Should men have a say in abortion ?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by RainbowSingularity, May 25, 2019.

  1. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    5,232
    Fantastic Post !
    the morally Bankrupt anti-abortionista's will never answer these questions
    Moral Spiritual & Religious Hypocrisy is there Core Principal.

     
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  3. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Right. Except that loving couples aren't in this: they can figure it out between them and don't need our input. Little girls sold to old guys aren't in this: they have zero choice and no recourse to reason. Other cultures are not in this: they're beyond our reach.
    (Underage girls in any circumstances are - unfortunately - in this, but shouldn't be. They need somebody to confide in, need to be informed of their realistic options, need emotional and material support, advice and counsel. Not out in the public spotlight, but in a safe and sensitive environment. Fat chance, for most of them, I know.
    But let's be aware that boys are people too, who need their concerns discussed, or else they'll grow up to be Republicans.)

    However, I was referring to emancipated adults making informed decisions without coercion from the state of anyone else.
     
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  5. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    This thread has 22 pages. In a nutshell: Life Good/Death Bad.
     
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  7. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    I had lost interest in the thread after it started spinning in circles. Jumped in around the time I saw the ref to Gianna. I thought the video interesting, so I posted it. As for adding additional comments, I don't see much point in it. I doubt I will convince you any more than you will convince me.
     
  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,647
    Honesty Good/ Lying Bad
    You aren't fooling anyone here.
    That wasn't a circle - it was a mirror. And unlike Musika, setting up a funhouse of distortions was not your agenda coming in - you weren't in control, and came to be faced with the reflection.
    Or in direct terms: You found the thread difficult to post in without revealing your actual motives and basic outlook - which you don't like any more than anyone else does. Hence the deflection into videos, to avoid accountability: the bullshitter's favorite medium, the propagandist's handiest tool.

    Somebody could formulate an analogy to Godwin's Law: first person to post a video instead of a response has checked out of any discussion. "Loses".
     
    Beer w/Straw likes this.
  9. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Am I arguing for abortion?
    Uhm, Okay. If watching a video somehow trumps your card...?
     
  10. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Well, the rape scenario pops up once again. Are we going to stand our arguments on the battered bodies of rape victims, even though they are less than 1% of those who get abortions? I will bite with another question: Should we kill the children of rapists?
     
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,647
    Watching liars, bigots, fundies, imbeciles, and just plain bullshitters post videos instead of responses to avoid accountability has gotten old. It's bad manners.
    Transcript, at least. You have something to say, post it.
     
  12. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,647
    Yes.
    You do realize that forcibly preventing a woman from getting an abortion - her right in self defense if for no other reason - is itself barely distinguishable from rape? Your percentage of battered bodies is going to get a lot higher, if you do that. You are even going to get some dead ones.

    btw: So an alleged 1% is too low - What percentage would be your cutoff for human rights? 5%? 7%?
     
  13. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    You didn't answer the question. Should we kill the children of rapists? I mean, if we ever do recognize the unborn as human life, would we make an exception for those whose father was a rapist?

    We post videos on this site often. Why the objections now? It's a unique opportunity to hear from an abortion victim...or do they not count in this discussion?
     
  14. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    6,937
    Here we go again.

    To pro life men - why do you feel that you or men in general should have a say in abortion? Why shouldn’t it be between a woman and her doctor?

    That’s the original thread topic. Why can’t any of you answer this?
     
  15. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    8,828
    Because some of us believe the life within the woman is valuable, worth protecting. But be certain that many men would be happy to take a women to the abortion clinic, not so much for her but for himself.
     
  16. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    6,937
    Finally, an answer. (Thank you) I don't disagree, that there are men who want to keep abortion legal without restrictions, because it suits them. But, know that many, MANY woman make the decision alone, and there is no guy walking them to the clinic. It is wrong for men to ''have their fun'' and then walk away, leaving a woman to handle raising a child that she didn't really plan for. Do you feel that all men who help to get a woman pregnant, should be held as responsible as a woman?
     
  17. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    6,937
    Imagine though, if suddenly vasectomies were banned or made very restrictive. There are many religious people who feel that OTC birth control and vasectomies, should be banned or limited. imagine if women were involved in making these decisions for men - saying that due to their religious beliefs, they believe that preventing life is wrong. And those religious beliefs became lawful.

    I bring this up because it would seem that much of the pro-life movement has to do with religious values - that life begins at conception. But, also, those same pro-lifers follow religions that prevent birth control, etc. as preventing life is also ''sinful.'' At the end of the day, pro-lifers seem to pick and choose when to whip out their moral compass, and abortion is when it comes out. Where is their moral compass when their religious values don't match up with their use of birth control?

    So, my point being that morality is very subjective, and it seems to be drawn only when it affects other people's lives. When it affects our own on a personal level, then we're like...eh, I don't want the government telling ME how to live MY life.
     
  18. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    I believe they are responsible by law. Correct me if I am wrong.

    I've never know any other guys who were planning a vasectomies.. It's always been their wives who insisted on the procedure

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    I can't answer for others.

    Well, here is the thing, what is the value of human life--yours, mine and theirs? I want to believe we all share a common morality, no matter how thin that thread might be. I could be wrong though.
     
  19. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I don’t know. I think if we’re honest, the fact that you support Trump, leads many of us to be stand-offish as you coming from an altruistic, moral place. You don’t have the same concern for “life at the border,” starving kids and their parents, but you’re concerned with a fetus. Why?

    I’m not judging your pro-life stance, or your concern with a fetus, but it just seems hypocritical to me. That’s why these discussions never lead anywhere. Maybe pro-life isn’t the right label - anti-abortion is more fitting.
     
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  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    15,237
    The numbers are not iportant. What's important is the right to self-determination by women. Anti-abortion laws are a stark example of women's rights in face of a horrible experience which then is added to by the imposition of a burden on her life for some 18 years, raising an unwanted child which was forced on her by violent rape.

    When can a woman declare her right to utterly reject the results of that rape? The new proposed laws would deny a woman that simple control over her own body, laws which are being passe without participation of women who are the prime subject of the discussion.

    It is a good example of what limits there are if at all. Obviously, life itself is not a sacred thing to pro-lifers. They will gladly kill a doctor who performs abortions in order to save the life of an unborn fetus. Killing someone in order to save a life seems like a somewhat skewed perspective on priorities, IMO.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
  21. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    6,937
    Adding on to my post above, something I've noticed is that many pro-lifers are okay with sending men and women to war, ''stand your ground law'' which means you can shoot to kill if someone is violating your space (even if that other person is unarmed), sending people away from the border with nowhere to go, death penalty, killing/hunting deer/animals for sport, etc.

    And the replies are typically ''well, that's different...''

    So, if there's going to be common ground to be found, it will be in starting with pro-lifers honestly reflecting as to why they seem to consider some life disposable, but have such a strong opinion on abortion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
  22. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Okay. Imagine if the government made the decision for them.


    Who is ''theirs?''
     
  23. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    4,761
    OK! So you're busy supporting gun-control legislation and working hard to abolish capital punishment.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019

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