Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Betrayer0fHope, Dec 1, 2008.
Yup, I bet you will. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
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Hmm... I'm not sure what to make of that.
But anyway, what tactics would you suggest? I don't want my kids to believe what I believe... I want them to believe what is true.
If you don't work from the assumption that you're right about everything, how do you take on the awfully weighty responsibility of educating your children?
(I'm genuinely interested, Sam. I'm not as bitter as some. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!)
How do you distinguish between what you believe and what is true?
You can know one, but not the other. The goal is to have a strong correlation... but you can never be sure how well you're doing!
What I'm interested in is tactics.
Like it or not, I have a responsibility to my children. What should I do to give them the best chance of a high correlation between what they believe to be true, and what is actually true?
In my experience, children begin by thinking their parents are right about everything, grow up to think their parents are clueless and depending on the relationship, either revert to their parents way of thinking or reject everything about it [but still become their parents]. Religion, I think, is something that children learn or not depending on what the parents are like, rather than what they teach.
In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with children being brought up in a certain way, after all where else am I gonna celebrate Eid, for instance, if not with my kids? But there is nothing wrong with letting them learn other ways of thinking, go for Christmas parties or pujas or mass. To me, its like language, you speak one at home, but its not necessarily what you learn in school or speak at work. I think the emphasis on "should you teach your child to be theist/atheist" is the wrong question. I think you should bring up your kids the way you think is best for them and let them have all the experiences that are available about how other people live and think.
The above has a kind of 'truth is contained in propositions in the brain that mirror reality'. But propostions do things. Thinking of them as containers that mirror reality, apart from the philosophical problems with this, certainly misses what truths do.
So you have these kids and the same truth (theoretical) in two kids may do different things.
You've got these creatures coming into the world, and the best thing is if they have beliefs that work well for them. Propositions in their minds that create a nice, dynamic interaction with life that works, for them, as individuals.
I mean, for example, you might think it determinism is true, mechanistic conceptions of the human brain are correct and one kid finds this fascinating becomes a neroscientist - never for a second brooding over the potential or necessary lack of free will - and tinkers with nervous systems and rat brains and just loves his life. Then you might have another kid who this belief makes feel bad.
To me a more constructivist, let's get the kid to bloom approach is more respectful.
This does not mean testing out a variety of beliefs one does and does not have on kids and seeing where they bloom, but getting out of the way of their forming beliefs, where possible. I mean you state yours, of course, on occasion. And a parent pretty much has to be a fascist about certain things. But one can base this on authority and not truth. "I know you disagree with me, and perhaps you are right, but you must do what I say in this instance." Not that this has to be uttered. I think the attitude can come across.
You do not make it your job to get in their heads until they see the light on all issues.
If they like playing on train tracks, OK, get in there and insert some axioms. But most of life and the beliefs associated with actions and attitudes can be more flexible.
It's ok to let your children know that you don't know everything, and that uncertainty is part of being a human, and that there is no absolute right and wrong, and that we need to acquire perspective before making decisions... isn't it?
Depends. Most children especially at very young ages, expect their parents to have all the answers. If you answer your childrens questions with "I don't know" all the time, they'll think you don't know anything and look for answers elsewhere. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
That said, I think its important to be honest with your kids, otherwise they'll never trust you.
Like religion, for example, which answers all questions with, "God did it."
How can you be honest with your kids if you indoctrinate them into your religion?
If you understand God to be a concept, or idea, which develops in the mind via word of mouth, then you have a point. But if God is the Supreme Spiritual Being, then for all you know the infant could know beyond doubt God exists, becoming more atheistic as it percieves the world.
It all depends on whether or not God exists.
You're reasoning is only an extention of your world view.
I think one would do it in the same way as they're honest with many other things in life. Parents "indoctrinate" their kids with things they believe to be true ...Republicans are better than Democrats, eating oatmeal for breakfast, drinking milk for strong bones, freedom is better than socialism, communism is a bad form of government, the sun will come up in the morning (usually in the east), school is good for getting good jobs (even tho' drug dealers make lots of money and are usually uneducated), ..., and a myriad of other similar beliefs.
I hope your kid turns out a hell of a lot better than what you're planning on making him, Barox Max.
Those are all types of memes. The term "Brights" is also a meme which atheists who belong to that club hope to foster. Some memes are harmless while others are not.
As well, you fallaciously compare the memes of terrestrial nature to that of the supernatural. Somewhat of difference, wouldn't you say?
The memes of religion are the doctrines and dogma that have been passed on for centuries, bludgeoned into the minds of children to create a worldview of uncritically believing in that which hasn't been shown to exist, unlike communism and sunrises.
And just who should decide what's "harmless" or not? Should we, as a society, elect atheists to make that determination for us all?
We've also bludgeoned our kids with the ideals of love, which hasn't been shown to exist.
We've also bludgeoned our kids with the ideals of freedom, which have never existed in any human society.
We've also bludgeoned our kids with the ideals of human compassion, yet the favorite video games and movies are those with intense violence and bloody combat.
What else have we "bludgeoned" our kids with that you don't like? Or is it ONLY religious beliefs?
I think let them start on a clean slate, and they will paint, repaint whatever reflection of the present or the future world they percieve. I believe that parents should create the environment for learning, this leads to higher thought. Let the offspring find the truth by themselves. Truth is earned, not given. Truth is discovered through pain. If someone gives you the truth, you might not appreciate it, you will brush it off. If truth is earned you treat it like a newborn baby with care.
Bottom line: Foster education, give tools, and present different paths, they will choose with time, some faster than others (and this should be respected), everyone should get there, and if not, its OUR fault.
What are The Ten Commandments & where do you find it?
Just to improve the confusion, which of the two diferent ten commandments are we talking about?
Why? Are those decisions currently being made by theists?
An atheist would make any and all decisions without resorting to Bronze Age myths and superstitions for guidance. Wouldn't you?
Your examples aren't relative to or rival religious indoctrination. Try again.
Kinda' difficult to undo thousands of years of human social interaction based on those myths and superstitions. Atheists use that knowledge regularly, even if they refuse to admit it.
So, ...what? Some indoctrination is good, while other indoctrination is bad? Is that what ye're saying? Sounds sorta' judgemental and subjective, don't it?
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