Sex video rocks Indonesia

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Mrs.Lucysnow, Jun 29, 2010.

  1. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Ok so there is this Indonesian pop star named 'Ariel' (Nazril Irham) and I believe two famous female celebrities, who got together and made a sex tape a la 'Pam & Tommy'. These private tapes were stolen from Ariel's home and dispersed all over the internet where millions of decent Indonesians proceeded to watch it in their homes, at work and at schools (so says al jazeera). It was so shocking that the country had to open care centers for young children who were traumatized by all the dirty things that robbed them of their innocence and made their eyes bleed.

    Here's the news video: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2010/06/2010629659279153.html

    Ariel since then has been arrested and charged under Indonesia's anti-porn bill and faces 12 years in the pokey (no pun intended

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    ). The president had to come up and talk to the nation as the streets of Jakarta is over-flowing with protests from the muslim right that would like to see Sharia law introduced to the secular country. The two women are under security protection since they now face death threats. Since the video was privately recorded and not meant for public viewing it technically doesn't fall under the anti-porn law so no one knows how it will proceed.

    Its not surprising that this has stirred the conservative nation into a frenzy but what I cannot understand is why millions of 'conservative' Indonesians were watching the 'contraband' over the internet when they have this 'anti-porn' law. How long do you have to watch a video to know that the cast are shagging?

    Are not the viewers just as guilty as the shaggers who were actually minding their business and enjoying themselves in the privacy of their own homes?

    Stealing the video is a crime I imagine. Shouldn't the viewers have known that they were watching something that is considered 'illegal' in their society? Shouldn't they be looking for the creeps who posted the video over the internet?

    Aren't the public also culpable in this messy affair?

    I just think there is some hypocrisy in making an example of the celebrities and crying out about social morality while millions of the citizens were hungrily downloading the bloody video. Its something I don't understand like extremists who watch south park and then squeal about how insensitive Stone and Parker are for making fun of Muhammed. My first question is why are the very religious watching South Park to begin with.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2010
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  3. baftan ******* Valued Senior Member

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    To begin with, biologically there are curious apes. Other identities (being religious, etc.) follows later. If they want to find a human type justification, they would say "how can we know if we don't watch it?", then you may ask "But your religion forbids watching anything immoral!"... Pointless.

    Don't expect any logic, you can not find any...
     
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  5. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    I understand the curiosity bit. But what really got me about this Indonesian morality drama is the number of people who sort out the video. Children had to be carted off to care centers, people were downloading the video at their work and at their schools. I just find that remarkable since there is already an anti-porn law. I mean they knew that the video would contain sex and they watched it precisely because that is what it was unless of course it was disguised as his new music video (not mentioned but its possible).

    What I want to know is if the public should be considered culpable?

    We have laws against snuff films for example. People who seek out snuff films are considered guilty under the law (not sure what law it is but its there). If you have a law against making and distributing porn then doesn't it follow that its just as illegal to seek it out and watch it? And shouldn't the anti-porn law be aimed at the person who put the video on the net and not the celebrities themselves?
     
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  7. baftan ******* Valued Senior Member

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    They are the "great" people who discovered this immoral activity.

    If these two didn't produce the videos there wouldn't be any material to download in the first place.

    Public? Can you punish public? Can you make an example out of public? No.

    You see, this is not a comparable example. In some Islamic societies, actual death videos are semi-legal. You may rise child-sex video example for instance.

    Shoulda, coulda, woulda... Are you seriously evaluating these societies with the parameters of Western tradition of law and justice? Is it possible? The highest source of law in these societies is Qur'an, a fairytale from 7th century. What do you expect, seriously?
     
  8. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    All of those protesting must have seen the video or how else would they know just how bad it was. Hypocrites they all are I'd say.

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  9. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    @Baftan

    Well if you cannot punish the public then isn't it a sign that the whole ban is ineffective?

    Also the celebrities did make the video but for themselves not for the entire nation to get a peek. I would have thought that the person who stole the thing and put it on the net would be more at fault.

    All right my example may have sucked but I thought the general drift would come across. Basically I feel this to be an example of social hypocrisy, it happens everywhere not just in Indonesia but its a great example of it.

    I am not comparing Indonesia with the West. We have our own sex scandals. Indonesia is a secular country not driven by the Quran. They have a conservative society, I get that. I am asking whether you think that the public are as culpable as those who made the video since they are all aware that the law bans porn?

    @Cosmic

    LOL! I thought the exact same thing.

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  10. baftan ******* Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe they are not protesting what you think; maybe they are protesting the lack of style and action they see in Western porn. Maybe they are protesting the underdeveloped state of local porn...
     
  11. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    You never know , do you...LOL!

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  12. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    But it wasn't 'western porn' the shaggers were locals. What they are protesting is liberal permissive society, or rather the idea that liberal ideals leads to the act in question (shagging more than one person at a time and filming it). Its why they are calling for sharia. One man in the video said that if they had sharia Ariel would be put to death for shagging outside of marriage and that would dissuade anyone else from doing the same thing privately. But since so many people took the time to download the damn thing I think they are all in the same boat, meaning guilt via viewing.
     
  13. Gustav Banned Banned

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    on a somewhat related note...."Sex Tape' Swami Arrested In India". i think i shall thread it so we can discuss it
     
  14. baftan ******* Valued Senior Member

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    I think we are not talking about same Indonesia. You can examine the Preamble of Indonesian constitution. It doesn't sound secular to me:

    http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_Republic_of_Indonesia#Preamble

    And this is a short description on how Islamic law performs in Indonesia:

    http://dwiliz.blogspot.com/

    Things don't work so simple: As you may recall from the video you posted, expected maximum sentence is 12 years. Death penalty is demanded by some radicals. Government has no intention to cause either an international scandal or any credit to radicals; yet it must produce some sort of punishment in terms of protecting the regime. I don't have any hope for these countries for now, maybe future generations will come up with better solutions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2010
  15. Gustav Banned Banned

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    OMG!!

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    According to Contact Music News, the sex tape of Hoang Thuy Linh and her boyfriend which was filmed on Thuy Linh’s cellular phone cam has caused outrage across Vietnam!


    i think i discern a pattern of moral decline across east asia. i shall thread it to investigate the ramifications

    i hope so too!!
     
  16. baftan ******* Valued Senior Member

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    I don't agree with "never" part -never say never- as I couldn't find the video (Oh, my search attempts are exposed). That's why I said "Maybe"...
     
  17. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Hmmm. Okay I am going to check out your links before responding. I understand Indonesia to be a secular society but maybe that is a matter of definition so I will get back to you on that one.

    Outside of the last sentence I think your view on what the government has to do rings with the truth. I'm not sure if Indonesia is lost as its so vast in terms of culture and issues within the region. I don't really believe that they want to turn into a religious State but I could be wrong. Like I said I will read your links and then respond fully.

    By the way I googled and found these: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...gA&q=ariel peter pan's video download&spell=1

    Maybe you can download it from there. i don't know but maybe it was removed because of all the ruckus.
     
  18. Gustav Banned Banned

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  19. baftan ******* Valued Senior Member

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    It didn't work, anyway I found it somewhere else without downloading.

    By the way cosmic;

    I was right, lack of enough action...
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2010
  20. DarkFox13 Registered Senior Member

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    ummmm, uhhhh, what to say, what to say......?
     
  21. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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    They have to do that. Imagine what would happen if they *didn't* cart children off to care centers. The children would nonetheless grow up normal and well adjusted...which would call into question why they need the harsh moral rules in the first place, and might lead to a weakening of those rules (especially if this sort of challenge to the rules is repeated).

    By hammering home to children that they have been traumatized though, the conservatives hope: (A) some of them will believe it, and (B) some will believe that, when they grow up normal and well adjusted, that it was the intervention and treatment that made them so. Thus, the hope is, those two groups will say to themselves "Phew! I dodged a bullet when exposed to that immoral and very watchable video, I need to be on guard to protect my own children from that sort of thing, as my parents protected me."

    Everyone reacts that way to these sorts of rules. Parents were convinced that Jazz was ruining the young minds, then Rock & Roll was destroying children, then Elvis's hip gyrations would turn them into perverts, and more recently that "sexting" will be the ruin of America's youth, et hoc genus omne.

    Conservatives in Indonesia just expect the state to arrest people who challenge their moral precepts.
     
  22. Emil Valued Senior Member

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    Than in heaven with these believers,better with other atheists in hell. :wallbang:
     
  23. delhiteen Registered Member

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    nice posts and article for the ......
     

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