Should the Western World militarize for China?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Beer w/Straw, Mar 24, 2021.

  1. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    There were plenty of citizens who were better off under Mao, and at least they had some basic rights. Xi is only bringing benefits to the Chinese upper and middle classes, the rest are fodder like it was in the English Industrial Revolution.

    Chinese factories produce several times as much CO2 and other forms of pollution per unit of production as compared to the Western factories they replace. China actually has real slaves too in addition to the virtual economic slaves, the situation in Xinjiang is as bad as it was in the US Confederacy.

    I don't think you have any way of having a fucking clue what I want. I want the pollution cut, the labour to be fairly compensated, and the profits to go to people who aren't interested in violently taking over the world just to try and prove that their ancestors weren't really a bunch of weak moronic tards.

    Like I say, the US already had the largest and strongest economy in the world well before the bombs started falling, WW2 just accelerated the lead that was already building. In the long run, giving rights to your population and emphasizing profitable scientific pursuits pays off.
     
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  3. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    while making political partys declaring their hate for socialism
    but moving their entire business there and employing them to make their Chinese products sold as American products
    and then claiming they didn't actually do that because the free market made them do it

    then they get their American political party they made to take working class taxes off the american working class and spend it on them instead
    and claim that socialism is evil and no good and so social services should not be funded by working class taxes
    and then claim the government they built is too big

    real honest people

    while they blame china for ruining American consumer society

    BBC separated children in cages USA

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    USA mexico border

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    ah huh
    tell me more

    https://www.air.org/center/national-center-family-homelessness
    A staggering 2.5 million children are now homeless each year in America. This historic high represents one in every 30 children in the United States.

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States

    you can fake it by calling it liberty if you like
    if that makes you believe your own lies
    does that make you feel better ?

    the great wall of china that has been in place for thousands of years
    and TRUMP tried to build his own on the mexico border
    has been turned into a processing city with work food and resources by the Chinese
    making it an envy of the usa mexico border crisis.

    now some americans driven purely by monetary profit are labeling goods mad as slave products
    when they support & endorse slave wage rates for mexicans who pick ad process their agricultural food
    these essential mexican workers cant afford education or health care
    and these same americans want to exploit their poverty to use as a swap meet card game with china western border.
    immoral

    remember all those schools chanting "build that wall" at other teams
    its a common american value

    americans who own factories in china
    denying americans their own jobs
    then selling the chinese made products back to americans who cant afford them
    ar playing product wars using the Uighur as an excuse
    not interested in human rights
    homelessness or minimum wage
    just interested in smashing a new competitor

    they are all muslims
    what Muslim american political party is there in the usa ?

    fake morals
    fake values
    being manipulated for profit
    exploiting anyone to do so

    underneath it is a core value
    money before people
    where as some other countrys place people before money
    thats the real difference

    there are some very well intentioned well balanced people supporting human rights advocacy
    but the cancel culture towards brands is mostly all driven by rich elites playing free market games for their own American factories in china or Asia
    im not going to name any because they will instantly be targeted by those americans
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Not sure if this is an accurate evaluation, but if these points are factual, China is not doing too badly in view that it has some 18.5% of the total world population.
    https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/china-population/#

    ANCIENT CHINA - MODERN CHINA

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    Social Organisation, Similarities:
    Differences:
    Better Off or Worse Off?
    https://ancient-china-life-and-history.weebly.com/comparison-ancient-china---modern-china.html
     
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    How China is Winning Its Battle Against Air Pollution
    BY FELIX LEUNGASIAAUG 14TH 2019

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    National air pollution action plans devised by China have seen significant reductions in pollution levels and associated health risks.
    https://earth.org/how-china-is-winning-its-battle-against-air-pollution/#

    We can ask what the US has done lately..??????
     
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  8. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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  9. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    Firstly, in Xinjiang it's orders of magnitude worse. Not just temporarily separated from families, the families are thoroughly destroyed at the roots. Secondly, if a journalist got caught taking pictures like this in China, they'd be shot. BBC filmed a documentary on the concentration camps in Xinjiang and they observed from satellite photos how the "show camp" they visited was transformed from a prison into more of a boarding school for the cameras right before the BBC film crew arrived. Thirdly, you're comparing how the US treats foreign nationals to how China treats its own citizens.
     
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Nothing that China does is irrelevant. You do realize that the population in that country is almost 4.5 times the size of the US, which means they have to deal with 4.5 times the social problems than the US in every way imaginable.
    Such as States deliberately making laws keeping millions of underprivileged US citizens from voting?
    What happened to the "right" to vote as guaranteed by the Constitution?

    Haven't heard that one from China, have you?

    IMO, you may be mistaken in the belief that the US is a good and just democracy in practice, even as it is in theory. It isn't . Many white people are afraid that, when they become the minority, they will be subjugated to becoming slaves, as they have tried to do to the minorities the last 250 years.
    I know this to be true, as a former boss of mine actually said that to me once.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2021
  11. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    What's irrelevant is the way you compare the scale of their problems and social abuses to those occurring in the US, as if they're almost equal.

    There's no law against American citizens over 18 voting unless they've been convicted of felonies. What does happen is that laws are passed which conveniently make it inconvenient for voters opposed to the white establishment to vote in areas where they represent clear majorities. I don't agree with either practise but it's still not comparable to what happens in China, where the right to vote for top political positions simply doesn't exist. Moral relativism will kill global civilization if you keep using it as an excuse to ignore the worst and most festering problems.

    I never said the US was a good and just democracy nor denied that it has established miscreants looking to create problems. What I said is that there's no comparison to be made between anything that's happened in the US in the last 150 years as compared to the scale of the human rights abuses and imperialist territorial demands currently emanating from China. It's in the interests of every Western country to cease all trade, cooperation and information exchanges with China and all of its intermediaries, or you'll be paying for it with WW3 within a few decades at the latest.
     
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    18,009
    How do you know all this? I love living in the US, but I am not about to throw dirt in somebody else's backyard. We have plenty to do here, after all the damage done by Trump, who should never have been able to get elected, only to issue a tax cut (benefitting only the rich) to the tune of a trillion dollars as his first act as president, and allow some 100,000 to die from Covid due to complete inaction and instead recommending drinking some bleach to disinfect your insides!
     
  13. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    6,383
    Relocating your core national industries to China while letting them help themselves to your buffet of intellectual property with minimal consequences sounds like a recipe for making all of your problems even worse. I agree there is plenty that needs to be done to fix the social order in the US; making yourselves economically dependent on fascists like Xi Jinping while financing his military buildup isn't a good way to start.
     
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Whatever advantage China is exercising, it's due to US greed and lack of national pride. China knows how to take advantage. Do you blame them? They have come a long way from the old dynasties.

    There infrastructure for their industries is superior to our aging and crumbling infrastructure. Why do you think Biden is investing heavily in infrastructure, it provides jobs and aids industry, and when that hapens the economy thrives. Hence the stock market is stronger than ever. It's about time, we have been living a life of luxury, without returning much to our social and industrial infrastructure.
     
  15. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    Wrong, most of China consists of undeveloped countryside and slums, dotted by the occasional wealth investment here and there. The developed part they show to the world on TV only consists of the coastal regions and a small fraction of the total population. It doesn't matter how many highways and schools Biden builds, and for a nation of America's size, a few hundred billion dollars is peanuts. As long as American labour has to compete on the same market terms as Chinese slave labour and people with no basic human rights or pollution standards, it will lose out every time.
     
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    That is not a given. Just don't buy their products. That solves all problems associated with slave labor. Pay American labor a decent wage and they don't need to shop for cheaper goods.
    Competing with very poor or communist countries is a race to the bottom that NEVER benefits labor. Providing tax cuts to very rich people NEVER benefits poor people. What you are tacitly conceding is that the US can no longer be self sufficient and that is a defeatist concept, IMO.
     
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Well, regardless if vast parts of China are undeveloped, the developed areas are doing pretty good according to this:
    https://thediplomat.com/2018/08/understanding-chinas-technological-rise/#
     
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  18. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

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    I have a really, really, really, really strange answer on this topic that is so strange that I am going to send it to you as a personal message so that you can suggest to me if you would want me to past my suggestion into your discussion or not??????
     
  19. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Uh, do whatever you want.
     
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  20. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    6,383
    I agree that certain sectors are thriving in China at the moment, although a lot of their technology was stolen from Western countries- Huawei basically raped Nortel for years and now literally owns their old research facility in Ontario after stealing everything that came out of it previously for free.

    Anyhow that has nothing to do with human rights and outsourcing labour and pollution to countries where people get shot just for trying to put those issues on the map. The whole point is we need to stop feeding this dragon and helping to empower the fascists who run it, and we need fair market conditions that take labour standards and pollution into account rather than outsourcing everything to the lowest common denominator.
     
  21. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    6,383
    As a Canadian I don't even care whether China's intimidated by anything we do or not. I just want our activities to stop working to the benefit of fascists in other parts of the world, even if we have to take a huge economic hit to distance ourselves. Canadian citizens and companies shouldn't be allowed let alone encouraged to invest in dictatorships, we shouldn't be buying or selling anything with them let alone weapons (like the ones we just recently sold to Saudi Arabia right after they chopped up Khashoggi), and we shouldn't be doing business with any countries that intentionally or unintentionally assist dictatorships in sidestepping these constraints.

    Someone needs to stand up and set an example for the free world, right now all Western leaders are focused solely on maximal short-term benefits at minimal short-term costs. The people who need to be intimidated are our fellow Western trade partners and corporations, not the evil alien overlord ruling from Beijing.
     
  22. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,098
    <------ain't never been to China
    ...........................................................................................

    circa 1967
    I was summoned to the battalion commander's office and told that I had a bad attitude because I did not think that going to war with China was anything worth cheering about.

    (and the really scary part was that out of the 1500 of us, 1495 were cheering the idea of going to war with China------)

    at least, while waiting to see the commander, I had the opportunity to meet the 4 others with enough intelligence to have the same "bad attitudes". (how refreshing)
     
  23. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    6,383
    The best way to avoid war with China is to start by not trading with them and financing their war machine.
     

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