Should We Respect Religion?

Is that supposed to be funny? I suppose there's some motive for teachers who manipulate any fact they want?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

No Civilization has yet arisen without the foundations of Religious Institutions, and Civilizations have Health and Longevity only in proportion to the vitality of their Religious Institutions.

The decay of Religious Institutions within a Civilization are ALWAYS prelude to the Civilization's collapse.

so it is that Religion is effectively synonomous with Civilization, and Non-Religion and Atheism with Dark Ages and Social Chaos.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Leo Volont:

How then do you reconcile the rise of Christianity with the Dark Ages of Europe?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Dunno what planet you're living on, but secular countries seem to be doing quite well. Western Europe has high rates of atheism and is probably the most stable region in the entire world.

 

well, Jesus was crucified.

A God created the universe or others would state that it arose naturally. You don't have to teach witchcraft to communicate to children these two beliefs.

I have seen them. They were intended to be offensive, IMO.

 

no

subjective presentation of current scientific understanding.

 

Pleas share a current example if you would be so kind. Let us discuss it rationally.

 

No. We believe in free speech while they believe in their religious dogma. Limiting free speech would be against our own beliefs.

Moderate free speech to what extent exactly? In the case of Islam, wouldn't we have to implement Sharia for that? If you look at what happened in Denmark, where they basically got offended for not following their religious dogma.

 

The Dark Ages was the Fall of the Pagan Roman Empire.

What brought Europe OUT of the Dark Ages and into the High Middle Ages -- the France of a Thousand Cathedrals -- the Only Civilization able to defend against the Mongol Conquest -- all this came from the Institutions of the Catholic Church, both those of the Secular Clergy -- the Bishops and the Priests (with their corruption that would eventually bring it all down), but a great deal is owed to the Religious Orders. All of the most Influential Saints were from the Religious Orders. They promoted learning, they cleared the land, improved the roads, opened up mail and lines of ommunication, and offered defensive positions against the invading Barbarians that continued to plague Europe all through the 8th, 9th, and 10th Centuries.

They created a relatively resilient Civilization. Given its death blow at the Treaty of Westphalia, we are still living today in what is a Collapsing Catholic Civilization. All of our Morals, and most of our Legal Systems stem from those of the Catholic Administrations. Our University Systems -- Catholic. Everything that is destroying us and bringing us down are the non-Catholic Elements that have been imposed upon us by the Barbarians who won the Anti-Civilization Wars of the 16th Century.

 

if a scientist posited a theory that was complete unfounded, and untestable, he would be lampooned ridiculed, and laughed at.
this is a science forum with a religious subforum, it was put there to discuss the science aspect of religion( an impossiblity at best), however some believe it's a place to witness to the multitude.
hence why there seems to be disrespect, but who is being disrespectful, being witnessed too is extremely rude, dont you think.

 

then it would be appreciated if you kept it to yourself, why bother others with your fantasies.

dont we teach our children facts not fiction, if god creating the universe had some factual base then I would agree whole heartedly.

sticks and stones, turn the other cheek, come to mind.
has'nt god and religion got strong shoulders, are they that weak.

 

This is the example of disresepct - you are opening with base assumptions that thesitic notions are completely unfounded and untestable - its practically the same as saying, "Now before we discuss things I just want to let you know that there is no basis for what you are saying and it is all completely unverifiable" - you are entitled to have opinions but a person but tact determines the proper method or circumstances to broadcast them

The science aspect of religion is the same as any other science - application - if you are not prepared to undergo any of th e applications, and if you immediately discredit anyone who has undergone them (perhaps due to having a lack of knowledge about what constitutes a proper from an improper application) then its really just an issue of ego.

admittedly there are some crackpots that take up the cause of theism on this site, but their contributions are usually sporadic and don't warrant anything more than comic humour - there are others however who may display witnessing as a response to disrespect as indicated above

 

The World Wars seemed Stable to you?

Now Europe is being overrun by Islam. Will the Natives agree peacefully to become minorities in their own Lands?

France experienced riots last year. What about this year?

Neo-Nazism is on the rise in Germany.

But, yes, I agree that Europe on the whole seems to have had the 'fight' knocked out of them. they are tired of War.

But we also need to remember that since Europe was the CENTER of Catholic Civilization, it is almost a misnomer to call them "Secular", as the Traditions and Customs still flow out of Catholic Morality and Values. This can best be seen in Europe's Socialist Leanings. However, the Conservative Protestant Influence is in places more than equally strong, and Europe may yet collapse because of advancing Concentration of Wealth on one side and increasing Unemployment on the other.

But, yes, if pressed on the issue, I would say that Europe has a better chance of survival than America. If Civilization would collapse tomorrow, America has no memory of Civilized Values to fall back on. Europe, though, well remembers the Monastic Ideals and the Tradition of Saints. America remembers only Wars and the Wild West. Yeah, that will help. they'll all kill each other off in gun fights and Bunker Hills.

 

Perhaps. But all of their rules, laws and the very foundations of their society was established thousands of years ago based on religious beliefs and doctrine. Yet you don't give that any credit whatsoever?

Baron Max

 

You think Americans can't read history as well as Europeans? ...LOL!

The Europeans of today don't have any "memory" of the happenings in Europe any more than Americans do. Europeans base their "memories" on the history books just like the Americans do.

Your statement is nothing but foolishness ...at best.

Baron Max

 

Actually, most Americans probably can't read history better than Europeans. Our public education system is an embarrassment. But what I think Leo was getting at is not knowledge of history but cultural memory. Europe's first civilizations came millenia before the United States were even born. Current Western civilization was born in Europe, and there it is still much older than America. Our country is still in the process of maturation; were society to collapse, we would lack the strong customs and traditions that would allow us to hold on for long.

The entire civilization is beginning its decline, anyway. The religion and traditional family values being abandoned today in the name of progress are signs of a strong civilization. Western culture has always been individualistic, but recently that individualism has become so prominent as to tear away at the foundations of society. The ritual aspects of religion and the state bind citizens together in an immersive common culture; the basic unit of society has always been the family. When we put ourselves first and our families and countries and churches second, they all lose their power and thus their effect. We will eventually be too self-centered and materialistic, disconnected from each other, to function properly when climate change or some other extenuating circumstance leads to a complete collapse of society. Famine, mass migration, and war will affect the world's centers of population and food production if it's climate change, for example, and that there -- the abandonment of cities -- can be taken
as a signal that civilization is in its death throes.

 

That is never going to happen again within Europe. One nation who would be tempted to ruin the order, would then have to face a nuclear threat from the international community. The World Wars were a big lesson.

I guess that just shows the dangers religion has to a free democratic society. Perhaps in the far future they might override the secular democracy we have today just like the Christians did in America.

Nobody gets their morals from any religion. People take accepted morals of the day, and some people then apply them to their religion. Catholic morals of centuries ago would shock and appall. Morals have taken a leap forward in conjunction with the decline of religious influence in Europe.

Yes, and we've had a tough job kicking religion out of power so we can actually progress as a peaceful and rational society. I can't give religion any credit, since when they had their go at power, they used it to go on crusades and persecute anybody who attempted to contradict their irrational teachings.

 

Universal sufferage and a written constitution was given religous acknowledgement eventually, but they were originally monarchies. A monarchy is the form of government that is most supported by the Bible.

 

If you had gone to school and studied science, you'd know that to be complete bs based simply on the fact that students conduct experiments themselves.

 

"Each famous author of antiquity whom I recover places a new offence and another cause of dishonour to the charge of earlier generations, who, not satisfied with their own disgraceful barrenness, permitted the fruit of other minds, and the writings that their ancestors had produced by toil and application, to perish through insufferable neglect. Although they had nothing of their own to hand down to those who were to come after, they robbed posterity of its ancestral heritage."—Petrarch