Senator murdered with 'accident'

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Fukushi, Oct 25, 2002.

  1. jps Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,872
    just my impression

    No, I can't substantiate it. Its just my impression. Even if I was incorrect in stating that every plane crash since 9/11 was reported as terrorism, I still find it strange that this particular crash was immediately assumed to be caused by the weather given the circumstances
     
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  3. jandt remlik Registered Senior Member

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    160
    well done, jps

    Excellent observation. Since 9/11, even a car backfiring has been considered terrorism until it is ruled out. The fact that the media reported this as weather related from the begining, gave away the scam.
    The machinations of the gangster state are always understood through such observations as yours, good job.
     
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  5. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

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    What circumstances, and who is making the assumption?

    The National Transportation Safety Board has sent a Go Team to the site, and they will certainly examine the possibility that weather may have been a factor, particularly since other pilots reported icing conditions in the area. But as far as I have heard, no cause has been determined as yet.

    Peace.
     
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  7. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

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    5,331
    ...merely demonstrates is the media's lack of concern for reporting accurately as they pander to an audience that only wants sensationalism.
    ...falling ever deeper into the Conspiracy Crevasse.

    Peace.
     
  8. jandt remlik Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    160
    weather a factor from moment one

    Here you go

    http://www.thewbalchannel.com/news/...ak&ts=T&tmi=bal_natlbreak_2836_12400110252002

    'The plane crashed at 10:22 a.m. CDT, The Associated Press reported. The National Weather Service said the plane crashed in freezing drizzle, with light snow and light fog. The St. Louis County Sheriff's Office says the plane crashed about 7 miles east of the airport in Eveleth. Rescue personnel are at the scene. '
     
  9. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,331
    So where does your theory of murder most foul come into play?


    Edit to add:

    An interesting compendium from the same link you provided:
    • Oct. 16, 2000: Missouri Gov. Mel Carnahan (D), his son and an aide killed when their small plane crashes in bad weather in Missouri. Carnahan was running for the U.S. Senate.
    • April 3, 1996: Commerce Secretary Ron Brown (D), killed when an Air Force jet crashes into a mountain in Croatia, killing all 35 aboard.
    • April 19, 1993: South Dakota Gov. George Mickelson, killed along with seven other people when their state-owned plane crashes in a rainstorm near Dubuque, Iowa.
      *
    • April 5, 1991: Former Sen. John Tower, R-Texas, and NASA astronaut Manley "Sonny" Carter Jr. among those killed in the crash of an Atlantic Southeast Airlines flight near Brunswick, Ga.
      *
    • April 1, 1991: Sen. John Heinz, R-Pa., killed when his plane collides with a helicopter over Merion, Pa.
      *
    • Aug. 13, 1989: Rep. Larkin Smith, R-Miss., killed along with his pilot when their Cessna 177 crashes into the DeSoto National Forest in Mississippi.
    • Aug. 7, 1989: Rep. Mickey Leland, a Texas Democrat who chaired the House Select Committee on Hunger, killed when plane crashes during a trip to inspect relief efforts in Ethiopia.
    • Sept. 1, 1983: Rep. Larry McDonald, D-Ga., killed when Korean Air Lines Flight 007 was shot down by a Russian fighter jet.
    • Aug. 2, 1978: Richard Obenshain, Republican candidate for Senate from Virginia, killed when plane crashes near Richmond, Va. John Warner, now top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, was picked to run in his place.
    • Dec. 8, 1972: Rep. George W. Collins, D-Ill., killed when his plane crashes on approach to Midway Airport in Chicago. His wife, Cardiss, succeeded him in office.
    • Oct. 16, 1972: House Majority Leader Hale Boggs, D-La., and Rep. Nick Begich, D-Alaska, killed when their plane disappears over Alaska. Boggs was succeeded in office by his wife, Liddy.
    Looks to me like plane crashes happen all the time... but I guess you would read these statistics and find that each party retaliates against the other by knocking off a member every now and again (and in the case of Larry McDonald, Republican solicitation of KGB assistance is readily apparent).

    Peace.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2002
  10. jandt remlik Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    160
    a common vehicle for assassination

    In fact, some of the examples you list were indeed acts of the same nature.........




    Was Paul Wellstone Murdered?

    By Michael I. Niman, AlterNet
    October 28, 2002

    Paul Wellstone was the only progressive in the U.S. Senate. Mother Jones magazine once described him as, "The first 1960s radical elected to the U.S. senate." He was also the last. Since defeating incumbent Republican Rudy Boschowitz 12 years ago in a grassroots upset, Wellstone emerged as the strongest, most persistent, most articulate and most vocal Senate opponent of the Bush administration.


    In a senate that is one heartbeat away from Republican control, Wellstone was more than just another Democrat. He was often the lone voice standing firm against the status-quo policies of both the Democrats and the Republicans. As such, he earned the special ire of the Bush administration and the Republican Party, who made Wellstone's defeat that party's number one priority this year.


    Various White House figures made numerous recent campaign stops in Minnesota to stump for the ailing campaign of Wellstone's Republican opponent, Norm Coleman. Despite being outspent and outgunned, however, polls show that Wellstone's popularity surged after he voted to oppose the Senate resolution authorizing George Bush to wage war in Iraq. He was pulling ahead of Coleman and moving toward a victory that would both be an embarrassment to the Bush administration and to Democratic Quislings such as Hillary Clinton who voted to support "the president."


    Then he died.


    Wellstone now joins the ranks of other American politicians who died in small plane crashes. Another recent victim was Missouri's former Democratic governor, Mel Carnahan, who lost his life in 2000, three weeks before Election Day, during his Senatorial race against John Ashcroft. Carnahan went on to become the first dead man to win a Senatorial race, humiliating and defeating the unpopular Ashcroft posthumously. Ashcroft, despite his unpopularity, went on to be appointed Attorney General by George W. Bush. Investigators determined that Carnahan's plane went down due to "poor visibility."


    Carnahan was the second Missouri politician to die in a small plane crash. The first was Democratic Representative Jerry Litton, whose plane crashed the night he won the Democratic nomination for senate in 1976. His Republican opponent ultimately captured the seat from his successor in November.


    While an article in the New York Times on Saturday pointed out the danger politicians face due to their heavy air travel schedules, the death of a senator or member of Congress is still relatively rare, with only one other sitting U.S. Senator, liberal Republican John Heinz, dying in a plane crash since World War II. Heinz, who entered office as an outspoken opponent of the Vietnam War, later emerged as a strong proponent of health care, social services, public transportation and the environment. He also urged reconciliation with Cuba. He died when the landing gear on his small plane failed to function, and a helicopter dispatched to survey the problem crashed into his plane.


    One former senator, John Tower, also died in a small plane crash. Tower was best known as the chair of the Tower Commission, which investigated the Reagan/Bush era Iran/Contra scandal.


    Another member of a prominent government commission who died in a small plane crash was former Democratic representative and House Majority Leader Hale Boggs. Boggs was best known as one of the seven members of the Warren Commission, which investigated the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. The commission found that Lee Harvey Oswald was acting alone when he killed the president. Boggs, it turns out, had "strong doubts" that Oswald acted alone, but went along with the commission findings. Later, in 1971 and 1972, he went public with his doubts. He was presumed dead after the small plane carrying him and Democratic Representative Nicholas Begich disappeared in 1972.


    Texas Democratic Representative Mickey Leland also died in a plane crash. In his case, the six-term member of Congress and outspoken advocate of sanctions against the apartheid government of South Africa, died while traveling in Ethiopia. Another American politician to die overseas in a plane crash was the Clinton administration's Commerce Secretary, Ronald Brown, whose plane went down in the Balkans.


    Anyone familiar with my work knows that I'm certainly not a conspiracy theorist. But to be honest, I know I wasn't alone in my initial reaction at this week's horrible and tragic news: that being my surprise that Wellstone had lived this long. Perhaps it's just my anger and frustration at losing one of the few reputable politicians in Washington, but I also felt shame. Shame for not writing in my column, months ago, that I felt that Paul Wellstone's life, more so than any other politician in Washington, was in danger. I felt that such speculation was unprofessional and would ultimately undermine my credibility. In the end, my own self-interest triumphed, and I never put my concerns into print. Neither did any other mainstream journalist, though I know of many who shared my concern.


    When I heard Wellstone's plane went down, I immediately thought of Panamanian General Omar Torrijos, who in 1981 thumbed his nose at the Reagan/Bush administration and threatened to destroy the Panama Canal in the event of a U.S. invasion. Torrijos died shortly thereafter when the instruments in his plane failed to function upon takeoff. Panamanians speculated that the U.S. was involved in the death of the popular dictator, who was replaced by a U.S. intelligence operative, Manuel Noreiga, who previously worked with George Bush Senior.


    There is no indication today that Wellstone's death was the result of foul play. What we do know, however, is that Wellstone emerged as the most visible obstacle standing in the way of a draconian political agenda by an unelected government. And now he is conveniently gone. For our government to maintain its credibility at this time, we need an open and accountable independent investigation involving international participation into the death of Paul Wellstone. Hopefully we will find out, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that this was indeed an untimely accident. For the sake of our country, we need to know this.


    Dr. Michael I. Niman teaches journalism and media studies at Buffalo State College.
     
  11. John MacNeil Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    345
    Requiring physical evidence to prove a case in court is required, but it is not required to form belief. FDR and his cronies were the ones who instigated the war with Japan, not the other way around, as is commonly believed. But the evidence for that didn't surface for 55 year, long after the culprits were dead. That is why the corporate/government has a time limit for keeping knowledge secret.

    A key Senator dying two week before an election might be coincidence once, but if it happens again two week before the next election, in the same manner, then you can be sure that the corporate/government was involved. They picked that time because it would be virtually impossible for anyone to mount a successful campaign against their candidate in the little time remaining before the election. In the last election they must have been dumbfounded when their plan went awry and their candidte lost to a dead guy. So what did they do? They appointed their loser to an office that was far more powerful than the one they thought he would have won when they killed his opponent. They did that as a show of braggadocio to show the world that they were going to get their way, no matter what.

    Most people are taken in by propaganda and they believe their corporate/government are the good guys, because they are constantly bombarded by the corporate/government's propaganda machine, which is the national press, radio, television, newspapers, and now the internet. They don't understand the implications of "New World Order" or "Shadow Government" because they have been denied real information for so long or because they are not sophisticated enough to sift through the chaff and see what's really going on.

    The corporate/governments are consolidating power and they don't think anyone can stop them now, which is why they are so brazen of late. The Russians gassed their own people rather than concede a single point and the U.S. poisoned some of their own people with anthrax to make a point. The power mongers are jockying for position and they will trample anyone who gets in their way. They will go so far as to mobilize the world for a phony world war on terrorism and use that as a cover for their ambition. The people who call others "conspiracy theorists" for recognizing and speaking out about what's transpiring are correct and blind to reality all in the same statement. They are the ones who will wake up shaking their heads after the "New World Order" is a fait accompli.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2002
  12. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,331
    How? On your say-so?
    The mysterious "they".
    If you are familiar with my posts, you are aware that I am not duped by my government. Are you duped by yours? Despite the fact that I am aware that the United States government is thoroughly capable of morally repugnant actions, you will have demonstrate something concrete to support your claims in order to start me down the road you are apparently on.
    Really? Can you demonstrate this to be so?
    There's a null output if I've ever seen one.

    Peace.

    __________________
    Youth is the first victim of war - the first fruit of peace.
    It takes 20 years or more of peace to make a man;
    it takes only 20 seconds of war to destroy him.
    • -- King Boudewijn I, King of Belgium (1934-1993)
     
  13. John MacNeil Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    345
    Yes, on my say so, goofyfish. Mine and anyone else's who knows what is really going on. The U.S. corporate/government is responsible for needlessly killing several million people during world war two and another several million in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. Plus several more million if you count up all the casualties from all the other wars they started in the twentieth century. Now they are making a world war in which they openly state that nuclear weapons would be used by them if they felt threatened. Well, if they get into using nuclear weapons then their opponent's nuclear weapons will fly right over where I am living and you can be sure the U.S. will be trying to shoot them down over Canada and not over Washington. That puts the lives of my loved ones directly at risk and that means that I am directly involved and I will hold all those stupid powermongers and warmongers responsible.

    The U.S. corporate/government and their sycophants have proven their evilness over and over again. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt as would be required in a court of law. They have shown that they will kill millions of people for the most petty of reasons and therefore they must prove their worth if they are to be considered decent human beings. Waiting for a nuclear holocaust to happen before we are allowed to berate them is not an option. And it is not a "mysterious they" at all. All of those clowns are well known, whether they are in the corporate or the government sector.

    The anthrax that was used in Senator Daschle's office and the other places was from a government lab. It was a particular strain that could be traced directly, and was, and was reported on the news, including CNN. Then that news item was dropped and not pursued. In the government labs where they make anthrax the video surveillance is full coverage, more so than in a bank. You have to sign in and sign out. They know exactly who is where at all time, including washrooms, and they know what they are doing. No one could just "shoplift" some anthrax and get away undetected.

    Many people are blind to reality and they don't know much about history. They believe what the government tells them because that is an easy way to get on in life. Many of those people will beat the patriotic drum even if they don't know anything about either side of the issue. There is no shortage of those kind of people, but however much they defend the corporate/government's position, or however much they denounce people for utilizing their right to speak out against tyranny, they will never change the minds of people who know right from wrong.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2002
  14. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,331
    If you "know", please lay out your evidence in a concise manner, and we'll review it together.
    See the difference? Those were (once confirmed for accuracy) facts. Felt kind of good, didn't it? But there is nothing conspiratorial about them, so how do they help your arguments?
    Nice words, John, but what are you doing about it besides ranting on the internet?

    To the rest of it I say, "whatever." You have no facts for your position, and in your apparently overdeveloped state of global paranoia, cannot be reasonably expected to understand why they are important. I certainly don't have the stamina that those who deal with your circular reasoning in the hard science forums have. As such, I bid you well, and we'll just agree to disagree.

    Peace.

    __________________
    Youth is the first victim of war - the first fruit of peace.
    It takes 20 years or more of peace to make a man;
    it takes only 20 seconds of war to destroy him.
    • -- King Boudewijn I, King of Belgium (1934-1993)
     
  15. Markx Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    970
    An Interesting Request!

    Sources: Cheney was asked not to attend Wellstone service
    Bush hails Wellstone as 'deep-hearted man'
    Tuesday, October 29, 2002 Posted: 5:24 PM EST (2224 GMT)

    MINNEAPOLIS, Minnesota (CNN) -- Citing security considerations and some anger over the politics surrounding the Senate race in Minnesota, the family of the late Sen. Paul Wellstone has asked that Vice President Dick Cheney not attend Tuesday night's memorial service, sources told CNN.

    Meanwhile, Democratic party sources said former Vice President Walter Mondale will be named Wednesday as Wellstone's replacement on the November 5 ballot and that Mondale will appear before party leaders to launch his abbreviated campaign. (Full text here)

    Moderator Edit - Link to full article
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2002
  16. jandt remlik Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    160
    How the bush family really feels

    Obviously, they hate all the policies Wellstone worked towards and it is sickening to hear dubya spew his condolences.......


    CounterPunch

    October 25, 2002

    Pappy Bush on Paul Wellstone:
    "Who Is This Chickenshit?"
    by WAYNE MADSEN

    Before we all get sucked into George W. Bush's eulogies of the late Minnesota Senator Paul Wellstone let us not forget what his father, Bush 41, called the Senator at a White House reception for newly-elected members of Congress in 1991.

    Wellstone, who ran on a progressive platform, did not think Bush 41 cared one wit about education, health care, and workers' safety issues.

    So when Wellstone met Bush in a typical White House pro forma reception line, he used the occasion to urge Bush on three different occasions to spend more time on issues like education and cautioning him against the Persian Gulf War. Of course, Bush was more concerned about fighting the war against Iraq (sound familiar?) and could care less about Wellstone's issues. (Full text here)

    Moderator Edit - Link to full article
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2002
  17. John MacNeil Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    345
    Markx,

    You should have posted a link to the first article you referenced about Cheney getting the brush off from the Wellstone family, so I wouldn't have to wade through all the crappy writing of the CNN articles and still not find what you were talking about. I went to a more professional source and found the pertinent information so I'll link it below, along with another short article written by one of Mr. Wellstone's staffers;

    www.commondreams.org/views02/1029-02.htm

    www.commondreams.org/views02/1029-03.htm

    What is the point that you are trying to make, goofyfish? My point is that the U.S. corporate/government killed over ten million people, that we know of, in the last half century and that makes them prime suspects in a case that looks as suspicious as does the crash of Senator Wellstone's plane.

    Also, I don't understand by your brief reply about what evidence you are wishing to see. Are you talking about U.S. culpability in actions that are meant to undermine democracy and increase their hold on power?
     
  18. machaon Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    733
    First response

    My first response was that They (with a capitol T) would not have the audacity to assasinate a senator. However, as I lay in bed cursing the fact that I have an IQ above 70, I realize that I can not dismiss the very likely possibility that a murder has taken place. Paranoid, mabye. Living in a world with predictable patterns, most definately.
     
  19. Fukushi -meta consciousness- Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,231
    I know it seemz far fetched sometimes

    but after years of research into the audassities and conspirecies wich already came to light> it's just matter of taking the right neural pathways to see to whom's advantage it is. amongst other criteria.

    truth is a sad sober truth . but it's like the financial market's> the don't have a moral of what is right or wrong. It just is a RAT Race.

    greetz. 'nd sleep tight
     

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