Simple method to transmit thoughts that always works.

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by kwhilborn, Feb 28, 2007.

  1. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    17,542
    Good contra!
    Well at least I can see that you have understood my argument.
    In all the research I have done on the P.E. I have not come across your version. If you have a link, please, would be great!
    Is it worth noting that you date the publishing of the hoax as of later than 1953?
    Are you aware that the first popular/published contemporary UFO sighting was in 1947 by Kenneth Arnold [private pilot]?

    It was an interesting time and I believe [ unsupported ] that it was during this time that the field of "Psychiatry" started to formalize it's diagnostic and treatment programs.
    Taking advantage of your assessment, the P.E. most probably was an exercise in nasty science fiction using the "science of the day's" possibilities to fuel it. [As was the contemporary interest in UFO's]

    I guess one could surmise that it was due to the rapid expansion in scientific understanding at the time [ Nuclear, QM, QED, Computing, Communications, etc ] that could have been fueling the imaginations at the time. >1953 but not necessarily 1943 which is the actual supposed date of the experiment.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2013
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  3. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    17,542
    There was an interesting short story [marketing] I recall that was about how flooding the market with confessions of mal-practice rendered the original complaint useless due to the fact that in the end after many months of propaganda no one could believe anything.
    ie.

    a man accused of stealing candy from a baby.

    To cover up his theft he propagates a huge number of further accusations which render the entire situation a farce and he ends up being seen as the "Salem" victim and not the perpetrator.


    chuckle - sounds a bit like a "Seinfeld" repeated disclaimer: "Not that there is anything wrong with that"

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  5. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    17,542
    Seriously though, I have witnessed too many instances of persons attempting to psychically manipulate, that are associated with one particular well known "Global secret organization" to ignore it's plausability. I have even interviewed a couple of their victims [events occurring on public trains where by the victim [ always female ] would be rendered immobile for extended periods of time even though the perpetrators of some distance away was giving her every reason to flee. And from what I have experienced over the years this organization practices a form of collective or group "chanting" at regular times on a routine basis using a method and understanding associated/similar to the Reiki healing system.

    There is evidence in an underground crypt [Church] that this particular organization may have been using these methods since the mid 1400's. and before. [I'll see if I can find the images taken and determine whether or not they are able to be published in this context.]

    Note: this does not mean that they are "actually" manipulating" it only means that they, as a group and individually are "attempting" to psychically influence/manipulate.
    Whether they are or not will never be proven using the scientific method but only on the post trauma history of the victim as their deeper mind tries to deal with the assault.
    In other words there maybe "a pattern of mental health issues developing" by the victim after the assault has occurred in her future years. [even this offers no hard evidence and is virtually impossible to assess adequately unless you witnessed the assault "as an assault" in the first instance and even then you are left holding a can of worms with no where to put it.]

    Hence my participation in this thread as the OP is actually recommending and promoting behavior [unintentionally] similar to what I have experienced/witnessed on pubic transport and elsewhere. Behavior that is incredibly unethical and potentially very harmful to the victim.
     
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  7. Lakon Valued Senior Member

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    1,117
    In a more straight forward example, you are aware of the NRL / Tom Waterhouse saga playing out this very moment aren't you ? (for our American friends, a very entrepreneurial bookmaker (gambling establishment) who has recently embedded himself into prime time 1st grade football matches, and is popping up constantly pretending to commentate on the game, and always encouraging viewers, mainly kids and young people, to .. "bet with me on your mobile, now" ! )

    So effective has this been, and so alarming the consequences to young people and an associated increase in gambling, that he’s been curtailed by government authorities.

    That's advertising. He didn't need a secret cabal to intone subliminal messages unto the ether - just a well constructed advertising campaign. And had the issue not been a hyper sensitive one involving kids / gambling, no one would have batted an eyelid, and public behaviour would have been changed as per his objectives - in fact, it was well on the way.

    Strange to say, but I don't think I've ever watched even one episode of Seinfeld, so I don't get the reference, but no big deal.

    Edit - it is the NRL not AFL
     
  8. Lakon Valued Senior Member

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    1,117
    Think of the plausability of what you're saying here. A 'Global secret organisation' rendered imobile a girl on a train. I really haven't a clue who or why. But I'll reserve judgement. But understand, it sounds far fetched.

    OK ..

    Yes - and Jews, Christians, Arabs, Hindus et al, pray. I'm sure many of them beleive it makes an outward difference (as opposed to an inner one, ie, to themselves).

    I agree that any attempt to influence anyone in such a manner without their knowledge and consent is not good.

    Edited last line
     
  9. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,542

    seriously is that what you read.?.. that a global organization rendered a girl immobile? Of course it is far fetched if that is what you have read, but that does not reflect on what was written.

    What happened to the "persons associated with" bit?

    How do you go from persons associated with a Global organization influencing a girl of a train to the Global organization influencing a girl on a train?
    Summarized with two silly and obvious questions/answers:

    Prayer is normally directed towards what non-corporeal entity?

    What happens when prayer is directed to a corporeal person? or group of persons? [ as the Op attempts to suggest has an effect ]
     
  10. Lakon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,117
    An organisation, or company, or corporation is an inanimate object. The Catholic church did not grow legs and burn witches. People in it or associated with it did. All things an organisation does is done by people, emm, in it or associated with it. So 'persons associated with a Global organization influencing a girl of a train' and 'Global organization influencing a girl on a train' is the same thing.

    Moot point I think. Prayer is an appeal to a higher power or medium or a diety to achieve some end.

    Also, I don't think that prayer has an outward effect. I do think that the effect (if any) is purely internal, ie, makes the person praying feel better, have hope, etc.

    Edited 1st paragraph
     
  11. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,542
    It may be to you but it was not what I wrote.
    Being "associated" with is very different to "acting on behalf" of.
    The persons I refer to appeared to have direct associations with a global secret organization.
    How does the above imply that the secret organization is responsible for the actions of it's possibly "wayward" members?
    How does it imply or extend to mean that the organization condones their behavior?
    The persons appear to be taking advantage of what they have learned as a apart of this organization and are applying that skill for their own individual ambitions. Those skills appear to be regarding the use of the "law or attraction" by way of dream insertion, thought insertion and chanting sub-vocalisation techniques.
    I have not in any way implied that the "secret organization" I am referring to is in any way acting with out altruistic intention. I have no evidence to support this either way. However I have witnessed some of their members applying their knowledge on public transport for their own personal interests and ambitions. [Which indicates but only indicates the "possible" nature of that secret organizations teaching and training methods]

    Whilst the secret organization may be acting as a group with altruistic intention, we have already agreed that dream insertion or deliberate psychic influence upon "unwitting" non-consenting" victims is unethical and therefore is contrary to any altruistic intention. [If some such ability actually exists]

    Example:
    A priest of the "Church of Many Souls" [read "fictional cult"] as part of the "Many Souls" organization learns certain prayer techniques that he uses as an agent for the organizations God that allows him to manifest that Gods power with in his own will.
    He is forced by the "rules" of the Church " not to marry and have a family of his own. He is forced to follow the path of the "Brahmacharya" in his pursuit to seek oneness with God.
    He has the power to influence [beyond the statistical norm] his congregation and parishioners for the altruistic humanistic cause of the Church. However he is also aware the ability allows him to get "minors" into bed. So the priest has learned to abuse the teaching of his own church for his own self benefit.
    Is it the Churches responsibility to ensure that what it teaches is adhered to? (yes)
    Can the Church force it's priests into ethical conduct? (nope)
    Can the Church force it's priest into NOT falsely representing it's authority? (nope)

    It is when the organization as a collective voice, decides to cover up and therefore support it's wayward priests that the community is justified in extending the responsibility from individual [priest] to organization [church].

    edited many times
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013
  12. Lakon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,117
    Maybe you should have been more careful to avoid confusion. Earlier you said;

    Seriously though, I have witnessed too many instances of persons attempting to psychically manipulate, that are associated with one particular well known "Global secret organization" to ignore it's plausability

    Note: this does not mean that they are "actually" manipulating" it only means that they, as a group and individually are "attempting" to psychically influence/manipulate.


    Most readers would take that at a reading as meaning the actions of the members were consistent with the 'global secret organisation'.

    If I stole cars using the skills learnt in an NRMA Roadwise course, the judge convicting me would not blame, or even reference the NRMA. We all use the skills we learn in life or in studies, or from been associated with some organisation, every day.

    You need to be more precise in what you say. It seems to me as a reader here, that you've gone from ..

    - Global Secret Organisation exerts psychic influence on the world (or populations), to ..
    - Global Secret Organisation exerted some psychic influence, to ..
    - Global secret organisation associates exerted psychic influence, to ..
    - Global secret organisation associates exerted some psychic influence on a girl on a train, to ..
    - Using something they learnt via a Global secret organisation, some hacks of it exerted some psychic influence on a girl on a train ..

    Honest opinion ? It really sounds like you are vacillating.

    Anyway, let's move on. In post 345 I said;

    Think of the plausability of what you're saying here. A 'Global secret organisation' rendered imobile a girl on a train. I really haven't a clue who or why. But I'll reserve judgement. But understand, it sounds far fetched.

    Following your clarification, I now amend this to ..

    Think of the plausability of what you're saying here. Members of a 'Global secret organisation' (using something they learnt there albeit wrongly) rendered imobile a girl on a train. She could have been merely scared out of her wits at the siight of them. What is your point here, and how does this develope the conversation about your initial comments that Global Secret Organisations psychically infuence the world, or populations, or groups of people (and my refutation of such comments) ?
     
  13. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,542
    Let's look again at my original writing:

    note:
    • Instances of witnessing = plural [too many]
    • No indication over what time period the events were witnessed [ how many years, months]
    • In all instances perpetrators [which are many] appeared to belong or were associated with a well known "Global secret organization" [due to the badges/attire they wore and the station they got of at]
    • There were also many victims [ always girls ] = plural
    • I interviewed a couple of them after their assault. = different girls were interviewed.

    From other experiences with this particular organization I have found that they practice in secret as group or collective behaviors that were indicated or demonstrated by the members on the train. How ever It is not possible to claim that the organization condones the practices of the men in question. [Although I must admit it would not take much evidence to suggest that the organization does indeed condone it especially as it is an "male only" organization]
    ok lets read the original quote again and see how it stacks up:
    Stacks up pretty good as far as I can tell.
    however:
    The quote you refer to is referencing the quote about the underground crypt that may provide evidence of this organizations methods. You have taken it out of context with your complaint about generating confusion.
    see:

    Missing the context:
    So let's read the entire post properly with out missing any bits:

    So where is the confusion?
    I admit there is a element due to the "short speak" writing styles required by the forum.

    It is a bit like Aqueous Id's quote that deliberately took the quote I supplied out of context as an attempt to discredit my posting when neither he nor any one else on the board could answer the simple question about energy in transit universally and why this is not being accommodated in the equations of relevant physics. [note: I am not implying that you have deliberately attempted to discredit but only that it is similar in process]
    see post : #265
    Limitations of the scientific method
    Disingenuous by far...

    What I would like to know is whether or not you understand how it is that you missed the bit about the crypt under a church?
    Are you able to explain?
     
  14. Lakon Valued Senior Member

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    1,117
    I do understand how it is that I missed that bit. Conversation with you more often than not starts on a point and lead off into any number of directions which you seem to think, others should persue with equal imperative. Not so.

    I repeat, I do not believe there are Global Secret organisations manipulating people or populations by psychic forces. Nor do I believe such a thing is neccessary or even possible.

    If you want to talk about evidences of something found in a crypt go right ahead. It is then up to any reader here whether they engage with you in it or not.
     
  15. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,542
    All well and good but this is no excuse for, as it turns out deliberately, taking my writing out of context.
    Whether you wish to believe in what is being said or not is your business and fully acceptable to me. But to attempt to mislead as you have done is not.
    please explain how you arrived at these impressions...are you being psychic perhaps?

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    Are you feeling pressured to respond to something you would rather wish to avoid? If so I apologies as that pressure you may be feeling is unintended.
    I am after all only doing as requested, that is explaining on what basis I have formed the beliefs I have.

    so uhm, what do you want to talk about in a thread that is titled as it is?
    edit:
    Ahhh I know what it is...
    you feel pressured to believe in something that you are not prepared to believe.
    Look,I don't own the truth nor do I create it. Logic and rational can never really discover the truth either, nor can writing rational in a forum.
    It is not my fault that the truth is unacceptable.
    I ask in another thread:
    How much energy is in transit universally at any t=0 and what happens? Zilch, truth is what it is...sorry but I did not create the problem so don't blame me for the pressure to believe in a truth.
     
  16. Lakon Valued Senior Member

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    1,117
    I do not beleive there are secret global organisations exerting psychic influence on people.
     
  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,542
    why?
    No one is asking you to
     
  18. Lakon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,117
    That's what I mean about circular. I have already stated why many times.

    a) No need, as advertising, control by public media etc, etc, does the job. I have elaborated on this earlier and given examples.
    b) There is no evidence that such a thing is possible.
     
  19. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,542
    I am not especially interested in proving any truth here as that is impossible any way, what I am interested in is "sound reasoning"
    I offered a counter and can offer a few more if interested.
    Just because the world is full of deliberate attempts to manipulate via the media etc, doesn't in any way exclude so called "secret organizations" attempting to add to the pot in a surrepticious manner of a kind suggested by the OP.
    Ok is that a good contra or not?




    no evidence that is acceptable to science due to the limitations of the scientific method when dealing with unpredictability and non repeatability. And as you have stated repeatedly "If you had a psychic advantage why the hell would you not keep it a secret." and do what you could to make sure you held a virtual monopoly as well.

    An interesting line of argument regarding our secret organizations.
    "the organization involved is a very old one and dates back probably well before Christ. It currently has in excess of 1 million known members and it has regional and area branches just about every where in the world.
    It was instrumental in the building of Paris, the English succession from Catholicism, the nation of Switzerland, the island of Republic of Mauritius, the French revolution and the development of the USA constitution [ etc?], suffice to say it has had a huge impact on the world generally and yet during all this time with all those millions of members and massive financial turnovers, not once has it's secret charters been revealed to the public, nor it's rituals, ceremonies, nor texts. Not once in over 2000 years has anyone betrayed this organization. It's processes and procedures and rules etc remain as they always have, a secret.

    Does this not strike you as being rather unbelievable for any organization of such a scale and durability not to have a leak somewhere?
    How is it possible for a large organization to control it's members over thousands of years, so thoroughly?

    Do you think?
    leads on to:
    How come science has missed dealing with this obvious issue of energy in transit?
    Or the size of the universe at t=0 duration and so on...
    These are basic and simple to see questions that have not been seen. Why not is all I ask?
     
  20. Lakon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,117
    Aside from the two reasons I gave above, another reason why I do not believe that there secret global organisations exerting psychic influence on people, is that I have seen no evidence of it. I consider myself a very astute observer of human beings. I am prepared to go some way past the strictures of scientific proof, but even so, I've never seen any evidence of it. I have never experienced it. I have never observed anyone close to me experience it. I have never observed a small or large group of people act in a particular manner (or fail to act) and deduced that .. "Hey, they were just influenced by a global secret organisation psychically"

    You may say 'just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it ain't so' but you could say that about pink unicorns too.

    All your talk above about secret societies is no proof of anything thus far. There have been, are, and will be a plethora of secret societies throughout the world vying for any number of objectives by any number of means including some VERY strange ones.
     
  21. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,542
    well answer just one question and we will leave it at that.
    Knowing that the scientists of today are extremely clever, intelligent and thorough people,

    How can they not have an answer to the simple question about "Energy in transit universally at any t=0?"
    How could they have not had to deal with this issue?

    Answer those two questions and then see what how you feel, because I, for not one minute, think that the scientists of today are stupid enough to ignore such a question.
    Rephrase just to be clear:
    Answer those two questions and then see how you feel because I do not believe that the scientists of today are stupid enough to ignore such questions.
    to say "over sight" as an answer is absurd.
    "The key method in mind control techniques especially regarding large numbers of supplicants is to block the ability to ask of themselves specific questions"
     
  22. Lakon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,117
    I can't answer that because I have no idea what you're talking about. Although it sounds quite ponderous, it seems unrelated to this thread and the subject at hand. If there has been some discussion about this elswhere, I might have a look see.

    Leave it at that. Good idea.
     
  23. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,542
    agrees... thanks, you have helped greatly in ways you will probably never fathom as well.
     

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