Sexual harassment

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by timojin, Nov 21, 2017.

  1. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Does women dressing ,( Burka ) reduces sexual harassment ?
    If so since women don't like to be floundered and touched why not dress so they would not inspire man ?
     
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  3. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Because, you neanderthal numbskull, that implies you think it reasonable to expect a woman to have to take defensive measures herself, rather than being able to dress normally and rely on civilised behaviour on the part of the offending men.

    This is your Borat persona on display again.
     
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  5. Kittamaru Now nearly 40 pounds lighter. Staff Member

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    Seriously?

    No... seriously timojin... that statement is fucking stupid for a number of reasons.

    First and foremost - if a guy doesn't have the self control to NOT simply grab a woman they find attractive... then they deserve to be, at best, put in a mental health institute, or more likely a prison.

    This goes numerous ways - it is no different than a guy walking up to you, grabbing you by the sack, and calling you buttercup because he finds you attractive. Guess you ought to wear a burka as well to prevent that happening?

    I'm sure that brought any number of red flags up in your mind, not the least of which is "Why the hell should I change how I dress because some sick fuck tried to touch me?"

    Ding ding ding, there's your answer.
     
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  7. timojin Valued Senior Member

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  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I once called a certain fool impressionable and gullible, and got a rap on the knuckles over it. I will now add to that red neck racist and sexist pig.
     
  9. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Wait, I don't have with controlling my desires. But there is a problem in the society. The people who are en power things might be presented to them as an easy opportunity so they might take advantage, we don't know if the female flirted , in order to get a favor, the important part is the flirt . Things don't start on the street by grabing the but or a tit .
     
  10. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Can you rephrase that?
     
  11. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    If I may......
    I'm a good Christian God fearing male who follows the bible and accepts my position of superiority among the lower sex and all other races.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  12. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    I believe a young female with all well developed parts of body,is attractive. A male is a predator , if she works under a male , and she will display her position as a flirt, she is at the danger of the predator to make a pass at her.
     
  13. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    What country do you live in?

    :EDIT:

    I don't know if I should take you seriously. English could be a second language.

    And you sound like a criminal.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
  14. birch Valued Senior Member

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    wrong. you forgot one key discrepancy at the outset and that is she would not be considering it harassment if she had flirted, which would mean that she was wanting that type of attention.
    you don't even have to flirt and it doesn't matter how you dress either. all you need to be is a female period to be made a pass at and continual harassment until you become blatantly hostile because predators do not respect your rights.

    they heinously think they can bypass you to get to you, which is sick by wearing you down or looking for some vulnerability or if you are alone or single etc and has nothing to do with any type of compatibility because their motives are really only about themselves and what they percieve they can get or use you for; you are an object.


    these experiences prove just how many bad or creepy males are out there, which is quite a lot. this all ties into the idea that there are not that many sociopaths but there is a lot. they are just not known until an opportunity presents itself for it to play out in some way. they will not be harassing married women (usually), those in a relationship or those they don't find physically attractive but that still leaves a lot of people.

    just in the past couple years, i've been harassed by several men due to my living situation when i rented a room and in two different states. the first one was immediately after i separated from a relationship and it was an onslaught by three men, two of them extremely aggressively. i did not flirt with any of them. i did not even find them remotely attractive. as a matter of fact, i hardly spoke to them but that didn't stop them either.

    the second time was when i first moved and had to rent a small place due to less money and again, i was harassed by two men even when there was another female renter there because she had a boyfriend. i did not flirt with them. i had to move again. this time i have my own place so that gives me a barrier and lessens vulnerability to that type of exposure.

    one has to consider that the average person is not that keen on intelligence or morals but just enough to get by and not go to prison, couple that with the fact that even more intelligent or people of higher status can also be immoral towards someone, the reality is people are not innocent or the 'good' label that society touts itself to be. "some" of them are, most are just opportunists in every situation.

    what i've realized is, there are people who already commit crimes even with the laws in place to deter them but the majority of people do not commit the most obvious or heinous crimes because of the law (not necessarily because they respect that law) and the risk of punishment/jail but if there were no laws or they knew there wasn't going to be any backlash or punishment in society, they would do the same thing as in rape, steal, murder etc. in other words, you would see even a worse society and world.

    think about it. if society as a whole was actually that good, then they could be trusted without laws and there would be no change in the levels of crime with or without laws, right? you would have to be an idiot or totally dishonest to believe that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
  15. timojin Valued Senior Member

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  16. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Thank you for sharing your view from a female perspective. Interesting what I got from your description, Married individual is less of a predator. I am not saying as a rule , but as proportional marries vs non married.
     
  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    In Sydney in around 2000 we had a situation with five young males coaxing young women to isolated park and conducted gang rapes and other disgusting actions forced on the unlucky girls. Those boys just happened to be Lebanese Muslim and their disgusting antics saw them sentenced to around 240 years in total in jail. After they were jailed some ratbag Muslim cleric blamed the girls and the seductive way that they dressed, likened them to a slab of raw uncovered meat, attracting flies.
    Those animals are still in jail.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_gang_rapes

    The Sydney gang rapes were a series of gang rape attacks committed by a group of up to fourteen Lebanese Muslim Australianyouths led by Bilal Skaf against Anglo-Celtic Australian women and teenage girls, as young as 14, in Sydney Australia in 2000. The crimes, described as ethnically motivated hate crimes by officials and commentators,[1][2][3] were covered extensively by the news media, and prompted the passing of new laws. The nine men convicted of the gang rapes were sentenced[when?] to a total of more than 240 years in jail. According to court transcripts Judge Michael Finnane described the rapes as events that "you hear about or read about only in the context of wartime atrocities".[

    The gang rapes led to the passage of new legislation through the Parliament of New South Wales, increasing the sentences for gang rapists by creating a new category of crime known as "aggravated sexual assault in company".[31]
     
  18. timojin Valued Senior Member

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  19. birch Valued Senior Member

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    uh no. married people or those in a relationship are less predated on because they are attached and males are more intimidated by other males. not all of them but most of them.

    sexual harassment is not about mutual flirtation or even someone trying to find out if someone is interested. predators harass people even when it's not welcome. this is because they are sick or narcissistic in the head/heart and see you as an object. they will do this even when it's blatantly clear someone is not interested. if they really respected other people's rights, then they would back off immediately when it's clear it's unwelcome.

    the only incidents i've ever had any resentment is after becoming involved in a relationship due to lies and betrayal which is abusing trust. but to demand a stranger to like you or be interested based on your own ideals, rationales or usually false projections is malignant narcissism.

    this is the elephant in the room that's ignored with every sexual harasser. every male who has ever harassed in comparison was less attractive, less intelligent (except cunning), less ethical and had nothing in common with interests or taste at all. they are perverts. you have to question the mindframe of someone who chooses people they will be rejected from, partly this is ego and a cognitive dissonance to believe anyone or anything they see or choose even flippantly will be interested. i've even had a blatant hick that flew the confederate flag and into very old school or country music, voted for trump etc be interested in me and his reasoning was simply that he likes women who are younger than him. he didn't even really like me but made some comment about my physical looks like my butt. he proceeded to show me pictures of younger women on his cellphone as proof that he could get younger women and as if personal relationships are some type of commodity. so? that doesn't mean i'm interested.

    males like this almost always pick females that are not even subtly but blatantly not their type to harass. this is why they are getting rejected in the first place. they don't read another in comparison to themselves. they don't develop emotional intelligence because they don't care about another's emotions or what they may prefer, just their own feelings and wants. i've had males come onto me repeatedly no matter if we had opposite and huge divide in tastes, interests, huge age difference, politics, religion, values etc. what kind of sick mind 'demands' or expects another to like them as if it's their right and based on absolutely nothing at all?? lmao.

    even IF there were some tastes or interests in common doesn't guarantee someone will like you or be interested in a romantic or personal relationship. people are so stupid.

    honestly, it is exactly the same as a rapist's mindframe, even if they don't take it that far because the root of it is no respect for the other person's rights. compatibility or mutuality is not the consideration.

    what's even more repugnant is they think that another should justify why someone is not interested as if personal relationships are impersonal and should be dictated. maybe the other just does not like you or you are not their cup of tea. how about that?!

    i've heard the most ridiculous rationales such as 'who do you think you are? you aren't better' to 'you think you are some supermodel or something?' to 'you aren't in your twenties anymore' etc. uh, evidently i am better because i wouldn't be pushing myself on someone to the point of making them uncomfortable. i have NEVER used rationales like this when another male was not interested or really anyone because they don't need to justify who they pick or reject as partners, lovers, or friends. that's their business and so is it is the same with women.

    you have to be an asshole to not care about how the other person feels or what their choices may be, which may not be you. so what? rejection is as a part of life and if you want to be able to exercise choice, then you should respect the same for others. what's even more obnoxious is they also reject women that they are not interested in and expect their choices to be respected but their values are hypocritical. they are just trying to see if they can get over on someone.

    this is the real motivation: harassers are not actually interested in you. they are trying to "compete" with you for whatever they perceive about your attributes or think it represents to stroke their ego. they want to attain something from you whether concretely as well abstractly which bolsters themselves. this is why they are so spiteful or resentful when you are not interested.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
  20. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    Here is an example Italian style
    https://www.thelocal.it/20171121/carlo-tavecchio-accused-sexual-harassment

    Carlo Tavecchio, who quit as head of Italian football on Monday, was accused of sexual harassment by a former executive of the federation in an interview published on Tuesday.
    The woman, given the pseudonym "Mary" by Milan daily Corriere della Sera described an encounter with Tavecchio in his office at the federation's headquarters in Rome.

    "I went into his office to talk about football," she said. "He did not even give me time to ask 'president, how are you?' He looked at me and said: 'You look well, I can see you have an active sex life.' Then he said: 'Come here and let me touch your breasts.'

    "I was embarrassed. I tried to tell him to stop. But his only answer was to close the curtains of the office."
     
  21. birch Valued Senior Member

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    the shallow aspect of sexual harassers is it's almost exclusively based on superficial physical attributes of the target. they use the pretense they are interested in you to try and use you sexually along with other benefits if they could. this is very obvious because they don't even know you and still keep hounding you or even after it's known there is conflict of interests, it doesn't deter them either. it's not about true relating.

    i've met very physically attractive men who were interested in me but that is not the only reason why i would be attracted to someone. attraction is very personal and complex. what is attractive to one person may not be attractive to someone else, even if that person is considered 'attractive' or even a good catch.

    you can tell the difference in the values and mindframe of predators in that people are not someone to relate to as much as to use for their benefit in some way. this is why people who are not even their 'type' will do as long as they have some attributes they can benefit from. it's only personal in how it satisfies themselves.
     
  22. birch Valued Senior Member

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    this idea that sociopaths are just a small fraction of the population is totally false. unless you are fortunate enough to have a good family and live in a relatively insular bubble surrounded and only interact mostly with a set number of people you know and trust well, you find this out very readily.

    just as in that first rental, the guy had his own clothing line and had his own friends and family but that didn't stop him from trying me and randomly asking me for a massage but that was really stupid but it doesn't stop people from trying. with sociopaths, if they learn that you aren't interested, they will just try even lower tactics even if its utterly stupid and get you nowhere. this is because it'a way to insult and degrade because their ego is bruised. even just casual conversation is an opening to an asshole

    the first one was immediately after the ending of a relationship so the landlord started first by being very nosy about me, then another guy had moved in immediately after the lady moved out and i was the only female left in the residence he did also, even banging loudly on my door. the other two males were decent. the landlord was married with children but even if he wasn't, i wouldn't have been interested anyways.

    before i moved into my own apartment, this guy was acting strange at this house where people rent rooms. i was thinking of the odds of this happening again and maybe it just won't happen every time but it did. it was a two story house and the married couples were okay and there were two that lived upstairs and two couples that lived downstairs. there was two single guys on the first floor and the other one was decent and didn't harass but one of them did. he even stole food from me but unfortunately even though the landlord (this one was a good one) understood and talked to him, it didn't stop him from trying again. they did say that he did that before but it wasn't taken seriously. the first major clue something wasn't right was in how he tried to get close, even standing way too close to me invading your natural space and started to hang out after work at home when the other roommates said he didn't do that before until i moved in. i definitely felt watched by him. he came up to me once almost breathing on me and mumbled something about what he could do for me etc. who the hell does that to a total stranger? evidently it's not unusual. then, because i wasn't responding to his liking, he made some bizarre statement in front of everyone when the topic of discussion veered to some single man that lived in the back and he blurted out that i should get with him. his tone was so nasty as if if he couldn't get me, then he got some sort of satisfaction from insinuating who i should be with? i don't get it but nobody cared he was being rude. in the end, i had to move because he had been there longer and even though the others weren't sexual harassers, they were not that moral people anyways and didn't care so were supporting him, even some of the women and blaming me because they were more like him or were his friends.

    i would say from experience that it is more accurate to say that sociopaths make up at least half of the population. there are those with stellar or above average morals but that would not be the majority. the 1-2% is utter bullshit. that might be for serial killers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
  23. Bells Staff Member

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    22,193
    Women in Iran, for example, have said that it basically makes things worse.

    Survey's of Iranian women have shown that the majority of women and girls in Iran have faced sexual harassment, and at times, even physical sexual harassment.

    Researchers have described sexual harassment as physical, visual, verbal and sexual measures threatening, intimidating, humiliating and insulting women. All the women who took part in this survey had experienced non-verbal sexual harassment, nearly 90% had experienced verbal sexual harassment and nearly 95% had undergone physical harassment.
    Furthermore, this investigation shows single women and divorcees had experienced more verbal harassment than other groups.
    82.9% of single women, 63.6% of divorced women, 61.2% of married women and 40% of widows had experienced non-verbal harassment.
    However, all the women whose husbands had passed away, 98.6% of single women, 94.9% of married women, and 81.9% of divorced women had experienced minor or major physical sexual harassment.

    Saudi Arabia has the figure at around 78% of women having experienced sexual harassment (verbal and physical).

    Both of these countries have strict dress codes for women, where the woman is required to completely cover up to not attract the attention of men...

    So the answer to your question is no. Women wearing burqas does not reduce sexual harassment.

    Floundered?

    Women are floundered? What? Fish? Huh?

    And you know, men can simply not sexually harass or assault women.

    I see you have taken a trip and left reality behind, once again?

    You know, you might have an easier time on this site if you did not go out of your way to sound gormless... Just saying.

    Not only does sexual harassment often take the form of street harassment, where we are harassed just walking down the street, minding our own business and not even making eye contact, but the "grabbing the butt or a tit" is not that uncommon either, as we go about our daily lives in the public realm.

    I mean, I get it, you're one of those guys who believes it is the woman's fault, that she must have been flirting, that she showed her ankle or elbow beneath the burqa and that has drawn the attention of me, who perhaps cannot help but prey on her, but if you are a decent human being, then you will understand that sexual harassment is solely the fault of the person doing the harassing and only he can stop the behaviour by not harassing women. But I get that this may be an issue for you.

    How the hell do you come up with rubbish like this?

    No, seriously, how?

    How do you think this is somehow acceptable?

    Just about every single case of sexual harassment that has been making the rounds in the media and news, recently, the guy doing the harassing has been married. So, pray tell, how do you figure that if the man is married, he is less likely to sexually harass women?
     

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