eminem fans, and shows how taking his lyrics literally can lead to disaster. Here is the last verses of this song, where Eminem is writing a letter back to his crazed fan...
Dear Stan, I meant to write you sooner but I just been busy
You said your girlfriend's pregnant now, how far along is she?
Look, I'm really flattered you would call your daughter that
and here's an autograph for your brother,
I wrote it on the Starter cap
I'm sorry I didn't see you at the show, I musta missed you
Don't think I did that shit intentionally just to diss you
But what's this shit you said about you like to cut your wrists too?
I say that shit just clownin dogg,
c'mon - how fucked up is you?
You got some issues Stan, I think you need some counseling
to help your ass from bouncing off the walls when you get down some
And what's this shit about us meant to be together?
That type of shit'll make me not want us to meet each other
I really think you and your girlfriend need each other
or maybe you just need to treat her better
I hope you get to read this letter, I just hope it reaches you in time
before you hurt yourself, I think that you'll be doin just fine
if you relax a little, I'm glad I inspire you but Stan
why are you so mad? Try to understand, that I do want you as a fan
I just don't want you to do some crazy shit
I seen this one shit on the news a couple weeks ago that made me sick
Some dude was drunk and drove his car over a bridge
and had his girlfriend in the trunk, and she was pregnant with his kid
and in the car they found a tape, but they didn't say who it was to
Come to think about, his name was.. it was you
Damn!


A song from his current album you should check out is "Cleaning out my Closet", which tells why he hates his Mother and the things she has done to him. It may give you alot of insight as to who he is, and where his views are coming from.

None of Moby's music, in my opinion, has much meaning. Eminem's does.

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Re: Moby is about music; if Eminem is about music, why the sideshow?

I have an article that says what I think on this perfectly.

Eminem is out there fighting the good fight, saving rock 'n' roll. That's right, saving rock 'n' roll. How is that, you ask?
Rock 'n' roll is about not giving a fuck. Eminem certainly does not give a fuck. Just read any interview, listen to his music, or go see him live. He does what he does because he loves it, because he wants to speak his mind, and to battle his own demons (as well as to make himself wealthy). To quote Eminem, "Hey, there's a concept that works."

That, to me, is the essence of rock 'n' roll. With every radio format playing the same cookie-cutter pop and hard rock bands day in and day out, those annoying groups that manufacture angst and turbulence to sell records, something, or someone, needed to come along and shake things up. Otherwise, rock 'n' roll would die a slow death.

There are plenty of great bands below the radar helping to preserve the dignity of rock 'n' roll. Check out The Queens of the Stone Age and ...You Will Know Us By The Trail of Dead, two bands that will be touring together this fall. Both bands are signed to major labels and deliver essential listening for any fan of true-to-form rock 'n' roll. And both bands embody the spirit of rock 'n' roll. The same spirit that drives, or rather haunts, Eminem.

However, Eminem is selling millions upon millions of records, whereas Trail of Dead and Queens of the Stone Age are selling a small fraction of that.

I can hear you now. "Shut up you idiot, Eminem is a rapper. Trail of Dead and Queens of the Stone Age are rock bands". I'm sure I'll get plenty of e-mails stating something to that affect, though knowing some of you out there, you who have e-mailed me before to 'comment' on my reviews, it will probably be a lot harsher.

My reply is simple. Have you listened to his new album?

The Eminem Show is a rock 'n' roll album disguising itself as rap. Layers upon layers of production, noise, and screaming, along with Eminem's trademark lyrical wit and rhyming skills, make it a record that far exceeds anything going on in rap today. For that matter, it far exceeds the current offerings of 'modern rock' bands.

The first verse of "White America", the first song on The Eminem Show, poetically sums up the concept of the album:

I never would've dreamed in a million years I'd see, so many motherfuckin' people who feel like me/ Who share the same views and the same exact beliefs, it's like a fuckin' army marchin' in back of me/ So many lives I touch, so much anger aimed in no particular direction, just sprays and sprays/ Straight through your radio waves it plays and plays, till it stays stuck in your head for days and days.

It's been years since anyone has come along and truly shocked the nation. Elvis Presley did it, bringing rock 'n' roll to a whole new level. His provocative hip-shake wasn't allowed on TV; the Ed Sullivan Show filmed him from the waist up. The goal was to curb the chaos that was rising over Presley and his music - and rock 'n' roll.

It only elevated the power of rock 'n' roll and the will of those who listen to the music.

KISS came along and once again rocked the nation, with their make-up and loud anthems. Soccer moms everywhere united to put an end to the "Knights in Satan's Service". KISS reassured rebellious youth that rock 'n' roll was their escape, their way of getting out of the oppression that comes with being young, and their chance to express themselves when people wouldn't listen. "Give me a mic, show me where the mother fucking studio is at," Eminem asserts in "White America".

There are others, of course. But there hasn't been one in a long time. Take away the make-up and "scary" colored contacts from Marilyn Manson and you have another cookie-cutter rock band rehashing something that has been done before. Ever heard of Alice Cooper?

On this level, something needed to happen. There always has been bands on the verge of breaking that never got their chance or that succumbed to label and management pressures, selling their artistic souls in order to sell records. It's a bottom-line game, I understand that, and so do the artists. So they give in and become something they didn't originally set out to be, and end up becoming very successful at it.

Then you have the underground bands that shape and influence the stars of tomorrow, garnering influential status years after their demise. The Replacements and Husker Du, to name a few, kept the idea of rock 'n' roll alive throughout the 80's, when cheesy keyboard pop and hair metal were what was selling.

The Replacements and Husker Du never sold millions of records, but they influenced those who went on to sell millions of records. If it wasn't for The Replacements, a little kid named Kurt Cobain may have never got the confidence to believe he could pick up a guitar and sing songs about the world as he saw it. Cobain would later go on to form Nirvana and change the scene of commercial radio and send major labels into a signing spree to find another rock band as compelling as Nirvana - that would sell as many records as Nirvana.

Granted, Nirvana wasn't controversial. They did, however, make it on their own terms and go from being just another garage band to a multi-platinum selling band capable of packing arenas worldwide. They then opened the door to shove out all the hair metal bands as radio replaced their playlists with three-chord punk-inspired rock.

Eminem, with his rock 'n' roll soul, whether he knows it or not, is opening the door for radio to change, and this change is crucial to the survival of rock 'n' roll in years to come. After all, if The Replacements hadn't influenced Nirvana, who in turn blew up and reached a mass audience, thus influencing countless bands to come, Poison and Ratt's influences may have made a huge impact. Pearl Jam may have never made it on the radio, nor would have Stone Temple Pilots. The domino effect continues and radio today, and music, would be in a much more dire situation.

The fact is, Eminem is a very angry young man. As he has stated in countless interviews, he needs therapy - and lots of it - but he is afraid that if he takes therapy his edge will be gone. Take the edge from the Goo Goo Dolls and you have a multi-million selling pop band that forgot their punk-rock roots. Take the edge from Eminem and you have a skinny white boy with a troubling past rapping about all his money and girls he's slept with, his fancy cars, and his big house. Sound like every other rapper out there?

No, Eminem's honesty and I-don't-give-a-fuck attitude - his rock 'n' roll spirit - is what is going to save us from the likes of Limp Bizkit and their offspring. His attitude, his ability to make it on his own terms, anger intact, is what is going to catapult the music business into a better place within a few years. The wheels are in motion now. His presence has been felt.

The music industry is in a slump. Overall music sales are down 3% over last year, which was down from the year before. It is a perpetual spiral that could have continued to worsen if someone didn't come along and make waves. Nirvana did it with their music and insight; Eminem does it with his perception and controversy, taking the two things he could use to better music, and using the power for good.

Eminem isn't without his flaws. His records seem to live up to the honor I am bestowing on him, the honor of saving rock 'n' roll. His live shows certainly do not.

On the recent Anger Management Tour, Eminem did nothing but disappoint. From lip-synching to his own music, to allowing several other prominent rappers to rap along with him, much of the time overpowering Eminem in the mix, virtually destroying the credibility of the songs, Eminem became a run-of-the-mill rapper.

His show was overrun by eye candy, mindless indulgence for the mass public still feeding themselves on the bland and lifeless music that has taken control of the airwaves.

If Eminem can reach just one kid - JUST ONE - and that kid in turn uses the philosophy of Eminem to create music that is true to itself and has something to say, Eminem will have earned the honor.

We need to understand that Eminem is now more than a musician. He is an entertainer. He is paid to entertain, and, so it goes, his live show must be fun and frills-driven. That is how he affords to continue his pursuit, to continue his agenda, battling his demons and speaking his mind, inadvertently saving rock 'n' roll.

When he says, "20 million other white rappers emerge. But no matter how many fish in the sea, it'd be so empty without me," Eminem speaks the truth. There are bound to be imitators following in his footsteps. There were imitators that followed in Nirvana's footsteps, major labels approving, if not breeding, the lies, offering money for those that wanted to step up. It led to radio and music being in the state that it is in.

We can't reply on the music industry to learn their lessons, either. That is why, now that Eminem is bigger than The Beatles (at least for now), major labels will be in pursuit, looking for the next Eminem. Let me tell you now, there will never be another Eminem. There will never be another Nirvana. And there will never be another KISS. What we can hope for, what we need, is someone to understand, someone to take something from what Eminem has done, and continue to carry the torch of honesty and musical integrity. Eminem has done his part. He's saved rock 'n' roll.


http://www.inmusicwetrust.com/articles/52f03.html

LOL! I love MANY types of music. You should read my thoughts here, http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10658.

 

i see you keep on talking about eminem responding in the studio, but you never said anything about that moby should have started it in the studio or respond back to what eminem said in the song in the studio. moby was the one choosing it to take it out of the studio. and like static76 said, eminem is known for responding in the studio, all those people static76 named and he forgot everlast (eminem made 2 whole diss songs especially for him

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) and dj lethal...and i totally agree on what static76 said about the sentence '' i will hit a man with glasses'. he got booed at, and felt he needed to say something about it, so he said that. it wasnt smart, but you can overreact the whole thing.

first of all, i dont feel the need to compare eminem or moby, because they both make very different sort of music. im sure if moby tried to rap he couldnt do it like eminem, and im sure if eminem would try to make mobys music, he wouldnt be able to do it as moby. but they both are respected artists. peter gabriel is very different kind of music than eminem. i like peter gabriel too, but its just not comparable to rap. thats a whole different thing.

first of all, you downloaded the wrong song, to really hear what eminem is about. the one static76 said are indeed very good songs. i think its very funny you dare to use the word 'gay' while if eminem would use that word in his songs, he would get shit from everyone.

my mom loves eminem. and she does know the lyrics, we talk about it, and i give her the lyrics to read while the song is playing.

in the end you are just like moby. never heard one song of eminem, but then again think that you know everything about him and his songs. even just reading the lyrics can give you a wrong idea of eminem, because you wont hear when he's joking or not. i dont mind you not listening to eminem, and im not saying go out and buy it, but at least before talking things about him and his lyrics, take the time to listen to his albums, and look at some interviews of him. because in the interviews he explains a lot about his music and you will see he's a very calm, smart and reasonable person. if he would have been known for beating up his wife, raping girls, killing people or whatever things some people think he's capable of because he raps about it, i would be the last to buy his albums and support him as an artist. but it is only music.

like static76 said, eminem was known in the hiphopunderground for a long time, before he really made it big when dr. dre found out about him. last thing i want to point out is that eminem is one of the best freestylers in the rap scene. he done this since he was very young, entered in competitions, and this made him known in the underground too.