Should Freedom of Religion include Freedom from Religion?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Goldtop, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    I recently had a debate with a Christian and Muslim, both stated emphatically they had every right to exercise their freedom of their respective religions, however both also stated that no one should have freedom from religion, that this was not a right.

    Thoughts?
     
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  3. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Are you talking about the U.S. Constitution, the laws of another country, "god law", personal opinion, what?
     
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  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Indeed. All good thoughts.
     
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Ask the Christian if he's OK with the Muslim exercising his right to his religion right there at the same table.
     
  8. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    I suppose it depends on where you want to draw the line. Do the words "In God We Trust" provoke people to attend church? Does the lighting of a Christmas tree in a public square force people to their knees?
     
  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    The problem with 'In God We Trust', is that it presumes to speak for all. Especially grating if it is ingrained into the very symbols of economy.
     
  10. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think you mean "provoke" people into attending church. You might mean "force" people to attend church.

    If we are talking about freedom of religion, freedom from religion and freedom of speech, I think when the government isn't doing it we have freedom from religion.

    When private citizens can do it or not do it we have freedom of religion and freedom from religion. When we can speak against religion we have freedom of speech.
     
  11. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    We should indeed be free from religion in government. And I interpret freedom from religion to mean the freedom to be atheist.
     
  12. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    There might have been a time when it spoke for most. I'm not sure whether that is true now, though religion has played a role in the nation.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States
     
  13. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Yes. freedom of religion means:
    First, that the state has no right to impose a single official religion (as many have done in the past, and do in the present.)
    Second, that the separation of church and state means no religious body has a legal right to impose its rules on any citizens. Which is to say: freedom of religion doesn't just mean you get to check Box A or Box B - it means nobody can force you to check any boxes at all.
    Third, that you can practice whatever rituals and ceremonies, celebrate any holidays, set up any monuments, symbols and icons, teach and preach any mythology or moral code, wear any vestments or regalia you want in private - in your home, meeting place, club or house of worship - but you don't have a right to bring those things to a public school, court, legislature, park or work-place.

    Christians and Muslims both seem to think their religious freedom ought to extend to punishing other people for not being like them.
    It doesn't.
     
  14. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    A poor choice of words, yes. I think should the government not promote a specific religion, we're okay; but I wonder whether payer need be removed from schools. As long as it is not performed in a manner that promotes a specific religion, as long as participation is not required, what's the problem?
     
  15. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    "Payer"? I'm guessing your mean prayer? Of course prayer is not appropriate in public schools. If you aren't religious why should you be forced to be around prayer?

    How do you have a generic prayer for those who are religious?

    I think it's ridiculous to think that kids just can't go 8 hours without prayer in their lives. If they need to pray they can do it privately even as they sit in class. No need to force everyone else to do so.

    How do you not participate when your teacher stops class to lead a prayer...just not pray? That's still intrusive.

    Why don't we all stop class and pray to the devil, just as long as participate isn't forced?

    I think you are trolling with this subject.
     
  16. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    When I was a kid in elementary, we all said the pledge of allegiance except for one who chose not to participate.
     
  17. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    When I was a kid, the was one teacher who lead a prayer in class. She even called upon different class members to read it.

    That's why the law changed. It's not appropriate. Pledging allegiance to the flag isn't as bad although it still kind of makes my skin crawl.
     
  18. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    Was that prayer specific to one religion?
     
  19. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Freedom from religion?

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    Means GTFO of my science class and take your damn horse with you!

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  20. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    It was reading verses from the Bible.
     
  21. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    No such thing during my school years.
     
  22. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    That's the point. When I first started school, they weren't integrated. By 9th grade they were. By 9th grade there was no more prayer in the class rooms either. Progress.
     
  23. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Problem is it is to fine a line to walk without bias. Even if such a line is walkable someone will complain of bias.
    More trouble than it is worth to try to have a so called Religious Instruction class which supposedly teaches about all religions. They don't, they can't and again not worth the bother to try
    Why do you think religious groups would like (want?) even RI in school? Surely not to give traction or free publicity to other religions?
    No they hope the classes will be biased to their brand

    As for opt-out option what do you think the opt-in and opt-out groups are going to talk about during playtime breaks?

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