Sexual abuse allegations- how best to protect when the truth is unknown

This entails more of you culturally driven opinions. Again you back up nothing.

Sorry bells, the word research is not evidence of abuse. At least provide a link that prove the act of cunnilingus causes some kind of harm.

 

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Now you are trying to pull a Clinton on us.

The law doesn't care what kind of sex he had with her. He had sex with an 11 year old he was babysitting.

That is statutory rape and the court rightly found him guilty of it. I bet they were extra hard on him because of the breach of trust too.

Doesn't matter what she said or how he rationalized it or even if he had parental consent. An adult having sex with a minor that they are not married to is illegal under all circumstances in every state in the US.

His case is the system working exactly the way it is supposed to.

You may not like the fact that your friend is a convicted pedophile, but that's what he is because he got busted having sex with a minor.

There are plenty of cases where there have been legitimate miscarriages of justice, such as actual boyfriends who were charged for "raping" thier very willing girlfriends while having the full consent of the parents.

It was to protect against that sort of thing that Texas passed a law where if a minor is 16 or older and the partner is within 2 years of their age they can't be charged with statutory rape.

But this is clearly not such a case. The girl was 11. He was her babysitter.

That is as clear cut a case of statutory rape as there is.

You may feel pedophilia is ok and if so just cut to the chase, but this phoney outrage about the system working is disingenuous.

 

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My memories. My property. My privacy. Our penis'. Our vagina's. Not yours. Our memories enhanced digitally. Not your business. If you don't like the content of peoples lives, their nasty, nasty ugly bodies, then DON'T LOOK AT IT.

Keep your morality to yourself and out of our courtrooms.

 

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From your Amerocentric moralized outlook, maybe. But not in reality. She liked getting pleasured, just like anyone else who finds out it feels good. She just happened to be a blackmailing bitch in a idiotic pseudo-science culture of law.

 

They did find him guilty by a criteria of facts. They found him guilty through a lie.

Oh it does matter, if you care about the truth.

yeah, victimize as many people based upon mere accusation, ensuring a swinging door for the legal system. Job security I suppose.

No he didn't. If he got busted, he would have got busted for what he did. He got busted for something he didn't even do. Why? The court doesn't use evidence to back up claims.

Yeah, becaue they don't make sure people are actually proven guilty. Their criteris is psuedo-scientific for guilt. It doesn't need evidence, only accusation.

Pedophilia is psuedo-science. I didn't see you challenge me if your so damn sure of your words.

Phoney outrage? Ha! Accusations that have no basis lead to guilt. That is genuine pseudo-science.

 

Clinton had all rights to get his dicked sucked by anyone willing to suck it. Who did this harm? No one. Not only is cunnilingus a harmless activity, but wake up, so is fellatio.

 

No they found him guilty because he did in fact had sex with an 11 year old who was in his charge as her babysitter. Based on what you've said it was even premeditated. The more you discuss this the worse it sounds and the more one has to wonder why you are trying to excuse his behavior.

Look its pretty obvious by now you are a pedophile and you aren't succeeding in convincing non pedophiles it is ok or your "friend" was unduly prosecuted.

You sound exactly like the "not" gay xtians trying to explain how its "normal" for "heterosexual" xtian men to cruise gay bars for sex.

I think one of the key things here is he didn't actually like her as a person. He wasn't looking to marry her. He was just looking to user her and lose her.

 

If he had said "damn straight she sucked me" or even "mind your own business" there would have been no issue except him abusing his position with an underling. But he lied under oath and then like you, tried to redefine what "sex" is.

 

I do understand.

I repeat you can't claim that "he would have still gone to jail" in this case. He actually did the crime and the system worked. Ancientregime is at best merely engaging in idle speculation.

He needs to show cases where a person actually did get convicted because some one accusing him of having sex with her even though he hadn't done so.

 

There are 2 issues from what I understand:
1- Before the blackmail, from what I understand, he hadn't practiced any form of 'sex'; oral or penetrative. The girl told his friend that if he didn't have sex with her (oral I assume), she would say that they did anyway, so he did.

2- His claim that the girl claimed that he had penetrative sex when in fact he only had oral sex with her. ancientregime apparently believes that he wouldn't have gone to jail if she hadn't lied about the type of sex they had. I'm not sure if he's right, but I do happen to know of a case here in Canada where a man who had oral sex with a girl of 12 got probation.

I'll do it:
The Effects of a False Allegation of Child Sexual Abuse on an Intact Middle Class Family

I also found a web site dealing with false sexual abuse cases:
Defending False Allegations of Abuse - Cowling Investigations


lucifers angel's post 43:

I speculated in a subsequent post that if her family member hadn't had her to provide an alliby, perhaps her family member would now be in jail.

 

In most modern societies, such actions can definitely be traumatic for all involved; this is clear in such examples as the romance of Mary Kay Letourneau and Vili Fualaau.

Outside the context of modern societies, I don't believe it need to be harmful, however. Books such as Pedophilia: Biosocial Dimensions get much deeper into the subject of how our society itself can cause the most harm when a sexual taboo is broken.

 

Bullshit. Stop trying to say that the world is flat because you want it to be.

 

Now you are just spewing diarrhea out your mouth.

I did not advocate criminalizing what other people do consensually.

 

I think memory innacuracy would be the wrong concept; I think it would better to say that her memories were altered/changed/distorted. The question is, why.

I guess it's time I reveal something- while I am attracted to women my age or older, I can also find some teens attractive; even if they're below 18 (gasp!). Since I was very young, I realized the taboo there was between age differential relationships when one of the partners was a minor, but it wasn't until I was 21 that I realized just how deeply engrained this was in society and began, like most 'normal' people, to isolate myself from minors in general when it had anything to do with sexuality. My attraction to teens didn't fade, however.

Anyway, skip another 7 years; by this point, my brother knew I could be attracted to teens and wasn't pleased; he himself was only 17, though, so I decided to ask him a few questions. First, I asked him if he found the girls his age to be attractive; he said yes, they were. I then told him:

"So when you get older, does that mean that girls your age will no longer be attractive?"​

Today, ofcourse, he may find 17 year olds to be too immature for his tastes, but perhaps because he still -was- 17 when I asked him that question, he resisted coming to that conclusion and apparently got a little respect for my position.

Here's some good lines from my favourite movie, Memento:

"Memory can change the shape of a room, it can change the colour of a car. And memories can be distorted [emphasis mine]. They're an interpretation, not a record."​

I would in fact argue that they're a record that can be both interpreted and even altered/changed/distorted. What we thought of as attractive in the past can morph into not attractive and apparently does for many people. However, not for everyone. I think why this is would certainly be an interesting question to answer. Another issue is if it should be considered -inherently- bad if some people's attractions remain the same over time, or if it only messes with your life because majorities have decreed it to be so.

 

I don't think merely being attracted to someone below 18 is that immoral.

There is a difference between abusing a prepubescent child and having sex with someone who, though young, is sexually mature and therefore has a sexuality of her own. Say she was 16 or so; that isn't a child any more.

It still sucks though; the power imbalance in such a relationship is not healthy or desirable.

 

I agree with you that there is definitely a difference between a prebubescent and a pubescent child; one can reproduce while the other can't; it stands to reason that one would be more sexual then the other as well.

As to my own actions, I seriously doubt that I've ever had sex with someone who's below 18; I had sex with a hooker once and I didn't ask her her age but I'd be very surprised if she was below 18; I could easily imagine that she might even have been a bit older then me; I was 20. The only other person I had sex with was my former girlfriend, who was 4 years older then me.

These days, however, you don't actually have to have sex with a minor in order to get in trouble. I remember hearing of a teacher who kissed one of his girl students and was apparently fired shortly thereafter. Even hugs have become taboo in some places, especially if it's a male teacher hugging a female student. Judith Levine chronicles that fathers are at times afraid to show too much affection to their daughters for fear that their attentions might be seen in a shady light. This forum has also made it clear that even adolescent 'children' are being punished for making clear that they are sexual creatures, with the punishments for merely sending nude or semi nude pictures via cell phones.

I think that depends on who you ask; I'm sure that Vili Fualaau would vehemently disagree with that assessment; on the other hand, I know that many would agree with you. Many fables involve power imbalances that work out well for all involved; cinderella and snow white are excellent examples. The very concept of the 'damsel in distress' plays up to the idea that a hero, who clearly has more power over a situation then the rescued, saves the day.. and perhaps begins a relationship. As I've said many times in the past, I really think that context matters; in Pedophilia: Biosocial Dimensions, they found what was apparently an almost exact match; a study was done and it was found that virtually the same amount of former minors reported having consensual and enjoyable sexual relationships. I have a feeling that due to the political landscape of these times, the study never bothered to ask if both were related- that is, that the former minors who had consensual relationships found them to be enjoyable, but I think it's relatively safe to assume that this was the case.

In the same book, there was a case where a niece reported having enjoyable sexual experiences with an uncle; that is, until she reported it and was made to feel guilty for enjoying them.

I've heard many many more stories of this nature. Unfortunately, many sites chronicling such things have now dissapeared.

2 big ones that come to mind are:
1- allaboutsex.org, a former site for teens to talk openly about their sexual issues; fortunately, another still remains: Heather Corinna's Scarleteen.

2- logicalreality.com, a former site that dealt with many complex subjects, including things like Iraq and ofcourse the firestorm controversies of youth sexuality and the morality of adult/minor sexual interactions; now all their are are echoes that these sites once existed, such as this post about logicalreality.com:
http://nl.nntp2http.com/naturisme/2003/08/eba080ef971208001c2f52b5ddd631d2.html

There are still a few sites around, but I know of only 2 that are around the size of the ones that have closed; boychat and girlchat; the audience has become fairly narrowcast as well; these sites are virtually exclusively dedicated to people who are attracted to minors. Again, given the political climate these days, it's understandable that they don't allow that anyone chronicles something that could be potentially illegal or encourage anyone to -do- something that's potentially illegal. They generally do believe that the laws should be changed, but there is no agreement as to how they should be changed, which in a way reflects the real world, where the age of consent varies from 12 to 18 in the world.

 

Again, you are having difficulty reading. He was charged for an act and found guilty for an act he didn't do.

How do you know this whole profile is not a devils advocate to stop up coming legislation that will promote pedophilia? How do you know that I just didn't pick this topic because I knew I'd get a super hot debate? How do know I'm not a writer researching a character and this is how I can get into his mind? How do you know I'm not a cop trying to find my next victims? Maybe I'm just this sicko really that really wants to do all the things we are arguing about. Maybe its something I don't want you to know about at all. This is the internet, and you just never know who you are talking to.

Interesting. I hear you could find women in the gay bars, but I just never wanted to be hit on, so I don't go.

No, you got him and her mixed up.

 

He didn't lie under oath. When someone asks you something that is none of your fucking business you don't deserve the truth.