Sign stolen from Auschwitz found, police say

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Brian Foley, Dec 21, 2009.

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  1. John99 Banned Banned

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    This is a real head scratcher. Did they cut it into three pieces cause the couldnt fit it into their hide out?
     
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  3. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    And if these reminders that incarcerating, starving and killing people for tribalistic affiliations actually worked as they were intended, then there would not be a Gaza.

    So, whats it worth, this sign? To whom? Not to the victims of the Germans, nothing to the victims of the Jewish state.

    Who is learning from its lesson? Lets see some evidence that it works since we claim to be a science forum.

    Who has changed their mind about genocide because there is a museum at Auschwitz?
     
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  5. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    That is not what is intended by them. We've already established that you can't/won't understand what the point is, so why do you keep premising replies to me on such grounds?

    This game where you assign invented positions to people, and then assert your moral superiority to them on those grounds, is equal parts absurd and assinine. Instead, you should just tell me to fuck off. It would honestly express your hostility, avoid fallacies, and probably be a bit empowering.

    Although it won't let you pretend to be morally justified, so I guess that's out.
     
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  7. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I agree that its not meant as a reminder. I don't think the Americans have preserved any of their concentration camps from WWII for posterity or the Japs or the Russians. None that would cause an international stir if a sign went missing.

    Obviously, everyone is quite selective about which atrocities are worth a permanent shrine.
     
  8. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    You'd have to have understood what I think and say, in order to agree or not.

    Instead, you're once again putting words in my mouth. That's both immature and offensive.

    As usual, you think wrong:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manzanar

    Your propensity to argue from your own ignorance is impressive. I'd be embarassed, if I were you. Reasonable adults who expect to be treated with respect typically have the wherewithal to either avoid issues they know nothing about, or spend 10 seconds on Google instead of simply running with convenient supposition.
     
  9. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I bet if the sign at Manzanar disappeared [is there one?] nobody would know what the fuss was about -if there was even one.
     
  10. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Certainly, the Jew-basher crowd here wouldn't make 3 different threads about it every week.

    People who actually care about these sorts of things - including me - would be pretty upset.

    Who cares what all these unspecified weasals think about anything? Would it kill you to deal in what people actually say and think, for once? Or would that be both too difficult and equivocal to satisfy your self-righteousness? This is the sort of ingrate fallacy that even a high-school gym teacher should be able to instruct students in ridiculing.
     
  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Why?

    There is a fresh sign on Gitmo to agonise over and if that one disappears, I'm sure you guys will come up with reasons for a new one.

    Fruitless chin stroking doesn't need a real reason.
     
  12. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    For one, because preservation of historical and natural sites in the Owens Valley/Sierra Nevada is important to me, and that area is subject to considerable encroachment/misuse.

    For another, because its function as a memorial is sacred, and so trespass against it is a dimunition of our national character, insult to Japanese Americans who suffered in the war, etc.

    Not that any adult would need to ask such a question. It's obvious to anyone with a basic grasp of history and culture.

    Adults also have the decency to refrain from irrelevant, unjustified accusations of supporting torture, when dealing with other adults. To wit: fuck you.
     
  13. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Kinda like the trophies that serial killers collect. Something to take out and look at, to relive the moment, in lieu of actually changing the act itself.
     
  14. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Again, "fuck you" is both shorter, more honest, and carries more impact.

    You don't speak for the Japanese. And for somebody who didn't even know this site existed until 5 minutes ago, it's pretty disgusting of you to invoke such authority just to take a dig at somebody's nationality on the internet. The sort of disrespectful, hostile thing that poorly-raised children do, when frustrated in their egomaniacal desires.
     
  15. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    No, not the Japanese, nor the Koreans, Filipinos, Malaysians, or any of the long list of nations invaded and occupied where people were detained without due process and subjected to torture without accountability. Camps upon camps, torture after torture, murder after murder and lets all preserve the sacred sanctity of the old sites so as not to offend those who suffered.

    Meanwhile in the real world:
    Administrative detention, the new word for rendition, which was the new word for concentration camp, continues and is swamped by a search for a sign

    I saw the sign and it opened up my eyes I saw the sign
     
  16. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Leave me out of this.

    The Maori are/were far from wiped out.
    Oh, sure, they've been handed more than their fair shar eof shit over the years, and come upon some really tough times, some of which have been entirely self inflicted.

    But they are far from wiped out (in 2006 there were over 520,000 people claiming maori ethnicity out of the 3,860,000 people that responded to that question).
     
  17. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Right, you derive no moral authority from any of that, and it is overtly offensive to those people for you to pretend otherwise. Possibly even fighting words; certainly I've seen people come to blows for similar presumptions before.

    Anyway, you have enough to worry about with the crimes and injustices of your own nation, for starters. Notice how I've been consistent enough not to reply to you in kind, treating you as an avatar for everything I don't like about whatever groups you happen to belong to?

    Is it so offensive that individuals expect the same respect from you? It's how adults operate, after all.

    I suppose these sorts of derails must have worked well enough for you in the past, given your adamant refusal to abjure them, even when directly challenged to do so. Still, though, it's pretty pathetic.

    But I suppose I should regard it as a good sign when a Jew-basher takes to derailing a Jew-bashing thread, anyway.
     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    That many? Has anyone donated them a state yet? Maybe they need a shrine to invoke some moolah producing guilt. It was interesting to see, in Hotel Rwanda, how the hotelier banked upon his shame inducing tactics to save the few thousand people in Rwanda. A window to the world, you might say

    Yes, its much easier to enshrine the dead. The living can take care of themselves or fuck off.
     
  19. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Was that supposed to be relevant to something, or are you just tossing out stream-of-consciousness moral aspersions now?

    At least you got the phrase "fuck off" in there. Now work on scooping out all the irrelevancies and flights of pretense, and you'll be that much closer to honesty and directness.
     
  20. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    And sometime in there a talking weasel might proclaim you Queen of Morality.

    None of that will have anything to do with me, though.

    And so it makes a pretty bone-headed response to me. I'm not "America," much less "whatever it is that S.A.M. thinks constitutes America."
     
  21. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Who knows? Tomorrow, you may be upset in favour of a shrine in Iraq with a sign over the gate that says, "The Price is Worth it".

    Perhaps in a century, Israelis will weep over a sign over a gate in an ethnically cleansed Palestine, which will read "Never Mind"

    There will never be enough signs, unfortunately to actually make people care about living victims. The dead are so much more profit making. Or prophet making.

    You'll make movies where the victims will be a backdrop to your suffering from your pangs of conscience, they will float, nameless in the background as you weep for your humanity and preserve historic sites for posterity.
     
  22. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    I'm sorry S.A.M.
    But this is bordering on pathetic.
    1. They may have been displaced, and had their land stolen, but they were never forced out of the country.
    2. There was a treaty signed, and as a result of that we now have the Waitangi Claims Tribunal (est 1975) as a result of the Treaty of Waitangi, and are being awarded reperations.
    3. There is a national holiday, ostensibly to commemerate the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi, during which all of these things are remembered, and there are, in fact, memorials for remembering the New Zealand Land Wars.
    4. As I recall, there have always been, even during the worst of it Marae (fashionability of having maori ancestory, or being maori in an urban environment is a whole other story).
     
  23. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Or maybe both parties will be able to get past the racism and hatred and actually negotiate a settlement.
     
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