Slavery then and now

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by birch, Oct 1, 2016.

  1. birch Valued Senior Member

    What i find strange even today, especially in politics, is the idea that parasitism is only one-directional and especially what has been drilled and programmed into society especially by the rich.

    Slavery at its core is pure and unbridled parasitism. One sows and another reaps. Today we have paid slavery, more or less, where we get a more fairer piece of the pie.

    Things do not affect or occur in only one direction. Just as the poor in society are constantly told to try and make it to the top, the truth is, those on the lower tiers are needed to provide for those on the top. Its clear once you actually see things as they are. It is not true that those on top are the only ones providing for those below them as those on top rely on all the actual tangibles provided by those on the bottom.

    So i always laugh when i hear the cliche lament of the elite that they have to pay taxes and denigrate the welfare recipients, poor, disabled etc. As if parasitism in some form can only be one directional. Yeah, im sure a slave or servant was thinking that when asked for frivolous requests like get off your own ass and get it yourself.

    Mostly because its not a fair system either way. Never was and never has been. I think the elite should be aware and just feel fortunate that enough people are either dumb enough to work for another while the owner reaps most of the profit etc or in some cases teamwork is beneficial for all involved.
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  3. TheFrogger Valued Senior Member

    Hello Birch. I agree society and the flow of focus is without unidirectionalism. For example watching the news last week my friend turned to me and said, "They're bullying the sheep look." We do not only step on those below us, but those at the top are also attacked. In fact I would state those above are attacked BEFORE those below. This is why the roles at the top are more highly paid: managers etc. They become targets for attack; Brentism.
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  5. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    I think it is a despicable insult to real slaves to call what you just described "slavery".
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  7. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

    Naturally, you are referring to Disney.
    wegs likes this.
  8. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Sucker people into buying what they can't afford, then loan them the money that enslaves them to the economic imperative. If that doesn't work, raise their taxes, then mandate their paying certain well represented insurance industries.
  9. timojin Valued Senior Member

    I agree with you . We are slaves to ourselves , we many time buy not what we need but what we want , so we get yourself into debt
    sculptor likes this.
  10. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Leaning in agreement with this comment.
    Russ_Watters likes this.
  11. birch Valued Senior Member

    Lemme guess, you are one of those who are very pro-capitalist feigning you friggimg care about unfairness.

    The facts are the system is a more or less a pyramid scheme. There are many jobs where those who are doing the work get paid less simply because of technicalities, not actual production.

    Case in point, there was a possible business where i might have been able to reap half the profits for half the work as a partner but when that changed, it went from half profits to less than a 1/3 for most all of the actual work. The technicality was one is the owner and another is not. Even admitted to me was looking for people to work for him so he could have more leisure time. Found someone who was willing to do the work for a lower pay simply because he didnt know that you can do it yourself and be your own entrepreneur and find your own clients, thereby keeping all the profits. After all, you are doing most of the work etc.

    Granted, not every scenario is that way and depending on the business you do need management and additional staff under you but still the idea is the same and prevalent to make most profit off of others with the least work or effort for the one who can work the capitalist system to advantage.

    Stop pretending this isnt the case just because its 'legal' and there are plenty of sheeple who dont know better.

    So objectively my analysis is fucking objectively true, its just improved from the days where people were more horribly taken advantage of or barely compensated to keep them alive. Just because its 'better' now, doesnt mean the premise is still not active.
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
  12. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    I've only bought 5 items on time payments.
    1 guitar
    1 car
    3 houses
    (all of which were paid off ahead of schedule)
  13. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

    Your analysis may have some merit but your use of the word "slavery" is still wrong. Slavery doesn't just mean bad labour practices.
  14. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

    Birch & others: You folks do not seem to know that slaves do not have the option of quitting or going on strike.

    Slavery was possible in pre-industrial feudal-like agricultural economies, based on land ownership by the head honchos.

    It seldom (if ever) existed for a long time in a technological culture without forcibly preventing people from emigrating.
  15. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

    The non-inherited instances of affluence / success are susceptible to viewing themselves as truly deserving exemptions and additional rewards on the basis of having taken the risks in forging a new business. Generic example: "Providing jobs for people was only an incidental consequence of my establishing this company, not the primary motive. It's outrageous that public perception inverts the actual situation so that I have to cater to and set-up privileges for the former."

    Europe has come a long way from the days of its class systems. Back then there were even strata of the proletariat which took perverse pride in "staying in their place". Outrunning dependence on both the rigid social customs and a crab-bucket mentality in regard to ensuring that there was a stable supply of manual and specialized workers available.

    Whereas on the continent today, Angela Merkel's acceptance of circa a million refugees last year was stimulated as much by looming labor shortages in Germany as the thinly veiled humanitarian motives praised by southpaw politics. The servile "underclass" which was once largely native to a resident population of the West in the Old World now has to be imported from increasingly distant outside sources.

    The eventual prevalence of AI and smart machines will unfortunately undermine even the need of human employees from that global range. Incredibly, though, there might be a couple of meager pluses: The "Machinocene Era" may draw industry back to the home countries (enables cheap manufacturing there once again). And the average person (non-elite) might be permitted to buy into part or whole ownership of a smart machine that's working for a business (along with a small profit percentage), with the responsibility of maintaining it (thus either avoiding or mitigating an epidemic level of poverty).
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    And so once burned in that fashion, you are never going to vote for a Republican politician again. Right?
  17. wellwisher Banned Banned

    It is hard to talk about slavery due to PC conditioning and the expected response. Many people are slaves to PC. They can't opt out and if they try, they will be hobbled for trying to leave. I am not a slave to PC so I will speak freely.

    Slavery has been around since the beginning of civilization. Slaves helped to build the great pyramids in Egypt. If there had not been slaves to build these large scale public works programs, these may never have occurred. In the case of Egypt, the state owned the majority of the slaves.

    One may ask, in modern times, does the state still own slaves? The answer is yes, since slavery is connected to the concept of taxes. The tax payer, is required to work, a percent of their work week, with no say about the spoils of that labor. Nor can they opt out of the tax slavery to the state without the slave owner state getting very upset. Like the slaves of old, the state can make use of is slave force, to benefit the needs of the state or its leaders.

    Are alimony and palimony forms of slavery? If you do the math, one of the two former spouses is forced to provide slave labor; value, with the other former spouse not having to offer an equal exchanges of goods and services. These are also things you can't opt out of; state sponsored slavery. If it quack like a duck but PC says it is a swan, it is still a duck.

    There is another angle on slavery, that is often not mentioned. Say a farmer owns a horse that he like to ride into town with a saddle to get supplies. The horse is a slave, since he not paid for each taxi ride and he is owned by the farmer. Say the farmer loves his horse so he feeds him well and he take care of his horse needs, is the horse still a slave, simply because the horse can't control his own destiny?

    Slaves were not cheap unless state owned since the state could steal slaves by decree. But for the private citizen, slaves were an expensive asset that could be used to help with labor and chores. Owning a slave was not much different from the farmer buying a new horse or a tractor. Because of the expense and the value of this asset, it was to the benefit of the farmer to maintain his equipment. A healthy horse or a well tuned tractor that is very reliable, makes the investment worth while. It makes no sense, to buy a new tractor or horse, and not maintain these.

    In the bible, there were rules for dealing with slaves. There were slave rights since they were an asset.

    Exodus 21 The Treatment of Slaves
    21 “Give the Israelites the following laws: 2 If you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve you for six years. In the seventh year he is to be set free without having to pay anything. 3 If he was unmarried when he became your slave, he is not to take a wife with him when he leaves; but if he was married when he became your slave, he may take his wife with him. 4 If his master gave him a wife and she bore him sons or daughters, the woman and her children belong to the master, and the man is to leave by himself. 5 But if the slave declares that he loves his master, his wife, and his children and does not want to be set free, 6 then his master shall take him to the place of worship. There he is to make him stand against the door or the doorpost and put a hole through his ear. Then he will be his slave for life.

    7 “If a man sells his daughter as a slave, she is not to be set free, as male slaves are. 8 If she is sold to someone who intends to make her his wife, but he doesn't like her, then she is to be sold back to her father; her master cannot sell her to foreigners, because he has treated her unfairly. 9 If a man buys a female slave to give to his son, he is to treat her like a daughter. 10 If a man takes a second wife, he must continue to give his first wife the same amount of food and clothing and the same rights that she had before. 11 If he does not fulfill these duties to her, he must set her free and not receive any payment.
  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Wow, all through high school and college I was a slave and never knew it!

    And to think that modern blacks go on and on about how slavery was such a bad thing . . . .
    Russ_Watters likes this.
  19. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Many people of varying races, cultures, and religions have been enslaved at one time or another.
  20. Goliathus Registered Member

    There is real slavery aswell, even today, just so you know.

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