Should a Man be Forced to Pay Child Support for a Child He Wanted to Abort?

Whatever the mother did, the legal standard is "the best interests of the child." The mother's actions, no matter how weinous, are irrelevant under that standard. Here again, it seems to me the balance of the equities fall against men, and iin favor of payment. What the hypothetical woman did is unfair to the man, but (a) if she is forced to care for the child alone, that might coerce her in to having an abortion and (b) if the man opts to provide no support, that's not fair for the child he sired. Combine that with the difficulty of proving the mother's actions and motives and the ease of adminstering the "father must pay" rule, and i think the sensible conclusion is that fathers should be forced to pay.

 

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But why..? Why would the father pay the woman for a child he has nothing to do with other than providing sperm for?

 

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here is a question for you.
The law states that if a mother puts a child up for adoption the father has the right to assert parental rights over that child (ie take the child whatever the mother says).
now in this case where the mother has put it up for adoption and the father has taken it is that just to bad for her, she is finatially responcable or does this end her finantial responcability?€

 

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Why should she have to pay money for a child she put up for adoption?

 

well if the law says she doesnt then there is your solution. the guy just puts the kid up and lets the mother take it

 

You can do that? Why hasn't every guy ever done that?

 

Yes. Your sperm created the baby. Should have used a condom.

 

Oh c'm'on Challenger! Thought I knew you better than that. I thought you were uber rational

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. My way of thinking seems the most rational to me, obviously. A man didn't want to have the kid, and has no say in whether the kid is born or not. Why should he be forced to pay for something he basically had no control over(after insemination).

 

I see your point, but I considered the other discussions, it's far too easy for a man to come in and say that I didn't want the baby. Practically and legally it'd be an interesting case. We only have the man's word that he didn't want that child. While he has no control over what the woman chooses to do with her body, he can certainly make his objections known. If he fails to convince her, then while it's not fair, he has no choice.
The matter, I believe is best for the courts to decide. My answer may have been too general.

 

challanger what about the flip side, ie its to easy for a women to abort a fetus in an effort to hurt her partner?

 

He should have talked about it.
Just as a woman (and the man) know there is a chance there will be a pregancy, the man should also know there is a chance that that child will come to term.
The father's responsibility is not to the mother, but to the child that, it seems in his terms, he recklessly helped create.

 

Because those are potential consequences of his actions.
(and by the way, any man who thinks he should not have to pay had damn well be out there defending abortion rights)

 

Again, the consequences of not thinking it through, If your partner is vile enough to kill something you helped create, you should get a new partner. Same if a partner doesn't take responsibility for something he helped create.
A child is the ultimate union between two people, to use it as a tool to get leverage is just plain wrong.

 

A man has choices

Two general points about sex, pregnancy, and choice:

• Have you, personally, ever had another man's semen inside your body?​

Have you ever had it on your body? In your mouth?

For comparison, a certain stereotype we might find in movie dialogue would be the guy who sees the cute chick in a bar, hits on her, gets shot down, and then calls her a bitch or a dyke. You know, orgasms are fun, and so, usually is the stuff leading up to them. Most women I know° would agree about orgasms in specific, and probably with the stuff leading up to them. Certain women I know would pointedly ask, "Whose orgasms?"

Now, my former partner (the mother of my child) liked orgasms. And she liked some of the stuff that led up to it (receiving oral sex). She pretended to like other things (sexual intercourse), though only she knows the truth of that. And, for the most part, while she openly and repeatedly rejected condoms, she didn't really want the ejaculate anywhere near her.

That stupid stereotype in a bar is upset that a woman is a tease. Well, maybe she's not trying to appeal to him specifically. And, maybe, it's not so much that she's a dyke, but rather that he disgusts her and she doesn't want his load spilled anywhere in her proximity.

The point is to introduce or remind the idea that, for men and women, certain perspectives such as sexual intercourse are based on different factors.

• How many men have ever carried in and delivered from their own bodies a baby?​

It's not just pain. Pregnancy can wreak havoc—sometimes irreparable—on a woman's body. Delivery is often excruciating, and sometimes requires surgery. Caesarian section is the obvious one, but—and I'm loath to conduct a poll this issue for, hopefully, obvious reasons—we might wonder about how men would feel about having their anus professionally sliced open? These procedures require prolonged recuperation, and in many cases, that recovery is never complete.

Pregnancy and childbirth can—independent of the fact of parenthood itself—permanently alter a woman's life. It is not something we men can fully comprehend; the best we can do is the academic and the abstract.

When it is your body and your future, it becomes your choice.

However—

—you do have a certain choice. If you're not willing to take the risks, don't hop on the ride.

Imagine jumping out of an airplane. Sure, it might suck when you realize that your chute isn't going to open, and that you're about to die. And, certainly, it sucks to realize that, for the rest of the fall, you don't have any say in the matter. But you did have the choice, and that was whether or not to jump out of the airplane in the first place.

And while one of our associates raises the proposition of a woman tricking a man, well, some—myself included—still wonder why my partner lied and schemed to stay close to me, and only bothered to tell the truth after our child was born, when she decided I was an impediment to her ability to go get loaded at the bar every night. Especially whent he question was put to her directly six years before she admitted the "truth". But the question is academic now. I'd like to know because I have a fascination with the idea of human nature. My daughter rocks, so I ought never wish a chance to do those years over. In the end, though, no matter how much scorn I might pour upon my former partner's behavior, neither can anybody account for my decision to stay in the relationship, either. Okay, we can be superficial, if we want, and point out that it had a lot to do with sex and drugs. But that's the thing: at some point the quality of one's partner reflects something about oneself. So if a woman tricks a man, yeah, that's really low. But it does not excuse the man from considering his own judgment and choices insofar as he got himself into the situation with a person of such poor character in the first place.

Lastly, I must dispute with our neighbor Orleander, although the issue is not tremendous. Specifically, condoms are not insufficient. I would suggest that the only safe choices as such are to get a vasectomy, abstain from sex altogether, or go find yourself a nice, healthy boy-toy to tap on a regular basis. Which, of course, brings us back to the beginning.
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Notes:

° Most women I know — Human diversity inherently rejects any claim I can make that "every woman I know" likes orgasms. I would not speculate as to which women I know would lie to me about it, but, in truth, there are some women with whom the subject will, likely, never come up. While I could easily devise a movie scene to the other, I can't say I expect, or, particularly ever want to partake in, a conversation in which my mother expresses her love of orgasms. You know, just ... for instance.

 

Tiassa you know i like you but when talking about sex your bias's show WAY to much.
women enjoy sex as much as men do, you do realise that lots of women CHOSE to self impale themselves with rubber devices which bare a striking resemblance to a human (and other animals for that matter) penis dont you?

as for baring the conquences of ones choice you do realise that is the argument used against those who think abortion should be a choice for women dont you?

Now as a man i would PREFER if the male partner is around if they had some input into that decision and it was a joint decision, the poll i saw on the number of women who wouldnt tell there partners before getting an abortion pissed me off (it was something like 50%) but im a realisit. i know that there is no way to enforce something like this and that even if you know they have a partner medical in confidence prevents disclosure of this sort of infomation (to a parent as well BTW)

That being said the answer is quite symple, either a) getting pregnant is a risk BOTH parties chose to take when they engage in sexual activity or b) both parties have a way out, women can abort and males can abdocate

you cant have it both ways my friend

 

Im with Betrayerofhope, If the man makes it clear he does not want the baby and he wants an abortion, if she chooses to keep the baby, then she cannot ask for his money. Otherwise if the man wants to keep the baby and the woman does not then the woman cannot have an abortion, she then has to give the baby to the father after birth and pay him child support. How is that for fair?, She cannot murder the child it's her own fault "She should have been on the pill, had her tubes tied or used some form of contraceptive if she didn't want the responsibility" was that the logic in the reverse subjective morals argument of this case?.


peace.

 

QUOTE Asguard;

More than men do from what I can tell.


peace.

 

In my opinion, the guy should have the right to have an abortion or to not be involved with this kids life at all, including monetarily. Most people(even pro-lifers) would probably think it's OK for a woman to get an abortion if she was drunk at the time, she can't be held responsible for what happened during that time(of course, she could've not gotten drunk, but there are other examples at are unavoidable). Now, if the man is drunk(whether the woman is or not is irrelevant), why should he be held responsible for his actions(paying child support) when many people would agree with the woman who elects to get an abortion?

And thanks, Chi.

 

I think the alcohol references obscure the real issue. The situation *is* unfair to men, and the alcohol makes it seem more unfair, but the issue is that the decision whether to have the surgery is the woman's, and by giving the man the power to deny support you both (i) harm the child (who would be less blameworthy than anyone, even the drunken father) and (ii) give the man an economic weapon with which he can potentially coerce the mother into having an abortion in the first place. The latter is unseemly, and the former unfair. In my mind that double-whammy beats out the single-whammy unfairness of making the man pay.

Why? Look at things slightly differently...First, imagine the pre-abortion state of the world. There *neither* the man nor woman has a choice. The child must be born and must be supported, by both. They were both equally constrained, save that the woman had physical demands being placed upon her in addition to the economic and emotional. Then, doctors invented abortion. By its nature, abortion applied only to women, and it gave women a new option, but (and here is the key) it didn't make the male's position any harder, it just left it the same.

That women have been granted a new right by medical science does not make the men's lack of options "more unfair." The bad position he is in is just as unfair as it was before, save that now he's jealous of the woman's relative freedom. That jealousy is no reason to punish a newborn, and it doesn't alter the fundamental liberty interest that places the abortion decision in the woman's hands in the first place.

In short, "life" is being unfair to the man in that it gives him no way to avoid parenting an unwanted child. In your proposed solution, the man would be making a conscious decision to deny support which will result in a hardship on the child or will coerce an abortion that the mother does not otherwise want. Biological circumstance is imposing hardships in the first case, and the man is imposing hardships in your preferred world. Again, men should be free to cry their bootless cries to the heavens regarding the unfairness of the world, but at least they know it's not personal. Neither the woman nor child could say that. They'd know that the father made a conscious decision, knowing full well it would hurt them for his own benefit. That is personal.

 

I'm with Betrayer.

Let's say the guy was responsible and used a condom, but something went wrong, she insists on having it, he does not want to...I do not think he should have to pay for that.

Dang, if only we were like amphibians and other 'lower' animals, and could simply dump eggs and sperm on the ground.