Shocking number of Flat Earth believers on youtube

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by Ultron, Jun 6, 2016.

  1. Ultron Registered Senior Member

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    181
    I was searching some video about how is Earth moving in respect to Sun and stars and I found some amazing video with very detailed animation on youtube, but I was shocked by the number of people in discussion, who were promoting Flat Earth theory. It was like 50% of people in discussion were supporting it. And the discussion got very aggressive, because all reasonable arguments were dismissed and questions like „Where is the edge of Earth then?“ were ignored.

    I dont believe that such percentage of people have some mental illness, so it seems that major part of these people were mentally healthy and not mentally retarded. It is kind of scary trend with rapidly growing number of people who have such „anti-establishment“ and anti-scientific attitude. But if this trend will continue, in 30 years we will see the rise of Idiocracy, like pictured in prophetic movie from 2006.

    Maybe it is partially caused also by the scientific establishment, which is living like in ivory tower and acting with arogance toward "underhumans" who have no PhD in physics, dismissing possible reasonable discussion.

    What do you think about it?
     
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  3. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Care to provide the link to the YouTube you were watching, so we can see the comments for ourselves?
    One possibility is that the flat-earthers were actually just people taking the Michael and having a laugh.
    But without seeing the comments, who can tell for sure.
     
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  5. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    If it's on YouTube it is reasonable to suppose it is rubbish. Find some proper statistics on this topic and we can have a discussion.
     
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  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    If I go to church I'm bound to find the vast majority, if not all of the congregation as believing in God of a certain particular variety.

    Why do you say the scientific establishment is living in an Ivory tower?
    While I certainly agree that scientists need to do more to make their science more accessible, I believe that journey has already started.
    We have many current regular scientists that try and spread science via the media....Brian Cox, Neil De-Grasse Tyson, Laurence Krauss, Brian Greene, Richard Dawkins, Michio Kaku, Stephen Hawking etc.
    I myself have met a young GR theorist and a professional astronomer over some Yum Cha.
    Do Doctors live in an Ivory Tower?
    I see it more as a lay person's problem and a fact which is oh too obvious on this forum, that we have also seen a rise in religious fundamentalists, doing their best to invalidate science at every opportunity, since science has pushed the need for any deity to explain the universe around us, into near oblivion.
    Most scientists do not like wasting time and precious efforts on ratbags such as these, other than the few I have listed.
    This forum had a Professor of cosmology for a short time, until he grew tired of the nonsense one of our past well known anti science antagonist was continually dishing up to him.
    Most also are busy in this new enlightened age of cosmology and have their proverbial heads down and arse up and nose to the grind stone, doing theeir level best to decipher the myriad of new discoveries and evidence in recent times.
    Even then we have had a poster named tashja who has been kind enough to post replies to many E-Mail request questions, from many professionals she has obtained.

    I believe we are entering a golden age of discovery and space exploration in which the flow on benefits to society will also be enormous.
    We have come a long way but there is still plenty left to do and many questions still unanswered.
    Many of today's children that are educated in Christian schools [as I was] will grow up being exposed to this new found knowledge and discoveries, and I'm sure many will also realise in time how their own learnings re a deity, is not really needed and at best could be discarded as superfluous and at worst just plain mythical.

    ps: No, I am not a religious basher and have very rarely visited the religious forum, but by the same token, many of our anti science frauds are religiously driven and when they ply their trade in science, then I believe they are fair game.
     
  8. Ultron Registered Senior Member

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    181
    I have the link in favorites, but at the moment Im on other computer and cant find it, there are too many similar videos. I will post it in few hours.
    But I dont think it is only this particular video, you can just look random video to search „Earth orbit“ and there are several videos promoting Flat Earth theory and even more people in discussions promoting it.
    Like 5 years ago were Flat Earthers rare and laughable stock, but now their numbers seems to be growing significantly.
     
  9. ajanta Registered Senior Member

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    600
    Hmmm !! There are many claims and investigations are going on about ghosts, monsters, spirits . And I think, now the GHOST/SPIRIT(flat earth) of the earth is disturbing them.
     
  10. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Been there, done that. Ever hear of religion?
     
  11. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    Yep, there are several societies of flat-earthers around the globe (heh).

    Natalie Wolchover: The theory follows from a mode of thought called the "Zetetic Method," an alternative to the scientific method, developed by a 19th-century flat-earther, in which sensory observations reign supreme. "Broadly, the method places a lot of emphasis on reconciling empiricism and rationalism, and making logical deductions based on empirical data," Flat Earth Society vice president Michael Wilmore, an Irishman, told Life's Little Mysteries. In Zetetic astronomy, the perception that Earth is flat leads to the deduction that it must actually be flat; the antimoon, NASA conspiracy and all the rest of it are just rationalizations for how that might work in practice. --Are Flat-Earthers Being Serious?; "Live Science"; October 26, 2012

    Aside from that preference for brute empiricism / naive realism, the motivations for their "belief" also stem from a loose combination of contrarianism and conspiracy predilection. The contrarian impulse of going against orthodoxy satisfies a misplaced "risk expectation" of potential rewards; and can play therapeutic roles in making the person feel special / privileged or that free-will is being exercised via the defiance of authoritative prescriptions, among other things. Elaborate conspiracy can be replaced with a "grand illusion" metaphysics if the mundane plots, disinformation tactics, & deceptions attributed to NASA and academic institutions don't suffice for a particular individual or MFE society.

    Here's an example of a "Grand Illusion" hypothesis (just include Earth really being flat as part of the deal behind the veil of perception)...

    Philip K Dick: [...] Parmenides would be proud of me. I have gazed at a constantly changing world and declared that underneath it lies the eternal, the unchanging, the absolutely real. but how has this come about? If the real time is circa A.D. 50, then why do we see A.D. 1978? And if we are really living in the Roman Empire, somewhere in Syria, why do we see the United States?

    During the Middle Ages, a curious theory arose, which I will now present to you for what it is worth. It is the theory that the Evil One—Satan—is the "Ape of God." That he creates spurious imitations of creation, of God's authentic creation, and then interpolates them for that authentic creation. Does this odd theory help explain my experience? Are we to believe that we are occluded, that we are deceived, that it is not 1978 but A.D. 50... and Satan has spun a counterfeit reality to wither our faith in the return of Christ?

    I can just picture myself being examined by a psychiatrist. The psychiatrist says, "What year is it?" And I reply, "A.D. 50." The psychiatrist blinks and then asks, "And where are you?" I reply, "In Judaea." "Where the heck is that?" the psychiatrist asks. "It's part of the Roman Empire," I would have to answer. "Do you know who is President?" the psychiatrist would ask, and I would answer, "The Procurator Felix." "You're pretty sure about this?" the psychiatrist would ask, meanwhile giving a covert signal to two very large psych techs. "Yep," I'd replay. "Unless Felix has stepped down and had been replaced by the Procurator Festus. You see, Saint Paul was held by Felix for—" "Who told you all this?" the psychiatrist would break in, irritably, and I would reply, "The Holy Spirit." And after that I'd be in the rubber room, inside gazing out, and knowing exactly how come I was there.

    Everything in that conversation would be true, in a sense, although palpably not true in another. I know perfectly well that the date is 1978 and that Jimmy Carter is President and that I live in Santa Ana, California, in the United States. I even know how to get from my apartment to Disneyland, a fact I can't seem to forget. And surely no Disneyland existed back at the time of Saint Paul.

    So, if I force myself to be very rational and reasonable, and all those other good things, I must admit that the existence of Disneyland (which I know is real) proves that we are not living in Judaea in A.D. 50. The idea of Saint Paul whirling around in the giant teacups while composing First Corinthians, as Paris TV films him with a telephoto lens—that just can't be. Saint Paul would never go near Disneyland. Only children, tourists, and visiting Soviet high officials ever go to Disneyland. Saints do not.

    But somehow that biblical material snared my unconscious and crept into my novel, and equally true, for some reason in 1978 I relived a scene which I described back in 1970. What I am saying is this: There is internal evidence in at least one of my novels that another reality, an unchanging one, exactly as Parmenides and Plato suspected, underlies the visible phenomenal world of change, and somehow, in some way, perhaps to our surprise, we can cut through to it. Or rather, a mysterious Spirit can put us in touch with it, if it wishes us to see this permanent other landscape. Time passes, thousands of years pass, but at the same instant that we see this contemporary world, the ancient world, the world of the Bible, is concealed beneath it, still there and still real. Eternally so.

    Shall I go for broke and tell you the rest of this peculiar story? I'll do so, having gone this far already....
    --How to Build a Universe That Doesn't Fall Apart Two Days Later, 1978
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2016
  12. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    Since Trump was picked as the republican nominee for president, it takes a helluva lot to shock me.
     
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  13. Ultron Registered Senior Member

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  14. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    It is a truism that the You Tube comment section is the nexus of ignorant people with a lot to say.
    It is not representative of the general population.
     
  15. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    I know two people who are flat-earthers, immune to reason, devoid of thought and in desperate need of mental care or euthanasia, whichever comes first.

    Both profess to be Christians, God help them.

    The world will be a better place when religiosity is listed in the DSM.
     
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  16. origin Trump is the best argument against a democracy. Valued Senior Member

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    Nice...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  17. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    Many decades ago (circa 1965 I think), there was a delightful Flat Earth Web Site maintained by group of Englishmen with a sense of humour (spelling in deference to them). Unfortunately it no longer exists.

    If I had known it was not to be maintained, I would have copied some of their graphics & remarks.

    They sent a prize (50 English Pounds, I think) for trick photography to an American astronaut. At the time iit was worth over $200, so they apparently were affluent as well as having a sense of humour. The photograph showed the spherical earth from an orbiting satellite. The following remark was made by them.
    The above is a paraphrase:, my memory is neither infallible nor precise.

    Their web Site showed a graphic display of the Flat Earth.

    It was circular

    Europe was in the center & western Africa hung over the edge at right angles to the plane of the rest of the Earth.

    There were black stalactites (? composition?) hanging underneath.
    If anyone has a copy of or a link to that graphic, I would be happy to know. I wish I had copied it.

     
  18. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    Not to quibble (much), but 1965 is a bit early for a website.

    Have you tried the Wayback Machine for possible cached material?
     
  19. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Ah yes. The famous Continental Drip.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
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  20. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    From Dr Toad Post # 15
    Perhaps it was not the modern internet with Web Sites, but it was similar in many respects.

    My not infallible memory suggests 1965 & I am sure it was not as late as 1970.
     
  21. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    There definitely were joke Flat Earth Societies before the Internet. My impression is that the Internet has levelled 'information" to the point where loonies are taken as seriously as pranksters.
     
  22. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    I sat through a 2 hour pod-cast debate with a flat-Earther. It was very informative. Albeit, frustrating, I don't think I'd do it again other than to catalog examples of logical fallacies (mostly informal).
     
  23. zgmc Registered Senior Member

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    756
    Funny I posted a thead about this topic. The flat earthers are here, and it's really dumb!
     

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