Should the U.S. troops leave afghanistan ?.

Elections are always a "problem" for "liberators"

Even the erstwhile Karzai seems to be going on a tangent to American aspirations

 

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ABC has been a reliable conduit for US government war propaganda for many years. You know that.

Do we really need to go back and consider the taking and using of polls of Iraqis, polls of Vietnamese, during those respective wars? Can't we just learn these lessons once?

 

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That was a real war, this thing in afganifuck is an expensive CIA hide and go seek.

 

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That's only because we chose to do it that way. If I'd been in charge, things would have been just one helluva lot different, believe me!!

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Baron Max

 

It is a well known fact that the The Administration and the media sleep in the same bed when it comes to wars propaganda and deception .

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President Hamid Karzai is picked by the US to protect the US interests .
Do we really call a puppet a president to start with ?.
:wallbang: .

 

Strategically it's a good place to have military bases to maintain control over China. With bases in Afghanistan, Korea and Okinawa we're the boss. That's the main point. BUT, I personally think we should work hard to get off oil and make bilateral agreement with China for what common interests this planet holds for our two great nations. What does China want? Need? How can these be met through agreements with the USA? China does have a claim over Afghanistan, I mean, it used to have control over that land, at one time, and honestly, as the world shrinks, well, it may be time again to rethink boarders. Chinese need land. Afghanistan would do well to invite as many Chinese into their country as want to move. It would do wonders for their economy. Helping both people. China gets more land and resources and Afghanistan gets security and a much improved living standard and high education. Much better than being heroin drug pushers that they are now anyway.

Win Win

 

Yeah I can just see the fiercely independent Pashtuns under the centralised Chinese Rule. Anyone ever wonder why the Chinese don't expand in the direction of Afghanistan? They'd probably find their entire population adopting the Jirga system.

 

Well firstly Japan and Germany were civilized first world nations. If you went 1000 years back into history, they were still technologically more advanced than Afghanistan. After the war WE were the ones learning from the Germans! The Japanese built larger warships then us!

See the difference?

Secondly, to mold someone into your image you must pound this fight out of them. Hard. Afghan people do not deserve this. Just leave them with their huts and their herds.

I promise you, it's only a matter of time before one of the larger nations swallows them up anyway. That's a simple fact of history.

 

History suggests it's China that does the swallowing.

Anyway, it's a simple matter of logistics. China has BILLIONS of people. They are growing millions of new people every day. The entire population of Afghanistan is turned over in China every month or so. China will need land. They need it. Afghanistan has that land.

Deals can and will be made with a rich and powerful China. There's no doubt in my mind. Warlords will sell out.


The exact same thing is happening in Africa. Saudi's are buying large chucks of land they need to farm. Money talks.

Anyway, it only makes sense.

 

1 : It is good to have military bases in Afghanistan to maintain control over China....these are your STUPID words here . Hahaha...!!!.
You make it sound that the world is a jungle with no laws whereas the big fish eat the small fish . Shame on you to think like that !!!. 2 : You are the boss in people's sovereign nations and that means you are a tyrant and a bully with no justice attached to you . 3 : China did not invade Afghanistan but both the US and Russia did .:wallbang::wallbang:

 

Living in fantasies is a bliss .
Ignorance is a disaster .
China, Saudis, afghanistan...?.....:shrug::shrug:.

 

Many Taliban are Afghans, to be sure. The Taliban are much better organized and equipped than most Afghan warlord groups, since they defeated many of them during the civil war which followed the pullout of the USSR (it wasn't the Taliban that defeated the Russians as they hadn't formed yet). There just isn't anyone left to oppose them.

How do you know what they asked for?

I could ask you the same question. Where will your arrogant self-righteousness be when the fundamentalist Islamists are in power? Will you show the same outrage at the ethnic cleansing and public executions?

 

So after seven years of training and a fortune in equipment etc, air support and satellite intelligence and fancy weaponry and all that, the US allies are still badly disorganized and poorly equipped compared with a bunch of cave-dwelling tribal guerrillas from the same basic people.

How does that happen?

Speaking for myself, I will show more outrage at the probable Taliban behavior than most US apologists have shown at similar behavior among the US allies in neighboring Central Asian countries such as Uzbekistan.

And that is in spite of the fact that outrage at the behavior of US allies has some point to it - it's outrage that can have an effect. Maybe that's why it seems to be discouraged or deflected away from the major media's concerns.

 

I was only talking about warlords, the only non-governmental forces remotely capable of resisting the Taliban.

 

I see things differently :
1 : The Taliban have no power . If you compare the total deaths of the Afghans to those of the US and their allies ; it is like nothing for the latter .
2 : Millions of Afghans refugees scattered in Iran, Pakistan and other countries as well .
3 : The western media are supportive of both wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and they are a willing participant in the propaganda machine of lies and manupilation .
4 : According to many reports, both Bin Laden and his deputy were killed in 2001 in Afghanistan and all the videos attributed to them are made by the C.I.A. and MOSSAD for propaganda purposes .
5 : Afghanistan is a very poor country and people are happy to have enough bread and enough water . So kidding ourselves does not hide the truth .
6 : The notion of foreign fighters is created by the US to put pressure on other nations to help them occupy and rule other nations .

 

This is bullshit, and the list of things you get wrong, don't know or refuse to acknowledge about the history of Afghanistan and the conflict there now runs several posts in multiple threads.

The Afghans were fighting the Russians long before we showed up and the begged for US weapons. In fact, they initially balked at what Carter was dedicating to the program. This is all dramatized rather well in the film Charlie Wilson's War, which I mention only because you seem incapable of reading the best available books -- that I recommended numerous times to you.

It's bold, displaying ignorance as often as you do, to run about calling people "gullible," but so you do. I believe the poll because I have no reason to doubt it and because, having read through its methodology and checked the results with what I know from friends on the ground there, I find it matches up with my own anecdotal evidence.

In other words, I have no reason right now to disbelieve, but you are free to try to post something that will convince me to do so. Only, consider that it will take more than name-calling and illustrations. You will actually have to provide some substance.

So you say something and it's so, right?

Oh, wait.

Wrong.

As usual, it's just your bullshit opinion, and in this case, on its face it's just plain dumb. For starters, your buddy Hype has been citing certain parts of the same poll. Didn't see you bitch then. Haven't seen you actually bitch the several other times I posted the poll, it's only now, when you've been cornered that you attack it. This is the old game of yours. And you can say what you like about ABC, but how do you account for BBC, that old propaganda machine for the US, right? And did you even bother to read the methodology, explained in the links I provided, are you just dismissing the poll because I cited it, it made you look dumb and it undermines your preordained worldview? I think I know the answer.

 

Before the US and its allies started the war in Afghanistan, the Taliban were fighting the Western alliance for power and control of the nation . General Massoud did not want the US there and he was killed by....ghosts...I suppose...

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There's still much latent desperation within the inertial center of US culture, to regress into a new cold war. But China is not competing (and never will) with the USA militarily (or ideologically) as the Soviet Union did. They will not make those now-obvious mistakes. A larger lesson in history / historical trends is that martial empire is no longer feasible here in the dawn of an unprecedented information-access age, and here late in the sunset of the Industrial "Revolution" (centralization of production). Those who consider Afghanistan from a Sino-US cold-war perspective are at least a century behind a look around from the perspective of present reality. China will do just fine anywhere the US intervenes militarily- without rattling a silo, and without public comment. The reality has changed.

 

I predict there will never be a war between China and the US as the price is too high on both sides of the equation . The fact that NATO follows the US in its colony endeavours is a gross injustice towards their own peoples and towards the occupied nations .
In the past few days some Canadian and French troops were killed in Afghanistan and the question is : what did they die for ?. They died there because their political morons back home wanted to kiss the ass of uncle Sam in Washington ! .

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