Should the U.S. troops leave afghanistan ?.

Discussion in 'World Events' started by mike47, Jul 31, 2009.

?

Do you think the U.S. should pull off Afghanistan ?.

  1. Yes

    33 vote(s)
    57.9%
  2. No

    24 vote(s)
    42.1%
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  1. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    Alas, a dedicated glutton may eventually consume itself, wither away and become waste to fertilize new growth ... yet, perhaps we can find dignity and courage in this new season.
     
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  3. thinking Banned Banned

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    if the US pulled out of Afganistan , without a conclusive win , what would be the psychological implications to the taliban though ?
     
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  5. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    The Taliban were the legitimate government of Afghanistan before the invasion. The occupation has vastly increased their support base, so the most likely outcome would be the re emergence of the Taliban as the de facto government, perhaps with a power sharing element.
     
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  7. thinking Banned Banned

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    so the people of Afghanistan recognise the taliban as a legitimate now , after killing and threatening so many of their people ?
     
  8. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    You talk as if the Taliban are foreigners and not Afghans. Historically, and today still, when faced with foreign invaders, the people of Afghanistan fight as one. The Taliban controls 80% of Afghanistan (map) and once the invaders have left, as they eventually will, there is no opposition to the extent of Taliban control. Karzai is a puppet who as we can see from the recent electoral fraud he had to perpetrate to gain a majority vote, is in no way representative of the Afghan people.
     
  9. thinking Banned Banned

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    no I talk of the behaviour of the taliban towards Afghans
     
  10. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    Can you expand on this?
     
  11. countezero Registered Senior Member

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    5,590
    We DO have a clear case. Christ, do you have any idea what you're talking about? The Pakistanis did little or nothing with regard to the Taliban for years, despite your erroneous claims of the effects of "pressure." The Pakistanis surrendered the NW province and the SWAT to the Talibs and the Talibs propmptly struck out for more territory and attacked Islamabad. The Pakistanis are fighting a HUGE offensive there now, precisely because they have finally realized you can't bargain with the Taliban.

    Bullshit. Violence in Pakistan began growing well before the drone attacks began to proliferate. Hence, the reason the Pakistanis decided to move.

    Meanwhile, you quote socialist websites to people and expect your allegations to be taken seriously? You help make this thread a joke.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2009
  12. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

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    6,706
    We won, lets go home and celebrate. The taliban are the kinds of people whom want us out, 99% of them would just go back to living their normal lives.
     
  13. StrawDog disseminated primatemaia Valued Senior Member

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    The reason nothing was done, was that nothing needed to be done, there was no major problem with the Taliban. Until the US started cross border attacks that inflamed all Pakistanis, and which enabled the Taliban to expand its support base. (ex) I have covered the time frame regarding escalation of Taliban activities before. The problem started after the US started lobbing drones over with no regard for consistent collateral damage. All these across border attacks are of course illegal under international law, not that the US concerns itself about that.
    IMO the correlation is clear.
    To which site and article that affronts your sensitivities are you referring?
     
  14. mike47 Banned Banned

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    Agreed .
    There is no need for the US and NATO armed forces to be stationed in Afghanistan . A sovereign nation must be respected as such .
     
  15. thinking Banned Banned

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    1,504
    " we " won what , exactly ?


    ah I see , so the taliban are Afghans , although the Afghans don't really want the talibans there

    hmmm....
     
  16. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

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    Yes the Taliban in Afghanistan are Afghans or more precisely Afghani Pashtuns. Saying that Afghans don't like the Taliban is like saying that Americans don't like Christian conservative Republicans. We make not like Christian conservative Republicans but if Americans had to choose between supporting Christian conservative Republicans or supporting being governed by Bernie Maddoff backed by a Chinese Army, most Americans would either mind their own business and stay out of the conflict of they would support the Christian conservative Republicans against Bernie Maddoff and the Chinese.

    Just because we won't tell the Chinese soldiers to their faces that we want them out of America would not mean that we did not want the Chinese soldiers out of America.

    I saw a guy on PBS yesterday I think. This American guy traveled across Afghanistan of foot or by hitchhiking and he stayed with unknown local regular people each night. He says that Afghans don't particularly like the Taliban but they want the Taliban to win. He says the Taliban are local to each village while the police tend to be people who come from other places and only show up once and a while. He says that overwhelmingly the biggest issue in Afghanistan is banditry. Anybody who stops banditry gets the approval of the Afghan people. He says that the police who work for the government are nasty and are often bandits and are largely useless at stopping bandits. The Taliban during their rule before 9-11 were known for doing one good thing and that was that the Taliban stopped banditry. This expectation that the Taliban will do a better job of stopping banditry is the source of the begrudging support for the Taliban.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2009
  17. thinking Banned Banned

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    righttttt.......

    who knew ? I mean really , who knew ..........
     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Anyone who actually watched the news. If you have al Jazeera you can listen to the interviews with local Afghans. And hear what they have to say:

    for example:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCCYJwLw3ik
     
  19. thinking Banned Banned

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    I see their point , Afghans , Americans over reacting and therefore killing civilians , who would want this ? I have no wonder that Afghans are angry

    and this was several months ago and the US acknowledged this

    and has tried to correct this and has used less air support

    and we all know that the taliban use civilans as a shield

    this does NOT mean that the Afghans want the taliban to rule their country however
     
  20. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Thats one video I have bookmarked, but its not an unusual one. These reports are regular and similar and have been for the last seven years. Civilian deaths are a major issue with American invasions and have always been. What would Americans want if they were at the receiving end? For such people to stay, go or simply die?
     
  21. thinking Banned Banned

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    1,504
    the same

    but if the US left , and the taliban had there way , then what ? thats the thing

    if the US , could get their act together , and the strategy has changed , what then ?

    the truth is , had the US been better at strategy , and the taliban had not used citizens as a shield , the attitude by the Afghans would be very much different
     
  22. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

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    Presumably the Taliban would behave the same way that they did last time they had power. A no Al Qaeda allowed policy would have to be negotiated but that could probably be worked out.

    Maybe a "don't try conquering the other ethnicities" agreement could be worked out. The Taliban know they can't defeat the other ethnicities if the other ethnicities have US Air support. That was proven by the Northern Alliance.

    As far as US concern for feminism around the globe, no such concern was evident prior to 9-11 and furthermore feminism imposed from the outside by force is unlikely to be successful. I am sorry that women will be under men's thumbs if the Taliban wins. Women are not all that liberated under the semi-existent Karzai government so they won't lose that much. At least if the Taliban wins women won't be raped as much by anybody other than their husbands.
     
  23. mike47 Banned Banned

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    In the news right now, 14 Americans died in choppers crash in Afghanistan .
    The casualties are increasing . What a waste of lives and money !!!.
    While G.W. Bush is making tons of money giving ridiculous speeches to the morons of the world you have Americans dying in Iraq and Afghanistan for his imperialistic craziness pushed and instigated by the neo cons .
     
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