Sharing my Philosophy of Life and Living

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by quantum_wave, Aug 27, 2016.

  1. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    You welcome... an sure... if we had the same beliefs we woud be in agreement... but for now i woud need to see some sort of plausible evidence that free will coud be a possibility.!!!

    My biggest philosophy of life is that the universe is likely deterministic an im in a huge minority on that issue

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  3. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    Well, there is logic to support your philosophy. Like if the invariant laws govern a cause and effect that are invariant, regardless of there being "as yet" unknowns. My philosophy is that there isn't going to be plausible evidence of the workings of the unknowns until they become known.

    Until then, I take a different path at the point of seeking plausible evidence; a path that says that the unknowns include a mechanics of consciousness and mind that make a moment of free choice possbile when mind and consciousness are in play.
     
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  5. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Quantum Wave, what do you mean by free will? Are you just speaking in terms of one's life being totally determined at birth vs there being many paths which are influenced by the individual?

    Or are you arguing that every decision that we make is freely determined and consciously thought out? If I knew where you lived, something about your upbringing and education and economic background I could probably tell you a lot about what decisions you have made in life. Would you consider that you freely made all of them or would you consider that there were many other influences in addition to your conscious decisions?
     
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  7. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    If you were an animal, driven by your natural instincts, you will flow with life, in a way determined by your instincts. The environment may throw unique circumstances at you, but your instincts will act, within that unique context.

    Free will is connected to something unique to humans. Humans have a secondary center of consciousness which is different from center connected to our natural human instincts. This means our choices are not fully determined by instinct. Rather our choices can be influenced by the unique POV of the secondary center. In modern times, it is not even easy to define natural human instincts, since culture is more about the choices of the secondary.

    Free choice is not about being able to make questionable calls that are unnatural; freely kill or eat poison. It means being able to depart from the determinism of natural instinct, that is engrained in our DNA. This is a result of the secondary center of consciousness. War does not come from the primary center. This comes from the secondary and is an example of free will that depart from instinct.

    The religious concepts, like God's will and determinism is connected to the primary center. God's will is a return to the determinism of nature apart from the secondary; humble the ego or secondary center. The primary center is a return to paradise; instinct decides for you.

    Death symbolically came into the world when the secondary center appears; conscious knowledge of good and evil. Our instincts are a product of millions of years of evolution, optimized for survival in all types of circumstances. Conscious choices don't run that deep and therefore will not optimize survival; death appears.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016
  8. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, that sums it up to a large extent.
    There are many influences. Nature puts many constraints on our development, but our up bringing and environment, experiences, and choices, shape who we are. Given knowledge of that kind of information about an individual, their future actions to a large extent could be considered predictable, at least with some degree of probability.
     
  9. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    I like the way you put that.
    Thanks for that opinion; something to think about.
     
  10. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    In that case I don't think there is anyone (very few) who would argue otherwise. How could they? No one thinks that if given a choice between a pizza and a hamburger than their choice is predetermined.

    So your "philosophy of live and living" is that you can choose between pizza and hamburger and the universe has always existed? Not much to disagree with there other than the unknown regarding the beginning of the universe.

    The only other thing I can recall from reading your beginning post is the point about "invariant" laws and unknown portions of the invariant laws.

    Laws pretty much are invariant aren't they? We know that we don't know absolutely everything so it stands to reason that there are things that we don't know. I guess there is nothing to disagree with there but it sounds to me a bit like stating the obvious.
     
  11. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    To me... the "seeking acknowledgements" part in the OP sounds like some sort of built in purpose to the universe.???
     
  12. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    That threw me as well. I thought I was supposed to thank him for helping the children but I couldn't see where he helped any?

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    Maybe Quantum Wave can clear that part up.
     
  13. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    I guess the details are in his ideas about "philosophy of Eternal Intent".!!!
     
  14. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    I keep waiting for that to swing around and become "God". Just as the "invariant" laws that have unknown portions can suddenly swing around to be "God Did It".

    It's not much of a "philosophy" once you remove the unnecessary labels. It's just the Big Bang and a guess about what came before the Big Bang and potentially a hope that that is God or something just as nebulous.
     
  15. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    Over the years of posting about the ISU and Eternal Intent, there have been a few cases of members seeing a hidden "God did it" agenda in my cosmology and philosophy. To some, the Three Infinities and the philosophy of Eternal Intent have characteristics that they attribute to God, and so any non-God writing that includes those phrases attracts suspicions that there is going to be a shift to a deity behind my philosophy.

    That is not the case, though denying it does nothing to overcome the suspicions of people who react that way. I can only say that my profile has contained the following statement for years:

    Anything that seems Supernatural has natural causes that we don't yet understand.
     
  16. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    I can see how it is easy to confuse the act of seeking an acknowledgement from beyond the boundary of known science, with the act of a God fearing individual invoking the act of prayer. And I can see how the individual might perceive that some event is an answer, whether that answer is from the workings of "as yet" unknown natural laws, or from their perceived God.

    Whether you "seek acknowledgements", or invoke the act of prayer, the results are hard to verify, and the source of any such results is likely to remain unknown. For example, ten prayers for mundane things that each have some reasonable probability of occurring naturally, like finding a parking place in the front row, will almost invariably result in a "hit", which then might get perceived by the overly enthusiastic individual as an answer to the prayer.

    However, people who pray for mundane things and think they are getting answers from God or from some set of natural laws, might better focus on greater problems than getting a parking place in the front row. So when I mentioned in post #2, that one of the first acknowledgements I sought was for the improved well being of the children of the world, I was putting it out there in case there was something to the philosophy. I'll leave it out there just in case.

    My reasoning is that if there are invariant natural laws that work, and if they can be effective given certain circumstances of invocation, then when and how they work becomes a matter of personal investigation. That investigation, in my case, starts as speculation, and then there are various hypotheses put forward, and then there is testing. Results are subjective, but the philosophy is that any workings of natural laws might be subject to testing, at least on an individual basis, and any progress might be worth sharing, in case some other member wants to try their hand at it, and share.
     
  17. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    @ qw
    If someone prays to ther God for the betterment of children... woud that effectively be the same as you seekin an acknowledgment for the betterment of children... ie... in both scenarios the betterment of children is just as likely to occur.???
     
  18. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    @ qw
    Do you thank the universe has always had sentient creatures such as ourselfs.???
     
  19. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know. It seems like there would be a large correlation between the two, but how successful is prayer relative to seeking an acknowledgement? No one knows. To the extent that neither one works at all, then yes, they would be the same thing. But there are people who claim that prayer works, at least in certain circumstances, and why would one's particular religion be the thing that makes it work. If it works at all, why would it work for some and not for others. Those are some of the questions I am playing with too.
    Yes, in my model, speculatively.
     
  20. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Do you think the Earth has always had sentient creatures?

    Why do you stress "invariant" natural laws. Are there any other kind? Do you know of any "variant" natural laws?
     
  21. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    You think "seeking acknowledgement" rather than prayers has natural causes?
     
  22. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    No. My speculation is that life was generated here by an iterative process of various combinations of elements, until molecules formed that could replicate themselves. Of course, in a universe where intelligent life has, speculatively, always existed, other possibilities for the arrival of life on Earth have some degree of probability.
    Some cosmologies call for various changes in state, and others, like "many worlds", support the idea that the laws of physics could be different in each "universe". To me there is just one infinite universe where the laws of physics have always existed, and have never changed. So when I keep referring to the set of "invariant natural laws that have always existed", I am specifying my particular model, and distinguishing it from other models.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016
  23. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    I think everything has natural causes. I think people could ignore the possibility of acknowledgements and/or prayer, but if there is something going on there that we can't quantify, I do not attribute it to the Supernatural, so it would have to have natural causes, in my book.
     

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